The Patriarch Family Puzzle
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Ismail was his uncle; it is commont that people, in the old days, consider uncles as fathers.
The Torah confirms that Issac and Ismael were the two sons of Abraham. Jaccob was the son of Isacc.
Now, in Quran( ()
In verse 2-132, Abraham was advicing his sons and Jaccob (hint that Jacob is ot his son).
2-133, Jaccob is advicing his sons, whom replied that they will follow the footsteps of his Fathers Abraham and Ismael and Issac. thus, Abraham is the grandfather, Issac is the Father, and Ismael is the Uncle.Hi belal,
You said that an uncle is considered a father then why didn't Joseph mention him with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He said three names and got lazy on Ishmael?? Secondly, Abraham and Jacob advised their children because you will find Abraham's advice then Jacob's. It is not that Abraham adviced his sons and Jacob and if you see Abrahams quotes he says 'my sons' and 'lakom'-plural not 'lakoma'. This could mean that Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob are brothers.This is further supported but the verses that say God granted Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Nowhere you will see God granted Isaac Jacob but Jacob was granted to Abraham!
Peace.
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peace,
I assume you are referring to the root Alif-Ba-Waw
If so, see Project Root List
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm= Alif-Ba-Waw = father/grandfather/ancestor, fathership/paternity, to nourish/feed/rear, bring up.
ab n.m. (pl. aba) 2133, 2170, 2170, 2200, 411, 411, 411, 422, 5104, 5104, 674, 687, 691, 6148, 727, 728, 770, 771, 795, 7173, 923, 924, 9114, 1078, 1162, 1187, 11109, 124, 124, 126, 128, 128, 129, 1211, 1216, 1217, 1238, 1240, 1259, 1261, 1263, 1263, 1265, 1268, 1278, 1280, 1280, 1281, 1281, 1293, 1294, 1297, 1299, 12100, 12100, 1323, 1410, 1635, 185, 1880, 1882, 1928, 1942, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 2144, 2152, 2153, 2154, 2278, 2324, 2368, 2383, 2431, 2431, 2461, 2518, 2626, 2670, 2674, 2676, 2686, 2767, 2768, 2823, 2825, 2826, 2836, 3121, 335, 335, 3340, 3355, 3443, 366, 3717, 3769, 3785, 37102, 37126, 408, 4322, 4323, 4324, 4326, 4329, 448, 4436, 4329, 448, 4436, 4525, 5323, 5648, 5822, 604, 8035, 1111
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages 47, 48, 49
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Hi there,
When the Quran talks about the Patriarchal family, you can notice two apparent anomalies used by many Quran critics. They are as follows
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Who were the fathers of Joseph and his brothers.
Joseph says 1238 ?And I followed the creed of my fathers Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob. It was not for us to set up partners with God at all. That is God?s blessings over us and over the people, but most of the people are not thankful.? - the classic Torah genealogy.
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he told his sons ?Who shall you serve after I am gone??, they said ?Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.? How is Ishmael one of the fathers of Jacob? Was Ishmael the father of Isaac? -
Who was granted to Abraham?
-Numerous verses says Isaac and Jacob as if both are brothers.
1171 And his wife was standing, so she laughed when We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob.
1949 So when he abandoned them and what they serve besides God, We granted him Isaac and Jacob, and We made each a prophet.
2172 And We granted him Isaac and Jacob afterward, and each of them We made a good doer.
-Or it Ishmael and Isaac?
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me in my old age Ishmael and Isaac. My Lord is the hearer of prayers.?
-Or is it Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob and the three are actually brothers?? ???
Peace.
Rami.
Perhaps it may help
http//www.anwary-islam.com/prophet-story/yaqub.htm
peace
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Perhaps it may help
http//www.anwary-islam.com/prophet-story/yaqub.htm
peace
Peace,
What was granted to Abraham??
1439 Praise be to God who has granted me in my old age Ishmael and Isaac. My Lord is the hearer of prayers. - Jacob yet to come
1949 So when he abandoned them and what they serve besides God, We granted him Isaac and Jacob, and We made each a prophet. - Ishmael came
Conclusion The three are brothers!?!?!??!?!?!
