What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
-
See Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 38-39. Nobody consider this as a lexicon of Classic Arabic. It incorporates lexical meanings of Modren Arabic, not the same language. The Classic Arabic as a spoken language is dead, means no body speaks and understands it. Yes even natives. However, the language is preserved well in script. Please try to understand this and do not try to put meanings to the words that Rab did not intend.
Now tell me what grammatical rules are applied to root to make it . Peace and love.
Badar
uuh I gave you the grammatical rules.....broken plural / & extended alif
-
I am sorry but incorrect. Look here EH Palmer as a referance for broken plural rules. Tell me, how can one construct from to and in the end?
http//books.google.com/books?id=gdHjvHF-E2kC&pg=PA377&dq=arabic+grammar+by+Edward+H+palmer#PPA110,M1
As for , I do not know what relavance it has see below from Lane's Lexiocon it is used for lengthening only
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000039.pdf
Peace and love,
Badar
-
I am sorry but incorrect. Look here EH Palmer as a referance for broken plural rules. Tell me, how can one construct from to and in the end?
http//books.google.com/books?id=gdHjvHF-E2kC&pg=PA377&dq=arabic+grammar+by+Edward+H+palmer#PPA110,M1
As for , I do not know what relavance it has see below from Lane's Lexiocon it is used for lengthening only
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000039.pdf
Peace and love,
Badar
Assalaam Alaikum @Badar
Sorry, But I am NOT 'incorrect'.
If I may refer you to Dr. Abdullah Abbas Nadwi as a 'credible' and 'reputable' resource "Learn The Language of The Holy Quran' page 176 & 180 discusses 'broken plural' /
Another reputable and informative resource the 'ARABIC ONLINE' website, chapter 'Irregular Plural Nouns' http//arabic.tripod.com/Nouns5.htm
Biographies
"Dr. Abdullah Abbas Nadwi initial publication of "Learn The Language of The Holy Quran' in 1989. Its author is not only an Alim of great eminence, a graduate of Nadwah al-Ulama', Lucknow, India but also holds a Ph.D in Arabic Studies. He is Professor of Arabic Literature at Umm al-Qura' University, Makkah Mukarramah and Special Education Consultant to Sheikh Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi and to Nadwat al Ulama."
E.H. Palmer http//chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/history/seminar/palmer.htm
'A Grammar of the Arabic Language' By Edward Henry Palmer, Published in 1874 -
I am so glad that you did not get upset. Thanks for bringing these referances. I am busy this morning but will get back into linguistic discussion this afternoon. I still have several concerns about this and I will try to express as best I could. I purposely ignored William Wright so I could see what referances you are using. By the way Wright seems to follow same line of thinking as you are citing. Thanks again and may he bless your efforts to utmost.
Badar
-
I am so glad that you did not get upset. Thanks for bringing these referances. I am busy this morning but will get back into linguistic discussion this afternoon. I still have several concerns about this and I will try to express as best I could. I purposely ignored William Wright so I could see what referances you are using. By the way Wright seems to follow same line of thinking as you are citing. Thanks again and may he bless your efforts to utmost.
Badar
Assalaam Alaikum Badar
Why would I get upset? We are having a great discussion. We are learning here. I look forward to your next post.
-
Thanks that is the spirit for learning. This word is proving to be more difficult than even Allah. Please read this link from Lane starting from left column at bottom and middle one. While, I absorb it and explore more on this word. Peace and love.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000211.pdf
Badar
-
Thanks that is the spirit for learning. This word is proving to be more difficult than even Allah. Please read this link from Lane starting from left column at bottom and middle one. While, I absorb it and explore more on this word. Peace and love.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000211.pdf
Badar
Badar, Im familiar with Lanes, but that doesnt address the grammatical morphology, we have addressed that. Lanes is a lexical compilation, NOT a grammatical reference.
Brotha we cant change Allah's meanings and grammatical structure.
has no feminine marker, thus its masculine, its again a 'broken plural', denoted by the after meaning 'Men'
-
Brother you keep claming that has no feminine opposite. However, I posted this link from Lane for you to see that in a saying of Aisheh a feminine opposite is given as well . He further discusses that , can be used to indicate BOTH "A MAN AND HIS WIFE". This means that this word could also be used as common gender. It has been assigned this concept of only meaning of just man later. It's lexical meaning is "one who has been born and afterwards attained puberty". I will post the true meanings of 41 soon. Thanks for your help. May one who is not illah bless you more.
