Allah is Jehovah...
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Assalaam Alaikum
To the 'Torah Peddlers', the 'Torah' nor the Biblical text were revealed by Allah. References to YWHW, Jehovah, Yahweh are ALL derived terms from the imagination of Men.
"Yahweh defined This gloomy ruler has three names "The first name is Yaldabaoth. The second is Saklas (the fool). The third is Samael (god of the blind)."
Reference (The Secret Book of John, from Marvin Meyer's The Secret Teachings Of Jesus Four Gnostic Gospels, p.65, pub. A.D. 1986)
The early Israelites were actually polytheists and their other principle dieties were Baal/Baalzebub and Astaroth (who were later demonised of course).
Jdg 213 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
When the ancient Hebrew lexicographers added vowels to YHWH, they borrowed the vowels of the powerful Egyptian and Phoenician Sun God deities. When the vowels of the Egyptian Sun God Aten were added, YHWH became Y{A}HW{E}H...
When the vowels of the Phoenician Sun God Adonai were added, YHWH became Y{A}H{O}W{A}H, which finally became ?JEHOVAH? which translates ?I am? and ?The Eternal One? in Hebrew. The Hebrew verb is ?halvah,? from which the name YHWH is derived. The verb ?halvah? means, ?to be.?
From Mark S. Smith's The Early History of God Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
Yet early on, Yahweh is understood as Israel's god in distinction to El. Deuteronomy 328-9 casts Yahweh in the role of one of the sons of El
Deu 328 When the 'El-Yown {el-yone'} divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deu 329 For the Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'};portion his people Jacob the lot of his inheritance.
"This passage presents an order in which each deity received its own nation. Israel was the nation that Yahweh received. It also suggests that Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman, was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel . Perhaps due to trade with Edom/Midian, Yahweh entered secondarily into the Israelite highland religion. Passages such as Deuteronomy 328-9 suggest a literary vestige of the initial assimilation of Yahweh, the southern warrior-god, into the larger highland pantheism, headed by El; other texts point to Asherah (El's consort) and to Baal and other deities as members of this pantheon. In time, El and Yahweh were identified, while Yahweh and Baal co-existed and later competed as warrior-gods. As the following chapter (section 2) suggests, one element in this competition involved Yahweh's assimilation of language and motifs originally associated with Baal."
"Will you call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-
)
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Assalaam Alaikum
To the 'Torah Peddlers', the 'Torah' nor the Biblical text were revealed by Allah. References to YWHW, Jehovah, Yahweh are ALL derived terms from the imagination of Men.
This is your biased, misguided, and uneducated opinion.
"Yahweh defined This gloomy ruler has three names "The first name is Yaldabaoth. The second is Saklas (the fool). The third is Samael (god of the blind)."
Reference (The Secret Book of John, from Marvin Meyer's The Secret Teachings Of Jesus Four Gnostic Gospels, p.65, pub. A.D. 1986)
rotfl ok this made me laugh that you are actually trying to use Marvin Meyer as a reliable source to support your absurd argument. Not to mention what you stated above is absolutely NO WHERE in the Tanakh. Nor is it in The Gospels.
So, using someone's opinion based on their imagination is not reliable. Not to mention the fact that Marvin Meyers believes in "early Christian magic" among other absurdities.
The early Israelites were actually polytheists and their other principle dieties were Baal/Baalzebub and Astaroth (who were later demonised of course).
Jdg 213 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
As usual, you just pick a verse from the Tanakh without actually reading it or understanding it. This verse does nothing to support your claim that ALL the Isrealites were polytheists, full stop.
This verse is specifically about specific people of beni Israel after the death of Joshua, in a particular time and place.
NOT ALL ISREALITES. Not even the EARLY Isrealites. Joshua's death was AFTER Jacob, Joseph, Moses, the Exodus and the wilderness and the WHOLE of the Torah.
Picking a verse at random out of the Tanakh is no different than picking a verse out of the Quran at random without context to support some radical belief.