Solve this puzzle
Jacob's fathers are Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac
Joseph's fathers are Abraham, Isaac and JacobPeace. brickwall
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Peace,
What was granted to Abraham??
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me in my old age Ishmael and Isaac. My Lord is the hearer of prayers.? - Jacob yet to come
1949 So when he abandoned them and what they serve besides God, We granted him Isaac and Jacob, and We made each a prophet. - Ishmael came
Conclusion The three are brothers!?!?!??!?!?!
Solve this puzzle
Jacob's fathers are Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac
Joseph's fathers are Abraham, Isaac and JacobPeace. brickwall
Isaac in Qur'an
Isaac and Ishmael were given to Sarah, when she and Abraham were old. It is recorded that she laughed when God gave her good tidings of Isaac's birth .According to the Qur'an, the God whom Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac worshipped was the same God the sons of Jacob worshipped and surrendered to. They were called neither Jewish nor Arabs in that time, but were considered righteous. Isaac and Jacob were made chiefs who guided by the command of God, and God inspired in them to do good deeds and establish worship and the giving of alms. Isaac and Jacob were worshippers of God alone.
Isaac and Jacob are descendants of Abraham, who is called from a place where people were worshipping idols. Isaac and Jacob are both considered prophets and were given the mercy of God. He assigned to them a high and true renown.
God established the prophethood and the Scripture among the seed of Isaac and Jacob, and they were rewarded in the world .
The Qu'ran states that it makes no distinction between which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which other prophets received from God
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are called the forefathers of Joseph, upon whom God had perfected His grace. Joseph followed the same religion as his father .
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are called bondmen of God and were purified with a pure thought and were in the sight of God of the elect and the excellent .
According to Islamic beliefs, it was Ishmael and not Isaac whom Abraham nearly sacrificed in the name of Allah. The Qur'an itself though gives no name of the son that Abraham nearly sacrificed.
http//www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Isaac
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Isaac in Qur'an
Isaac and Ishmael were given to Sarah, when she and Abraham were old. It is recorded that she laughed when God gave her good tidings of Isaac's birth .According to the Qur'an, the God whom Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac worshipped was the same God the sons of Jacob worshipped and surrendered to. They were called neither Jewish nor Arabs in that time, but were considered righteous. Isaac and Jacob were made chiefs who guided by the command of God, and God inspired in them to do good deeds and establish worship and the giving of alms. Isaac and Jacob were worshippers of God alone.
Isaac and Jacob are descendants of Abraham, who is called from a place where people were worshipping idols. Isaac and Jacob are both considered prophets and were given the mercy of God. He assigned to them a high and true renown.
God established the prophethood and the Scripture among the seed of Isaac and Jacob, and they were rewarded in the world .
The Qu'ran states that it makes no distinction between which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which other prophets received from God
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are called the forefathers of Joseph, upon whom God had perfected His grace. Joseph followed the same religion as his father .
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are called bondmen of God and were purified with a pure thought and were in the sight of God of the elect and the excellent .
According to Islamic beliefs, it was Ishmael and not Isaac whom Abraham nearly sacrificed in the name of Allah. The Qur'an itself though gives no name of the son that Abraham nearly sacrificed.
http//www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Isaac
Peace,
Thanks for the link. I know the story but the puzzle remain unsolved.
Peace.
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Peace,
Thanks for the link. I know the story but the puzzle remain unsolved.
Peace.
Then what this says
Or were you present when death came to Ya'qub and he said to his sons, 'What will you worship when I have gone?' They said, 'We will worship your God, the God of your forefathers, Ibrahim, Isma'il and Ishaq-one God. We are Muslims submitted to Him.' (2133)
and see this one
His wife was standing there and she laughed out loud. So We gave her the good news of Ishaq, and beyond Ishaq, Ya'qub. (1171)
SHAKIR And his wife was standing ( by ), so she laughed, then We gave her the good news of Ishaq and after Ishaq of ( a son's son ) Yaqoub.