Badar
-
Brother you keep claming that has no feminine opposite. However, I posted this link from Lane for you to see that in a saying of Aisheh a feminine opposite is given as well . Although, Lane rejects that as not authentic. He further discusses that , can be used to indicate BOTH "A MAN AND HIS WIFE". This means that this word has common gender, nor man neither woman. It has been assigned this concept of only meaning of man later. It's lexical meaning is "one who has been born and afterwards attained puberty". I will post the true meanings of 41 soon. Thanks for your help. May one who is not illah bless you more.
Badar
Badar, Its obvious you do NOT wish to accept the grammatical morphology of the word . Again it CANNOT be FEMININE because there is no FEMININE MARKER. Secondly, the broken PLURAL denotes the word is MASCULINE, meeting these criteria, the word ALONE means 'Men'
You need to research these terms .....broken plural / & extended alif
Thirdly, I already gave the CORRECT meaning of Sura 41.....again
and baththa minhuma rijalan katheeran wa nisa'a /
min-huma is a dual, masculine and feminine pronoun reference that governs and defines rijalan / and nisa'a / as Men and Women, respectively.
rijalan / is a broken plural, masculine
Morphological Definition
Relating to or concerned with the formation of admissible words in a language.
The branch of linguistics that deals with word structure and with functional changes in the forms of words, such as inflection and compounding .
A study and description of word formation (as inflection, derivation, and compounding) in language
The system of word-forming elements and processes in a language
Lexical Definition of a term, also known as the dictionary definition, is the meaning of the term in common usage. As its other name implies, this is the sort of definition one is likely to find in the dictionary. A lexical definition is usually the type expected from a request for definition, and it is generally expected that such a definition will be stated as simply as possible in order to convey information to the widest audience.
Note that a lexical definition is descriptive, reporting actual usage within speakers of a language, and changes with changing usage of the term, rather than prescriptive, which would be to stick with a version regarded as "correct" regardless of drift in accepted meaning. They tend to be inclusive, attempting to capture everything the term is used to refer to, and as such are often too vague for many purposes.
When the breadth or vagueness of a lexical definition is unacceptable, a precising definition or a stipulative definition is often used.
-
Brother, you are not following my point. Rajul, can be used as common gender. Arabic has lot of other words that can be used as common gender. Nothing to do with the Morphological contruct of the word. Furthermore, you have yet to give a referance for the your claim that is a derivative of from an authentic Arabic lexicon. One that is used now as a word meaning woman has a Medda on the Alif, which this Nisa does not. Peace and love.
Badar
-
Brother, you are not following my point. Rajul, can be used as common gender. Arabic has lot of other words that can be used as common gender. Nothing to do with the Morphological contruct of the word. Furthermore, you have yet to give a referance for the your claim that is a derivative of from an authentic Arabic lexicon. One that is used now as a word meaning woman has a Medda on the Alif, which this Nisa does not. Peace and love.
Badar
Badar, The discussion is regarding the grammatical construct and rules that govern the Quranic term's rijalan / and nisa'a / NOT a Lexical reference defining the common linguistic 'usage' of a word.
rijalan / and nisa'a / are Quranic terms NOT linguistic terms
The reference and meaning of rijalan / and nisa'a / is determined by Allah, subhaana wata ala NOT by Lanes Lexicon
Im not sure why you keep stating I have 'not' given you a reference that supports my position, when I have several times!
Again, may refer you to Dr. Abdullah Abbas Nadwi as a 'credible' and 'reputable' resource "Learn The Language of The Holy Quran' page 176 & 180 discusses 'broken plural' /
Another reputable and informative resource the 'ARABIC ONLINE' website, chapter 'Irregular Plural Nouns' http//arabic.tripod.com/Nouns5.htm
Biography
"Dr. Abdullah Abbas Nadwi initial publication of "Learn The Language of The Holy Quran' in 1989. Its author is not only an Alim of great eminence, a graduate of Nadwah al-Ulama', Lucknow, India but also holds a Ph.D in Arabic Studies. He is Professor of Arabic Literature at Umm al-Qura' University, Makkah Mukarramah and Special Education Consultant to Sheikh Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi and to Nadwat al Ulama."