When the ancient Hebrew lexicographers added vowels to YHWH, they borrowed the vowels of the powerful Egyptian and Phoenician Sun God deities. When the vowels of the Egyptian Sun God Aten were added, YHWH became Y{A}HW{E}H...
There are no vowel markings in the original Hebrew text. Which is WHY no one can unanimously agree on a pronounciation.
When the vowels of the Phoenician Sun God Adonai were added, YHWH became Y{A}H{O}W{A}H, which finally became ?JEHOVAH?
Wrong. The UN-voweled original hebrew text reads YHWH.
The Masoretes added vowel pointings in the text to change the word to Adonai in the 8th century COMMON ERA. This was only to remind the reader to say Adonai instead of YHWH since the Rabbinical "scholars" created a HADITH that insisted that pronouncing any sacred name of God was blasphemy. Of course such a notion is not present in the Tanakh. The prohibition against saying God's name except in prayer was a man-made innovation.
which translates ?I am? and ?The Eternal One? in Hebrew. The Hebrew verb is ?halvah,? from which the name YHWH is derived. The verb ?halvah? means, ?to be.?
From Mark S. Smith's The Early History of God Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient IsraelYa Allahi!!! Please stop misguiding people with this nonsense!
A book of opinions is not a reliable source. Evidence of this is the fact that what you just quoted is completely linguistically incorrect.
Yet early on, Yahweh is understood as Israel's god in distinction to El. Deuteronomy 328-9 casts Yahweh in the role of one of the sons of El
Deu 328 When the 'El-Yown {el-yone'} divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deu 329 For the Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'};portion his people Jacob the lot of his inheritance.
"This passage presents an order in which each deity received its own nation. Israel was the nation that Yahweh received. It also suggests that Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman, was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel . Perhaps due to trade with Edom/Midian, Yahweh entered secondarily into the Israelite highland religion. Passages such as Deuteronomy 328-9 suggest a literary vestige of the initial assimilation of Yahweh, the southern warrior-god, into the larger highland pantheism, headed by El; other texts point to Asherah (El's consort) and to Baal and other deities as members of this pantheon. In time, El and Yahweh were identified, while Yahweh and Baal co-existed and later competed as warrior-gods. As the following chapter (section 2) suggests, one element in this competition involved Yahweh's assimilation of language and motifs originally associated with Baal."
Wow, this is no different than if you were stating that every time we see Ar-Rahman in the Quran it is a different god than Allah, or everytime we see Al-Khaliq it is different that Allah or Ar-Rahman. Tell me why don't you extend this type of irrational interpretation to the Quran? rotfl
I hope you understand how ridiculous that would be.
Arnab
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That is your opinion.
I see nothing wrong in it.Maria
I'll show you why
Peace all
Arnab is right; when saying Allah in Arabic, sometimes we say "Allahoo"--which means, in Arabic, Ella Howa (Thy One).
Yahawa = Ya + howa
= Ella + howa
= Thy One
Also, we can note that Issa = Jesus, Yousuf=Joeseph, Dawood=David, etc.
Thus, I believe that Yahawa=Allah.
PeaceYou get it now?
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'Torah Peddlers' Creed....
'Since we cant prove our argument....disapprove their argument'
The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Tawrat/Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of A DONKEY / Alhimari WHICH CARRIES HUGE BOOKS / yahmilu asfaran (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
http//img377.imageshack.us/img377/8898/coolclipswb028855iu0.gif
Alhimari meaning donkey; Ham Root word Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic Pages 237-239Yahmilu means carrier, bearer of a note, of a check ; of an order or declaration; holder of a certificate, a designation, academic title, qualification or idea, inducement, prompting, carrying charges, encouragement; Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic Pages 237-242
Asfar (standing Alif at end of FA) means Large Books, Journals;
http//img518.imageshack.us/img518/6412/coolclipsvc006439uk8.jpg
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The Jewish Talmud, consisting of the Mishnah and Gemara, the equivalent of Muslim Hadith and Sunna, is a body of oral teachings of Jewish rabbis and jurists based on their interpretations and expositions of the scripture over a long period. In the words of the Jewish scholar Judah Goldin,
"... along with the revelation of the Written Torah was a revelation of an Oral Torah, that is, that interpretations of and deductions from the Scriptures must have accompanied the Scriptures themselves has at least this to recommend it no written text, particularly if it is meant as a guide for conduct, can in and of itself be complete; it must have some form of oral commentary associated with it. This much however is clear from the fifth century BC onward there was a conscious effort on the part teachers to expound the canonical books of the Torah, to make clear its meaning and its applicability. `To make clear the Torah of the Lord and put it into practice, and to teach in Israel statutes and ordinances' (Ezra 710) was not only the programme of Ezra but of the colleagues whom he attracted to himself, the Soferim ... It was the Soferim who made what was implicit in the Book of the Torah of God explicit and intelligible ..., and under their tutelage too, as times required, enactments and decrees were issued. Such teaching and legislation as the Soferim conducted through their schools and councils were carried on orally, in order to carefully distinguish between what was the Written Torah, Scripture, and the body of exegesis, interpretation by mouth, Oral Torah."
