Here I go again
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peace belal,
Firstly, "satan" may have rejected God's order, but that does not make "satan" a "disbeliever". Where does it say this in The Quran? "Satan" believes/knows God exists. Of course, this issue is slightly problematic because we may not be looking at "satan" as the same conceptually. In any case, if you can bring forth evidence "satan" is specifically called a "disbeliever" then please do so.
Thanks for referencing that thread. If anyone wishes to read further on the point raised, then that is a reasonable thread to read.
peace anna,
If you feel rejecting 100 lashes for adultery, as an example, makes one a disbeliever, then I assume you regard yourself (and probably everyone in the forum) as a disbeliever, seeing as you probably use fiat currency which is against The Quran? -
peace belal,
Firstly, "satan" may have rejected God's order, but that does not make "satan" a "disbeliever". Where does it say this in The Quran? "Satan" believes/knows God exists. Of course, this issue is slightly problematic because we may not be looking at "satan" as the same conceptually. In any case, if you can bring forth evidence "satan" is specifically called a "disbeliever" then please do so.
Peace all
(
Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil is in disblieving to his Lord (17-27)is a very powerful word, which discribe that He is in Constant disblieveing (Rejacting) in God's laws.
Wakas, I'm amazed by your views of Saten.
Saten is the True Enemy for Human Kind, and for Allah.
Salam
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My advise is as follows
- Investigate and become a witness to one of the greatest divine prophecies and signs and thus let God remove all the doubts in your heart in accordance to 7430-31 regarding the Quran. (You should reject hadith and sunna and all sectarian teachings besides the Quran)
OR
- Remain within your tradition as a submitter to God alone by joining a Unitarian Universalits church in your neighborhood.
Peace,
Edip -
My advise is as follows
- Investigate and become a witness to one of the greatest divine prophecies and signs and thus let God remove all the doubts in your heart in accordance to 7430-31 regarding the Quran. (You should reject hadith and sunna and all sectarian teachings besides the Quran)
OR
- Remain within your tradition as a submitter to God alone by joining a Unitarian Universalits church in your neighborhood.
Peace,
EdipPeace Edip
Good to have you back safe.Now back to work
Are advising by either a)to become 19ers and reject 9-128 and 129 or b)To become a christian (reject the Quran).
I would call this advise "A Ticket to Hillfire".
May God be mercy on us
Salam -
There is nothing called a person believes in the Bible but not the Koran or the Torah. What they really mean is he believes the Bible is the Holy book but is not following it properly. If he or she did then they would be following the Koran by default. You believe in any of them you believe in all of them. The Torah, Bible and Koran are the same message. All of them are God's scriptures and all call for monotheism and righteous acts and all are a warning to disbelief and evil acts. All talk about the prophets and all talk about the angels and all talk about the creation of Adam. Jesus said he came to confirm the Torah and he himself was a master of the Torah and used to preach it even when he was a child. The Koran came to confirm the previous scriptures. The Koran itself eduactes us about the prophets of the Torah and others. How can you truly believe and follow one but not another? It don't make sense.
The problem why this debate is even happening is many people here have not obeyed the Koranic command regarding the previous scriptures and are always insisting in finding "differences". They come up with 4 or 5 verses and say this is different rom the Koran or these verses in the Koran are different from the Gospel and so on. These differences are illusions on people's minds. There are no differences just different interpretations. Yes the scriptures have different linguistic qualities but the message is one. The Koran always refered to believes of the Torah and Bible as believes of the message of the Koran and vice versa. Its when you accept other authorities along with these scriptures that you ill find differences not on the scriptures but on the religious traditions. We ned to seperate the religious orthodoxies that claim to speak for these scriptures and the scriptures themselves.
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peace belal,
Peace all
(
Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil is in disblieving to his Lord (17-27)is a very powerful word, which discribe that He is in Constant disblieveing (Rejacting) in God's laws.
Wakas, I'm amazed by your views of Saten.
Saten is the True Enemy for Human Kind, and for Allah.
