How can we prove that the Quran is the word of GOD and not Muhammad??
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Islam is the largest religion in the world not Christianity.
http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080331-AP-islam-largest.html
http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3653800.ecealso just google largest religion in the world
Salam,
ArnabIslam has overtaken Catholicism, not Christianity.
From your second link
However Christians as a whole, including Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants and Anglicans make up 33 per cent of the world population.
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I wouldn't expect God to use such flawed arguments in support of the book he has supposedly authored. What does it mean exactly when the Quran says "a surah like it"? The author of the Quran fails to provide the conditions of the challenge, and a means to judge whether the challenge has been met. In the end all it comes down to is subjective opinion on whether the challenger had been able to produce "a surah like it". If the author is really God he should be able to come up with a better argument for the Quran's authenticity.
You expect God to explain to you in detail what each and every surah stands for and then explain how it?s been relevant throughout all times then how its stands out from the rest of the words and then ask you to believe in Him ) Why don?t you explain to God what better ideas He could have used ! maybe this will help you to expose more of the tricks used in the Qur'an hmm
I don't quite understand why being unable to read or write makes it so difficult for an individual to come up with descent poetry. All you need is an ability to speak the language well, the scribes can do the writing for you.
I am sure you have all that's required to come up with a "decent poetry", then you too can join the ranks of the gurus sun
Or may be he name dropped Moses and Jesus a lot to make his new religion more attractive to Jews and Christians.
Or maybe you did not bother to find out that Mohammad never wanted the Jews or the Christians to abandon their faith.
Finally btw. even if it?s the quality rather than the quantity that counts in Islam this is still the fasted growing religion of the modern world despite all the negative publicity thrown at it.voodoo
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You expect God to explain to you in detail what each and every surah stands for and then explain how it?s been relevant throughout all times then how its stands out from the rest of the words and then ask you to believe in Him ) Why don?t you explain to God what better ideas He could have used ! maybe this will help you to expose more of the tricks used in the Qur'an hmm
Actually yes I would like god if he exists to explain all these things in detail to me, preferably in person. Back when I prayed I did ask for explanations, but got nothing.
I am sure you have all that's required to come up with a "decent poetry", then you too can join the ranks of the gurus sun
I don't think I'm any good at writing poetry or good prose, but I have read plays and poetry written by other individuals and I preferred it to the Quran.
Or maybe you did not bother to find out that Mohammad never wanted the Jews or the Christians to abandon their faith.
He defiantly wanted them to accept the Quran though didn't he and by default that he was prophet of god. He probably realised that mentioning individuals like Moses would make his new religion more appealing to Jews and Christians.
Finally btw. even if it?s the quality rather than the quantity that counts in Islam this is still the fasted growing religion of the modern world despite all the negative publicity thrown at it.voodoo
Mostly due to the large numbers of children Muslims tend to have.
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Peace WayFinder,
You are falling in a logical fallacy! The burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim, and not proving its negative.
Even in al-qur'an, God does not ask us to "know"/"3lima" that God exists, but to "believe/trust"/"aamana" in God. This is part of the test. If God had given concrete proof of His existence in this life, then there would be no test anymore! There are however hints and signs all over the universe that point to the fact that God exists and that there can only be one God. Suggested starting point would be study of particle physics and quantum mechanics, human anatomy and physiology and biochemistry, and a solid understanding of statistics and laws of probability
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Peace WayFinder,
You are falling in a logical fallacy! The burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim, and not proving its negative.
Even in al-qur'an, God does not ask us to "know"/"3lima" that God exists, but to "believe/trust"/"aamana" in God. This is part of the test. If God had given concrete proof of His existence in this life, then there would be no test anymore! There are however hints and signs all over the universe that point to the fact that God exists and that there can only be one God. Suggested starting point would be study of particle physics and quantum mechanics, human anatomy and physiology and biochemistry, and a solid understanding of statistics and laws of probability )
bravo
Thanks bro for the tip...
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Peace WayFinder,
Just to add to what I said above, whenever confronted with someone who does not believe in existence of God, ask him/her how the universe came to existence, i.e. make a positive statement, and then ask for proof of that positive statement because then the burden of proof is on him/her. That will be the proper way to do it and this way of thinking will eventually lead that person to the truth. For example, if someone says the universe came into existence by random chance, then the burden of proof is on that person to prove that it occurred by random chance. When that person will try to get a proof of that positive statement, he/she will not be able to find any proof of that positive statement and will eventually conclude that it is not true. Then he/she will be forced to make another positive hypothesis, for example the universe was created by multiple gods, and then the burden of proof will be again on that person to prove that positive hypothesis. Eventually all the possibilities other than one God will be ruled out and the eventual conclusion will be that the universe could only have been created by One Higher Power.