This historical testimony is self-explanatory. The theory of two revelations that the Traditionists had propagated is Jewish in origin and had its beginning in the teaching of scholar-priest Ezra, idolized by the Jews as the son of God, and his followers.
Confirmed.....
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them. how they are deluded away from the Truth!
? They have taken other than Allah their Ahbar / Scholars and their Rohban and the Christ son of Mary as lords. And they were not ordered except to serve one Allah. There is no Allah except Him. Glorify to Him from what they associate (with Him).
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It is easy, then, to imagine that among the Jews of the Hijaz who were apparently involved in mystical speculations associated with the merkabah, Ezra, because of the traditions of his translation, because of his piety, and particularly because he was equated with Enoch as the Scribe of God, could be termed one of the Bene Elohim. And, of course, he would fit the description of religious leader (one of the ahbar of the Qur'an 931) whom the Jews had exalted.
G. D. Newby, A History Of The Jews Of Arabia, 1988, University Of South Carolina Press, p. 59.
There is historical evidence that Jews did refer to Ezra as the son of Allah, the Encyclopaedia Judaica states "H. Z. Hirschberg proposed another assumption, based on the words of Ibn Hazm, namely, that the 'righteous who live in Yemen believed that 'Uzayr was indeed the son of Allah.'
According to other Muslim sources, there were some Yemenite Jews who had converted to Islam who believed that Ezra was the messiah. For Muhammad, Ezra, the Messenger of messiah, can be seen in the same light as the Christian saw Jesus, the messiah, the son of Allah." Encyclopaedia Judaica, Ibid., p. 1108.
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Peace to all,
GOD is called by many names, one of which may be "JEHOVAH" (YHWH). The Jews have called the god "Adonai" (The Lord) throughout history, and they were considered GOD's "chosen people". The only people who use the actual word "allah" are Arabs; others call upon GOD according to their own language. The word "Jehovah" is an English rendering of "Yahveh", which means "He who exists" (or in some cases, "He who causes to exist". Therefore, the word itself, even though not clearly stated in the Quran, can be used to call upon GOD. The most important view is to look at the supreme god ("allah" as the ONLY god, submitting in true monotheism. As long as this is the emphasized factor, then we are all worshipping the one god, whether we call Him "allah", "Jehovah", "eloha"/"elaw", "adonai", "al-rahman al-raheem", or simply "GOD" - they are all referring to the same being, the one god. May He guide us to truth and understanding...
Peace,
Ahmad
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I'll show you why
You get it now?
What get it?
I have all the time think That Yahova yahweh is names of God or attributes of God.
Peace
Maria -
Peace to all,
GOD is called by many names, one of which may be "JEHOVAH" (YHWH). The Jews have called the god "Adonai" (The Lord) throughout history, and they were considered GOD's "chosen people". The only people who use the actual word "allah" are Arabs; others call upon GOD according to their own language. The word "Jehovah" is an English rendering of "Yahveh", which means "He who exists" (or in some cases, "He who causes to exist". Therefore, the word itself, even though not clearly stated in the Quran, can be used to call upon GOD. The most important view is to look at the supreme god ("allah" as the ONLY god, submitting in true monotheism. As long as this is the emphasized factor, then we are all worshipping the one god, whether we call Him "allah", "Jehovah", "eloha"/"elaw", "adonai", "al-rahman al-raheem", or simply "GOD" - they are all referring to the same being, the one god. May He guide us to truth and understanding...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace,
Exactly, very well stated.