Ishaq and yaqoob is mentiond togather because they are the fathers of isreal and ismail is father of Arabs.
peace
We gave him Ishaq and Ya'qub and placed Prophethood and the Book among his progeny. We gave him his reward in this world and in the hereafter he will be among the righteous. (2927)
The prophethood was with ishaq family and not ismail beacaus garanted to Abraham as a gift while ismail was given to him when hey pr for a son cause he had no childrens.
And in addition to that We gave him Ishaq and Ya'qub and made both of them righteous. We made them leaders, guiding by Our command, and revealed to them how to do good actions and perform prayer and give the alms, and they worshipped Us. (2172-73)
And remember Our servants Ibrahim, Ishaq and Ya'qub, men of true strength and inner sight. We purified their sincerity through sincere remembrance of the Abode. In Our eyes they are among the best of chosen men. (3845-47)
peace
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Then what this says
Or were you present when death came to Ya'qub and he said to his sons, 'What will you worship when I have gone?' They said, 'We will worship your God, the God of your forefathers, Ibrahim, Isma'il and Ishaq-one God. We are Muslims submitted to Him.' (2133)
and see this one
His wife was standing there and she laughed out loud. So We gave her the good news of Ishaq, and beyond Ishaq, Ya'qub. (1171)
SHAKIR And his wife was standing ( by ), so she laughed, then We gave her the good news of Ishaq and after Ishaq of ( a son's son ) Yaqoub.
Ishaq and yaqoob is mentiond togather because they are the fathers of isreal and ismail is father of Arabs.
peace
We gave him Ishaq and Ya'qub and placed Prophethood and the Book among his progeny. We gave him his reward in this world and in the hereafter he will be among the righteous. (2927)
The prophethood was with ishaq family and not ismail beacaus garanted to Abraham as a gift while ismail was given to him when hey pr for a son cause he had no childrens.
And in addition to that We gave him Ishaq and Ya'qub and made both of them righteous. We made them leaders, guiding by Our command, and revealed to them how to do good actions and perform prayer and give the alms, and they worshipped Us. (2172-73)
And remember Our servants Ibrahim, Ishaq and Ya'qub, men of true strength and inner sight. We purified their sincerity through sincere remembrance of the Abode. In Our eyes they are among the best of chosen men. (3845-47)
peace
He said, 'My son, don't tell your brothers your dream lest they devise some scheme to injure you, Satan is a clear-cut enemy to man. Accordingly your Lord will pick you out and teach you the true meaning of events and perfectly fulfil His blessing on you as well as on the family of Ya'qub as He fulfilled it perfectly before upon your forebears, Ibrahim and Ishaq. Most certainly your Lord is Knowing, Wise.' (125-
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He said, 'My son, don't tell your brothers your dream lest they devise some scheme to injure you, Satan is a clear-cut enemy to man. Accordingly your Lord will pick you out and teach you the true meaning of events and perfectly fulfil His blessing on you as well as on the family of Ya'qub as He fulfilled it perfectly before upon your forebears, Ibrahim and Ishaq. Most certainly your Lord is Knowing, Wise.' (125-
Peace,
The problem here that Ishmael is a prophet too!!1954 And recall in the Scripture Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet.
So why isn't Ishmael one of the forefathers of Joseph?? hmm
Plus God gave Isaac and Jacob to Abraham! Nowhere you see God giving Jacob to Isaac!!
Peace
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Peace,
The problem here that Ishmael is a prophet too!!1954 And recall in the Scripture Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet.
So why isn't Ishmael one the forefathers of Joseph?? hmm
Plus God gave Isaac and Jacob to Abraham! Nowhere you see God gave Jacob to Isaac!!
Peace
yes but the prophethood was given to ishaq children who were called Israel and ismail children never got prphet hood exept Mohammed.
so Yaqoob was ishaq son and not ibraham son. -
yes but the prophethood was given to ishaq children who were called Israel and ismail children never got prphet hood exept Mohammed.
so Yaqoob was ishaq son and not ibraham son.Where do you find in the Quran that Mohammed is a descendant of Ishmael?! Did you know that some of the Israelites were gentiles and did you know that Mohammed was an orphan! So Mohammed could be a descendant of Jacob and so he is the seal of the Jewish Prophets! Again where in the Quran is Jacob described as Isaac's son?