Salam
kfr does not exclusively mean "disbelief" and you know it. If you dont know it, then I recommend reading any Classical Arabic dictionary, and The Quran's usage of the term, e.g http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Tell me, does "satan" converse with God even though according to you "satan" disbelieves in God?
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peace belal,
kfr does not exclusively mean "disbelief" and you know it. If you dont know it, then I recommend reading any Classical Arabic dictionary, and The Quran's usage of the term, e.g http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Tell me, does "satan" converse with God even though according to you "satan" disbelieves in God?
Peace Wakas
Kafer is someone who reject and/or disblieve in the existance of God Or "God's Laws". Thus, any one who believes in the
existance of God while rejecting his orders, according to Quran, He or She a Kaffer.
Now, Kaffer is been translated to the english word "Disbelieving". But if you think it does not mean disblieving, then tell me which arabic word in the Quran that god used to refer to the disblievers.
And when you do that, I will look up the word in Quran and see if God used it in referance to Saten.
By the Way, any one God refered to him as a Kaffer, such Saten, He or She will have the Ultimate Punishment in Hillfire.
Peace -
peace belal,
kfr can mean disbelief/reject, but these are not its only meaning, that was my point. So showing "satan" is kfr shows it meaning "disbelief/disbeliever" is a possibility, but when this is weighed with the fact "satan" clearly acknowledges God existing, then logically, it cannot mean "disbelief/disbeliever".
I have not studied "disbeliever"-like terms in The Quran, thus cannot give you some at this point.
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peace belal,
kfr can mean disbelief/reject, but these are not its only meaning, that was my point. So showing "satan" is kfr shows it meaning "disbelief/disbeliever" is a possibility, but when this is weighed with the fact "satan" clearly acknowledges God existing, then logically, it cannot mean "disbelief/disbeliever".
Peace Wakas
(
After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (their enemies) against them, in guilt and tronsgression; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? But what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? -and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. (2-85)Here you can note that the Verb "Ta-kfroon" is used to refer to rejecting part of the Book; please note the the Jews Believe in God existance, but still God Called them Kaffron (called the ones who reject some of God's Laws)
I have not studied "disbeliever"-like terms in The Quran, thus cannot give you some at this point.
I know the arabic Trem that means disblieving Kazab
6-21
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Who doth more wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah or rejecteth His Signs? But verily the wrong-doers never shall prosper. (21)Anyone Who disblieves (Kazeb) or rejects (Kaffer) one verse of the Book will be in Hillfire, according to Quran; moreover, God called him all names including Kaffer.
Salam
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There is nothing called a person believes in the Bible but not the Koran or the Torah. What they really mean is he believes the Bible is the Holy book but is not following it properly. If he or she did then they would be following the Koran by default. You believe in any of them you believe in all of them. The Torah, Bible and Koran are the same message. All of them are God's scriptures and all call for monotheism and righteous acts and all are a warning to disbelief and evil acts. All talk about the prophets and all talk about the angels and all talk about the creation of Adam. Jesus said he came to confirm the Torah and he himself was a master of the Torah and used to preach it even when he was a child. The Koran came to confirm the previous scriptures. The Koran itself eduactes us about the prophets of the Torah and others. How can you truly believe and follow one but not another? It don't make sense.
The problem why this debate is even happening is many people here have not obeyed the Koranic command regarding the previous scriptures and are always insisting in finding "differences". They come up with 4 or 5 verses and say this is different rom the Koran or these verses in the Koran are different from the Gospel and so on. These differences are illusions on people's minds. There are no differences just different interpretations. Yes the scriptures have different linguistic qualities but the message is one. The Koran always refered to believes of the Torah and Bible as believes of the message of the Koran and vice versa. Its when you accept other authorities along with these scriptures that you ill find differences not on the scriptures but on the religious traditions. We ned to seperate the religious orthodoxies that claim to speak for these scriptures and the scriptures themselves.
Eloquently stated bigmo!
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace Edip
Good to have you back safe.Now back to work
Are advising by either a)to become 19ers and reject 9-128 and 129 or b)To become a christian (reject the Quran).