I don't know why some people here must make things so complicated(Muslimtruthrevealed) and directly defend their opinion with sweat and elbows hmmNo one was talking about to change the names of God, so why so stressed to put this kind of name down?
Maria
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What get it?
I have all the time think That Yahova yahweh is names of God or attributes of God.
Peace
MariaYou're speaking of a tetragrammaton spelt with a Yodh, Heh, Waw, Heh, and does not have any pronounciation.
Have a look at the confusion regarding the pronounciation
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Evidence_from_theophoric_names
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You're speaking of a tetragrammaton spelt with a Yodh, Heh, Waw, Heh, and does not have any pronounciation.
Have a look at the confusion regarding the pronounciation
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Evidence_from_theophoric_names
Salam FAR,
Yes, we've already discussed the fact that there is much debate over the pronounciation of YHWH in this thread. That does not take away from the fact that no matter how you pronounce it, it is a name of Allah.
Salam,
Arnab -
The most important view is to look at the supreme god ("allah" as the ONLY god, submitting in true monotheism. As long as this is the emphasized factor, then we are all worshipping the one god, whether we call Him "allah", "Jehovah", "eloha"/"elaw", "adonai", "al-rahman al-raheem", or simply "GOD" - they are all referring to the same being, the one god. May He guide us to truth and understanding...
Peace and God Bless
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Assalaam Aalaikum
This is what Allah states.....
Who were the Messengers/Prophets supplicating to and invoking?
Those were among the prophets or whom Allah has blessed from the offspring of Adam and from those whom We carried with Nooh and from the offspring of Ibraheem and Israel and from those whom We guided and We chose, when the ayats/signs of Ar-Rahman were recited on them they fall down prostrating, weeping.
AFTER that what happened?
Successors substituted/contradicted/ Fakhalafa AFTER the (Messengers), then came successors who invented/devised/ adaAAoo the SALAH / PRAYERS and follow their desires, so soon they shall encounter error.
They began to invoke other deities, gods and men!
Yet for....
Except those who repent and believe, and work righteousness. for these will enter the Garden and will not be wronged in the least,-
Gardens of Eternity, those which (Allah) Most Gracious has promised to His servants in the Unseen. for His promise must (necessarily) come to pass.
These will NOT invoke, recognize or hear any reference to other deities, no Yahweh, no Jehovah......
They will not there hear any vain discourse, but only salutations of Peace. And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and evening.
La yasmaAAoona feeha laghwan /
La yasmaAAoona (imperfect, plural, Verb Form VI = Like Verb Form III, reciprocal but the Initiator (Subject) of the act is unknown (i.e. doesn?t exist)) They cannot hear, they are NOT invoking a deity that cannot assist them or doesn?t exist
Laghwan means vain idle, frivolous, nonsense
Then Allah addresses the argument directly.....
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE?"
hal taAAlamu lahu samiyyan /
hal (interrogative particle) Is there; Used to determine a certainity of a thing
samiyyan (active participle, accusative,masculine, singular) Like him, Peer -
Peace MTR,
Gardens of Eternity, those which (Allah) Most Gracious has promised to His servants in the Unseen. for His promise must (necessarily) come to pass.
These will NOT invoke, recognize or hear any reference to other deities, no Yahweh, no Jehovah......
This is a pointless argument. It would make sense if they were calling upon the god AND another god named "Jehovah", but this is not the case. In the instance of their system, "JEHOVAH" is the one and only god, the same as "ADONAI" is to the Jews, and the same as "ALLAH" is to the submitters. There is no "other" deity, there is only one god...
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE?"