The other avenue of thinking is that believing in God is less risky than not believing in God. The prudent logical person will come to the conclusion that if there is no God and the person dies then nothing to worry about but if there is a God then there is a problem! So it is less risky to believe in a God than not to believe in God.
When pursuing these avenues of thought the sincere person will study everything out there including the words of God and science etc. and will eventually be forced to conclude that there is one God and that it is safer to believe in God!
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Peace WayFinder,
Just to add to what I said above, whenever confronted with someone who does not believe in existence of God, ask him/her how the universe came to existence, i.e. make a positive statement, and then ask for proof of that positive statement because then the burden of proof is on him/her. That will be the proper way to do it and this way of thinking will eventually lead that person to the truth. For example, if someone says the universe came into existence by random chance, then the burden of proof is on that person to prove that it occurred by random chance. When that person will try to get a proof of that positive statement, he/she will not be able to find any proof of that positive statement and will eventually conclude that it is not true. Then he/she will be forced to make another positive hypothesis, for example the universe was created by multiple gods, and then the burden of proof will be again on that person to prove that positive hypothesis. Eventually all the possibilities other than one God will be ruled out and the eventual conclusion will be that the universe could only have been created by One Higher Power.
The other avenue of thinking is that believing in God is less risky than not believing in God. The prudent logical person will come to the conclusion that if there is no God and the person dies then nothing to worry about but if there is a God then there is a problem! So it is less risky to believe in a God than not to believe in God.
When pursuing these avenues of thought the sincere person will study everything out there including the words of God and science etc. and will eventually be forced to conclude that there is one God and that it is safer to believe in God!
Salaam,
Thanks for the tips. They are really helpful. May I ask what a positive statement is? This is the definition I got on the internet
Positive statements are statements of facts based on data which can be proved right or wrong.But I don't get how does that place the burden of proof on the other person?
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Actually yes I would like god if he exists to explain all these things in detail to me, preferably in person. Back when I prayed I did ask for explanations, but got nothing.
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Salaam
Well I see someone seeking explanations in search of God and, if you are seriously looking for God, you would find all your answers including why back when you asked for an "explanation" you did not get it then and there ...Patience is one requirement and if you lack patience you cannot expect God to be patient with you.
I don't think I'm any good at writing poetry or good prose, but I have read plays and poetry written by other individuals and I preferred it to the Quran.
It?s good to know you enjoy plays and poetry; I would say life itself is a big play on a bigger stage. It may be good to sit back and see your part in your own life play itself out and then assess what role you would like to play. This may help you to come up with a plan of your own and then you would not say I am no good at writing and maybe then you would think differently.
He defiantly wanted them to accept the Quran though didn't he and by default that he was prophet of god. He probably realised that mentioning individuals like Moses would make his new religion more appealing to Jews and Christians.
What is wrong with saying positive things about others people?s faith? Making positive remarks about others does not necessarily mean you have an ulterior motive to force your views on others ...Start thinking in a positive manner and you may see things from a different point of view.
Mostly due to the large numbers of children Muslims tend to have.
This is one factor but I was talking about ?fastest growing religion? in terms of the number of reverts attracted to the teaching of Qur?an. Most converts were taken aback by the beauty of the Qur?an, whereas many born Muslims, who have lots of Muslim relatives, including lots of children, have been unable to grasp the teachings of the Qur?an. With those Islam has shrunk rather than grown.
Good luck sun -
Peace aalmakto,
By positive statement, I mean a statement which does not contain a negative. For example
A. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction ---> positive statement
B. Iraq does not have weapons of mass desruction ---> negative statementBurden of proof is on the one who claims A, not on one who claims B.
A. Martians exist ---> positive statement
B. Martians do not exist ---> negative statement.Burden of proof is on the one who claims A, not on one who claims B.
A. 80 foot humans and flying horses exist.
B. 80 foot humans and flying horses do not exist.Burden of proof is on the one who claims A, not on one who claims B.
A. Universe came into existence by random chance.
B. Universe did not come into existence by random chance.Burden of proof is on the one who claims A, not on one who claims B.
Hope that helped.
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How about the scientific miracles in the Quran? Muhammad couldn't have known that much about science considering that he was uneducated and lived way before such discoveries were made.
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Peace
OK Bubbles... You seem to be a fascinating guy.... So... you want proof that God does exist...
then..
JUST PROVE ME THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST.
Firstly I'm not a guy
Secondly I never said that god does not exist, I don't know if he does or not. I merely lack belief in god and until I get some kind of evidence for a god, his existence will be as likely to me as that of unicorns or leprechauns since you cannot disprove them either.Tell me who gave you life... and what makes your heart beat on and on....