I would call this advise "A Ticket to Hillfire".
May God be mercy on us
SalamThis is my opinion too, that is why I feel that I need to make a decision about this.
As for reading the Koran. Yes I read, maybe even a hundred times even. But I don't feel that I read it the correct way. I read it going through the words without understanding them. I read it quickly without letting the words sink in
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This is my opinion too, that is why I feel that I need to make a decision about this.
As for reading the Koran. Yes I read, maybe even a hundred times even. But I don't feel that I read it the correct way. I read it going through the words without understanding them. I read it quickly without letting the words sink in
Peace all
During my graduate studies I was an "A" student; and the reason I did so good is because I studied the books using paper and pen.
At that time I decided to do the same with Quran; I used a paper and a pen to study it as I studied my school books.
Try not to read but study the Quran. When you feel that you can not understanding a verse, ask God to show you the right meaning.; and guss what, He will show you.
How about if you start today with the first chapter "Al Fatiha"; and when you do, share with us what your understading.
Peace -
I do agree brother...but God said some of them are not. Therefore, we can't generalize, can we?
peace. i find the flowers beautiful. in one of the posts you mention about you "the only desert rose (am not sure)". what/where desert are you in right now.
salams. ramon.
Peace brother
I said majorityIm in the desert of UAE
;D
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Salaam,
I agree completely. Only the truly repressed will have an excuse on the day of judgment.497 Those whose lives are terminated by the angels, while they had wronged their souls; they said ?What situation were you in??, they said ?We were oppressed on Earth.? They said ?Was God?s Earth not wide enough that you could emigrate in it?? To these their abode will be Hell; what a miserable destiny!
498 Except for those who were oppressed from the men, women, and children who could not devise a plan nor could be guided to a way.Peace Brother
I believe the God earth is not wide any more you need visa to migrate and escap oppression.
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Peace Confused,
This is my opinion too, that is why I feel that I need to make a decision about this.
As for reading the Koran. Yes I read, maybe even a hundred times even. But I don't feel that I read it the correct way. I read it going through the words without understanding them. I read it quickly without letting the words sink in
I read the Quran and I think I understand it well enough, yet in some parts of it I cannot see any relation to my everyday life.
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peace belal,
kfr can mean disbelief/reject, but these are not its only meaning, that was my point. So showing "satan" is kfr shows it meaning "disbelief/disbeliever" is a possibility, but when this is weighed with the fact "satan" clearly acknowledges God existing, then logically, it cannot mean "disbelief/disbeliever".
I have not studied "disbeliever"-like terms in The Quran, thus cannot give you some at this point.
Peace Wakas and all,
What came to my mind when reading about satan's behaviour is the word "naughty". If satan acknowledges God existing but still refuse His orders then satan is like a naughty child.
Maria
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Peace Confused,
I read the Quran and I think I understand it well enough, yet in some parts of it I cannot see any relation to my everyday life.But i think in a big part of it, it do contribute to everyday life
For me i have passed through different life circumstances, where verses fom the quran did giude me to deal with them in a right way.peace
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Peace Wakas and all,
What came to my mind when reading about satan's behaviour is the word "naughty". If satan acknowledges God existing but still refuse His orders then satan is like a naughty child.
Maria
Peace Maria
Would you throw your naughty child in Hillfire?
Saten and all of God's creatures, God can punish them in hillfire or forgive them;
And it is a fact that God promised to send Saten and his followers to Hillfire.Non of God's creatuers are considerd his Childeren
(
the Jews and the Christians say "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay ye are but men, of the men He hath created He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between and unto Him is the final goal (of all)." (5-1(
Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (172)I'm not God's Child but God's Slave, who will not dare to question God's will upon myself or my familly.
Sorry, I had to post this in order to clarify that disblievers and rejectors are not God's naughty Childrens, which I believe you did not mean to say in your post.
Peace -
Peace brother
I said majorityIm in the desert of UAE
;D
peace. i got it.
ramon