Where did you get that faulty translation? The question asked is, "Do you know any who equals Him?", or even, "Do you know any who is like Him?" The word "name"/ism is nowhere in that verse at all. From studying the scriptures, we learn that "allah" is not GOD's "name" at all, at least not in the way many perceive. It is a title, and it describes His "godship", or His right to be worshipped. The same is the case with the word "jehovah" - if it is used as a reference to the only god, then He is the same god as our god. A person doesn't have to use the Arabic word "allah" to be referring to the one god. To many people, the proper noun "God" is sufficient, especially if they don't speak the Arabic language. So, what's wrong with the title "JEHOVAH" if it's referring to the one god ("allah"?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Assalaam Alaikum Ahmad Bilal
Prove this translation is 'faulty' as you claim....
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE?"
Prove it from the language of the Quran, Quranan Arrabiyyan NOT from the English
I will assist you....
The 'Hal Accusative' is governing the entire ayah...
- Who/What deity deserves to be worshiped?
- Who/What deity is referred to as 'Lord of the Heavens and the Earth and all between"
- Who/What deity is worthy of constant and patient worship?
In fact this is a 'continuation' Verbal Sentence, stated by the angels, read the PREVIOUS ayah 19.64
The angels are asking US the question.
I await your response
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Peace,
I think this tread would be locked now because I who created it have got my answers and I am happy with it.
Peace
Maria -
Peace MTR,
Prove this translation is 'faulty' as you claim....
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE?"
Prove it from the language of the Quran, Quranan Arrabiyyan NOT from the English
There is no proof necessary. You have added the word "name"/ism into the verse with the intent of proving your point, even though it is incorrect. There is no mention of the word name/ism anywhere in that verse, and that's evident just by reading it.
The 'Hal Accusative' is governing the entire ayah...
- Who/What deity deserves to be worshiped?
- Who/What deity is referred to as 'Lord of the Heavens and the Earth and all between"
- Who/What deity is worthy of constant and patient worship?
In fact this is a 'continuation' Verbal Sentence, stated by the angels, read the PREVIOUS ayah 19.64
The angels are asking US the question.
What does this have to do with you adding the word "name" into the verse? The point is GOD is beyond having "one name" ascribed to Him. So, anything referring to any of GOD's qualities or His supremacy can be regarded as a title for the god, including "jehovah", "adonai", or "allah". They all refer to the same one god, "alrahman alraheem". It is innovation to say we can't refer to GOD in a way not described in the Quran, and the scripture doesn't say anything like this... Considering 1964, 65 in the message, read the passage in Arabic, and see if you find the word "name"/ism anywhere in the verse. I seriously doubt you will...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace MTR,
There is no proof necessary. You have added the word "name"/ism into the verse with the intent of proving your point, even though it is incorrect. There is no mention of the word name/ism anywhere in that verse, and that's evident just by reading it.
What does this have to do with you adding the word "name" into the verse? The point is GOD is beyond having "one name" ascribed to Him. So, anything referring to any of GOD's qualities or His supremacy can be regarded as a title for the god, including "jehovah", "adonai", or "allah". They all refer to the same one god, "alrahman alraheem". It is innovation to say we can't refer to GOD in a way not described in the Quran, and the scripture doesn't say anything like this... Considering 1964, 65 in the message, read the passage in Arabic, and see if you find the word "name"/ism anywhere in the verse. I seriously doubt you will...
Peace,
Ahmad
Salam,
1965
Unless someone is penciling in in their personal Quran and trying to use it as evidence, I agree that it is just not there. ;D
Salam,
Arnab -
The arrogance of some people and the lack of humility as it relates to the Quran, unbelievable.
(The angels say.) "We descend not but by command of thy Lord. to Him belongeth what is before us and what is behind us, and what is between. and thy Lord never doth forget,-
Its a Verbal Sentence, the angels are "announcing" "Our Rabb, The Lord of the Heavens and the Earth and all things between, is their any deity worthy of this designation?....."
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE?"
samiyyan meaning "another deity as Allah" , an active participle and requires a Subject, that Subject is Allah and all of Allah's attributes, designations and 'names'.
Again, take the time and learn the language of the Quran, its easy.