-
Brother, you are not following my point. Rajul, can be used as common gender. Arabic has lot of other words that can be used as common gender. Nothing to do with the Morphological contruct of the word. Furthermore, you have yet to give a referance for the your claim that is a derivative of from an authentic Arabic lexicon. One that is used now as a word meaning woman has a Medda on the Alif, which this Nisa does not. Peace and love.
Badar
Last point Rajul / Rijal is an ACTIVE PARTICIPLE, it has no gender!
It requires inflection for gender, number and case either by use of a preposition that precedes the participle or some type of pronoun affixed to the participle or just a common noun.
The active participle behaves like an adjective, agrees in gender and number with the noun it defines
-
The active participle behaves like an adjective, agrees in gender and number with the noun it defines
This is true as far as this participle is singular. What if it is a plural describing a group of both genders? Would it be feminine or masculine? How about "mu'minuun " and "kaafiruun " which are both participles? Does the qur'aan speak of men only when mentioning them?
-
This is true as far as this participle is singular. What if it is a plural describing a group of both genders? Would it be feminine or masculine? How about "mu'minuun " and "kaafiruun " which are both participles? Does the qur'aan speak of men only when mentioning them?
"He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof. and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss). Therein will they have abundance withoutmeasure.
Man AAamila sayyiatan fala yujza illa mithlaha waman AAamila salihan min thakarin / those who remember;male aw ontha / females wa huwa muminun faolaika yadkhuloona aljannata yurzaqoona feeha bighayri hisabin
hum (them) kafiruun / , seems to be consistent throughout the Quran.
-
hum (them) kafiruun / , seems to be consistent throughout the Quran.
Is this your response? Of course it is consistant throughout the quraan!! Who are "hum they"? And please no cut and paste, no grammar or beating behind the bush. Simple answer will do, thank you.
And please address my other quetion too (above conditions apply, too).
(I simply deleted the first part of the post because it's completely off point and does not address either question) -
Salaam MTR
Verse 2239
Questions
-Who is being addressed here?
-How do you translate this verse?Assalaam Alaikum Samia
Before we begin the 'quiz show', If I may suggest.
Samia, we are attempting to 'share' our perceptions that Allah is indicating to us and in doing so it develops a sharing of knowledge and creates a learning dialogue.
I have seen in numerous threads, the dialogue digressing into egotistical rants and minutia. Personally, I avoid those confrontations.
I have certainly gained in understanding when mutual respect and knowledge sharing is maintained.
Questions
-Who is being addressed here? You Samia, You khiftum farijalan /
-How do you translate this verse? Personally, I dont normally 'translate' ayahs in a discussion regarding a particular ayah. Its really not that important to me, the translation. The Quran will define itself. -
hum / them
tum / you
kum / you
ALL Plural, EVERYONE male and female -
Is this your response? Of course it is consistant throughout the quraan!! Who are "hum they"? And please no cut and paste, no grammar or beating behind the bush. Simple answer will do, thank you.
And please address my other quetion too (above conditions apply, too).
(I simply deleted the first part of the post because it's completely off point and does not address either question)Assalaam Alaikum Samia
I believe unfortunately the dialogue is beginning to digress, thus I will reserve the right to respond. But before I take that position I wanted to comment briefly about a previous request.
Samia, You asked a question....
"How about "mu'minuun " and "kaafiruun " which are both participles? Does the qur'aan speak of men only when mentioning them?"
I responded with this ayah from the Quran....
"He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof. and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss). Therein will they have abundance withoutmeasure.
Man AAamila sayyiatan fala yujza illa mithlaha waman AAamila salihan min thakarin / those who remember;male aw ontha / females wa huwa muminun faolaika yadkhuloona aljannata yurzaqoona feeha bighayri hisabin
Samia, the ayah addresses your inquiry, specifically and directly. Allah is stating that Male and Female, through their active behavior as Mu'minuun will be blessed with paradise.
Not that it really means anything, but Im not sure how you determine that my response was "off point and does not address either question"
Again, I will reserve the right to respond to any post and will be somewhat discriminative regarding who and when I respond.
Salaam Alaikum