Have a look at this http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conduction_system_of_the_heart
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Peace WayFinder,
Just to add to what I said above, whenever confronted with someone who does not believe in existence of God, ask him/her how the universe came to existence, i.e. make a positive statement, and then ask for proof of that positive statement because then the burden of proof is on him/her. That will be the proper way to do it and this way of thinking will eventually lead that person to the truth. For example, if someone says the universe came into existence by random chance, then the burden of proof is on that person to prove that it occurred by random chance. When that person will try to get a proof of that positive statement, he/she will not be able to find any proof of that positive statement and will eventually conclude that it is not true. Then he/she will be forced to make another positive hypothesis, for example the universe was created by multiple gods, and then the burden of proof will be again on that person to prove that positive hypothesis. Eventually all the possibilities other than one God will be ruled out and the eventual conclusion will be that the universe could only have been created by One Higher Power.
Why would all the other possibilities besides the idea of one god be ruled out? The only way that you could come to such a conclusion is to show evidence that the idea of one god is more viable and has lots of undeniable evidence that the other possibilities don't have. By the way I'm not a theist and if you asked me where did the universe come I would say it all began at a singularity that for what ever reason began to expand rapidly, beyond that I would just say I don't know.
The other avenue of thinking is that believing in God is less risky than not believing in God. The prudent logical person will come to the conclusion that if there is no God and the person dies then nothing to worry about but if there is a God then there is a problem! So it is less risky to believe in a God than not to believe in God.
When pursuing these avenues of thought the sincere person will study everything out there including the words of God and science etc. and will eventually be forced to conclude that there is one God and that it is safer to believe in God!
The problem here is that you're making the assumption that it is the disbeliever that is punished. What if there is a god that likes skepticism rather than obedience? Or a god that likes people that have an honest belief or disbelief in him rather than a belief out of fear of punishment? There are a multitude of religions past and present, what if following the wrong religion gets this hypothetical god angrier than if one simply disbelieved?
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Salaam
Well I see someone seeking explanations in search of God and, if you are seriously looking for God, you would find all your answers including why back when you asked for an "explanation" you did not get it then and there ...Patience is one requirement and if you lack patience you cannot expect God to be patient with you.
I was seriously looking for god, and like I said I got nothing. I see no reason to continue being patient with a god that in the Quran promises to guide those that seek guidance, but allows me to stray which could have been avoided had he answered my many prayers for explanations and evidence.
It?s good to know you enjoy plays and poetry; I would say life itself is a big play on a bigger stage. It may be good to sit back and see your part in your own life play itself out and then assess what role you would like to play. This may help you to come up with a plan of your own and then you would not say I am no good at writing and maybe then you would think differently.
I think I mentioned before that views on literature are generally subjective, and from my perspective my writing ability isn't very good. To some the Quran is the greatest piece of literature in existence, but others will simply disagree, which is why I don't think the quality of a piece of literature is proof that it has a divine origin.
What is wrong with saying positive things about others people?s faith? Making positive remarks about others does not necessarily mean you have an ulterior motive to force your views on others ...Start thinking in a positive manner and you may see things from a different point of view.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with saying positive things about other peoples faith, but the OP suggested that the mentioning of Moses in the Quran was some sort of evidence that Muhammed was a prophet. I simply suggested that it is not inconceivable for a somewhat intelligent individual to realise that mentioning the name of someone that many people are familiar with would make Islam seem more attractive. I don't think this is definitely the case, just a possibility.
This is one factor but I was talking about ?fastest growing religion? in terms of the number of reverts attracted to the teaching of Qur?an. Most converts were taken aback by the beauty of the Qur?an, whereas many born Muslims, who have lots of Muslim relatives, including lots of children, have been unable to grasp the teachings of the Qur?an. With those Islam has shrunk rather than grown.
Good luck sunDo you have a source for Islam being the fastest growing religion in terms of converts?
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How about the scientific miracles in the Quran? Muhammad couldn't have known that much about science considering that he was uneducated and lived way before such discoveries were made.
Many of the things suggested in the Quran were known back then or are simply too vague. There are also verses in the Quran that from my understanding of the text are scientifically inaccurate. For example, the verse about semen coming from between the backbone and the rib.
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Peace everyone,
Why would all the other possibilities besides the idea of one god be ruled out?
That is the proper logical approach. It is also the way of Abraham )
The only way that you could come to such a conclusion is to show evidence that the idea of one god is more viable and has lots of undeniable evidence that the other possibilities don't have.
Yes there is. Please study astronomy, particle physics, quantum mechanics, human anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry, and statistics and laws of probability. By study, I mean take a university course, not just skimp articles off imam google )
By the way I'm not a theist and if you asked me where did the universe come I would say it all began at a singularity that for what ever reason began to expand rapidly, beyond that I would just say I don't know.