Peace.
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Where do you find in the Quran that Mohammed is a descendant of Ishmael?! Did you know that some of the Israelites were gentiles and did you know that Mohammed was an orphan! So Mohammed could be a descendant of Jacob and so he is the seal of the Jewish Prophets! Again where in the Quran is Jacob described as Isaac's son?
Peace.
He said, 'My son, don't tell your brothers your dream lest they devise some scheme to injure you, Satan is a clear-cut enemy to man. Accordingly your Lord will pick you out and teach you the true meaning of events and perfectly fulfil His blessing on you as well as on the family of Ya'qub as He fulfilled it perfectly before upon your forebears, Ibrahim and Ishaq. Most certainly your Lord is Knowing, Wise.' (125-
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He said, 'My son, don't tell your brothers your dream lest they devise some scheme to injure you, Satan is a clear-cut enemy to man. Accordingly your Lord will pick you out and teach you the true meaning of events and perfectly fulfil His blessing on you as well as on the family of Ya'qub as He fulfilled it perfectly before upon your forebears, Ibrahim and Ishaq. Most certainly your Lord is Knowing, Wise.' (125-
Agreed. So Abraham begat Isaac who begat Jacob. Therefore Jacob's fathers is simply Abraham and Isaac ONLY! Then you read the following verse
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he told his sons Who shall you serve after I am gone?, they said Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.
Peace.
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Agreed. So Abraham begat Isaac who begat Jacob. Therefore Jacob's fathers is simply Abraham and Isaac ONLY! Then you read the following verse
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he told his sons ?Who shall you serve after I am gone??, they said ?Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.?
Peace.
Ok how you see your grandfather and your father and uncles you call them forefather or uncle is not considered for father?
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Agreed. So Abraham begat Isaac who begat Jacob. Therefore Jacob's fathers is simply Abraham and Isaac ONLY! Then you read the following verse
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he told his sons ?Who shall you serve after I am gone??, they said ?Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.?
Peace.
Peace
What is your point? Take a deep breath and say it ! -
Peace
What is your point? Take a deep breath and say it !Peace,
What point? there is NO point. I just want to resolve this peace but I don't want cheesy explanations. I guess it is something linguistic with the word 'forfather' or your forefathers can't be more than three?
Peace.
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Maybe; but that would not change the known facts (In Torah, Bible, and Quran) about the Familly of Abraham?
PeaceI have no idea ;D The Bible also contains these puzzles but they are bit harder and actually close to unsolvable. Like Moses stepfather has THREE different names!! The king of Egypt is ALWAYS called Pharaoh!! etc etc. I actually made this argument against the Jews about pharaoh and they said I am stupid but hey I never heard from them since. They didn't see it coming I guess laugh Pharaoh is a proper name not a title rotfl The Quran didn't fall for it!! bravo
Enjoy your time and no stress.
Peace.
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I have no idea ;D The Bible also contains these puzzles but they are bit harder and actually close to unsolvable. Like Moses stepfather has THREE different names!! The king of Egypt is ALWAYS called Pharaoh!! etc etc. I actually made this argument against the Jews about pharaoh and they said I am stupid but hey I never heard from them since. They didn't see it coming I guess laugh Pharaoh is a proper name not a title rotfl The Quran didn't fall for it!! bravo
Enjoy your time and no stress.
Peace.
Peace
Read the following and let me know if the Jews would like ithttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16684.15
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Peace
Read the following and let me know if the Jews would like ithttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16684.15
Great idea,
I always felt that the promise of God to Abraham was fulfilled. The children of Israel are occupying the nile to the euphrates already. But the Jews wont buy it > cuz Israel of the past was divided into Judah and Israel. Judah followed Judaism, hence the name but Israel didn't. So either way, we are the enemy. Plus they want Jerusalem for the temple. I see we give to them. We dont do anything with Jerusalem. Our feasts is in Mecca. If the kaaba is the true house of God, so Jews are lost anyway so what's importance of Jerusalem then??
Peace.