How did the singularity come into existence? What was the reason it began to expand rapidly? Who determined the precise force of the big bang, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise force between protons and neutrons in an atom, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise force between electrons and the nucleus, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise force between the quarks, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise vibration of the energy strings which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise value of Planck's constant, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of universe? What are the odds of all these precise values being what they are by random chance alone?
WHO IS THE OBSERVER THAT CAUSES THE EXISTENCE OF UNIVERSE TO BE POSSIBLE? Without this external observer, the whole universe would collapse in a nano-second! (The Princeton interpretation of the Copenhagen phenomenon)
http//books.google.com/books?id=WEM4hqxJ-xYC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=princeton+interpretation+observer&source=bl&ots=1Vd6LaD_f8&sig=aibmsYnM3XZ2qPSH77Ry7UwI8mU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
The problem here is that you're making the assumption that it is the disbeliever that is punished. What if there is a god that likes skepticism rather than obedience? Or a god that likes people that have an honest belief or disbelief in him rather than a belief out of fear of punishment? There are a multitude of religions past and present, what if following the wrong religion gets this hypothetical god angrier than if one simply disbelieved?
Following the wrong religion is disbelieving. Following anything other than the absolute truth is disbelieving.
What if the assumption that the disbeliever is punished is true? What if hell really exists? No problem for the other scenarios but what if God exists and disbelievers will be punished in hell for choosing disbelief out of their own free-will? Would that not be a big risk one takes when one does not believe in existence of God and existence of hell? What would be the safer approach?
Believing in God and the Last Day, and doing good deeds would be the safest approach )
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Peace everyone,
Many of the things suggested in the Quran were known back then or are simply too vague. There are also verses in the Quran that from my understanding of the text are scientifically inaccurate. For example, the verse about semen coming from between the backbone and the rib.
This is what results from skimpy, hasty study of the scripture. People don't even bother to check the accuracy of the translations and then pass their verdicts based on mistranslations.
867 It comes out from between the spine and the testicles.
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Peace everyone,
That is the proper logical approach. It is also the way of Abraham
Yes there is. Please study astronomy, particle physics, quantum mechanics, human anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry, and statistics and laws of probability. By study, I mean take a university course, not just skimp articles off imam google
How would this help in showing me that there is one god? I'm applying for Natural sciences at university so we'll see if learning all of that makes a difference.
How did the singularity come into existence? What was the reason it began to expand rapidly? Who determined the precise force of the big bang, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise force between protons and neutrons in an atom, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise force between electrons and the nucleus, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise force between the quarks, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise vibration of the energy strings which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of the universe? Who determined the precise value of Planck's constant, which even if off by a miniscule amount would not have resulted in creation of universe? What are the odds of all these precise values being what they are by random chance alone?
I think the problem here is that you're asking "who" rather than "what" and "how". If the beginning conditions were slightly different then the universe as we know it wouldn't exist, but that isn't what happened so here we are. Mentioning odds is just silly. If we have a dice with 6 sides, the chances of it landing on the number 2 for example is 1/6. If that is what happens, you're not going to assume that something divine caused it to land on the number 2, you would realise that the chances of it landing on any of those numbers is equal. It's similar with the universe that we inhabit, the big bang just happened the way it did and now we're here as a result.
WHO IS THE OBSERVER THAT CAUSES THE EXISTENCE OF UNIVERSE TO BE POSSIBLE? Without this external observer, the whole universe would collapse in a nano-second! (The Princeton interpretation of the Copenhagen phenomenon)
http//books.google.com/books?id=WEM4hqxJ-xYC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=princeton+interpretation+observer&source=bl&ots=1Vd6LaD_f8&sig=aibmsYnM3XZ2qPSH77Ry7UwI8mU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
From my understanding of that article, we humans are the observers. There is no mention in that article of there being a divine observer.
Following the wrong religion is disbelieving. Following anything other than the absolute truth is disbelieving.
What if the assumption that the disbeliever is punished is true? What if hell really exists? No problem for the other scenarios but what if God exists and disbelievers will be punished in hell for choosing disbelief out of their own free-will? Would that not be a big risk one takes when one does not believe in existence of God and existence of hell? What would be the safer approach?
Believing in God and the Last Day, and doing good deeds would be the safest approach
All approaches are as safe as one another. For all we know god might like bad deeds and disbelief.
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Peace everyone,
This is what results from skimpy, hasty study of the scripture. People don't even bother to check the accuracy of the translations and then pass their verdicts based on mistranslations.
867 It comes out from between the spine and the testicles.
??? Does it mean the penis? If so, why doesn't the author just say that to save us the confusion?
I've read plenty of translations and none of the ones I've seen were referring to where the semen comes out of, but rather where it comes from or is produced. Your translation is no more valid than the others. I suppose the varying translations goes to show how vague the Quran really is.