underage brides

TheNabi

Peace

I do not want kids, nor do I want to fornicate, and I'm sort of anti-social. The criteria does not fit all of course, but we like to generalize cause it's easier to stuff ideas and concepts into one box, index, folder, or what have you.

Joe

TheNabi

Peace

It's different from a 25 year old woman with a 40 year old man, she at least is far more knowledgable than a 12 year old.

Which 12 year old? Sometimes we accumulate junks and have 40 year old idiots.

Joe

Real_Truth

Salam,

A female should not get married before the age of 18 because it's her right to finish school and become full grown in her body.

Maria

Agreed unless she wants too.

FAR

I empathise with orphans, so I want to do the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do.

Like I said, the age of 18 is normally when a person finishes formal education before being sent off to the university. This applies to most developed countries, you only need to read up on education systems for that. Also, I said around 18, I didn't say exactly 18.

There is no sanctioned research on the 'eligibility of marriage' which is why I say that there obviously can be exceptions. However if the law itself, which was created to protect young women, states that one can only marry at a certain age, it should be obeyed failing which one just shows the lack of maturity regarding the matter. The age of marriage for Muslims here is 16, do I want to contest that? No. If they are younger and if the families are agreeable it is also allowed though it is not encouraged. This is because, as shown by research done in my country, underaged brides are more likely to divorce and raise latchkey kids than those who were more mature when they got married. 'Desire' is no barometer for readiness.

And a woman's sustinance for learning is the responsibility of firstly her husban Where do you get that? It's highly unlikely that I will get married and I am responsible for my own learning. What, women are too dumb to think for themselves?

In some other thread, you brought up Andrea Dworkin, I'm suprised that you read Dworkin, agree with her, but still subscribe to a partriarchal model.

In your country? How about we do one for history? Or even one for the latchkey kids of older mothers for here in the UK, or of other secular countries?

Poorly trained kids only come from poorly trained mothers and young males that are married to these young females.
Not to mention that they the parents who normally give their young daughters away are poor themselves.
Most divorces are not caused only by poor training, but by poor choice of partners, quick marriages for "family" reasons. But even after that there is always the factor of modern sythetic consuption, kinda like the Roman lead consuption.

According to Kaussar, (2005). The most important reason that is attributed to the problem of divorce among Muslims is the ignorance of the type of relationship that Islam envisages for married couples
3. So, not understanding of Islam and weakness of faith played a major role in increasing the percentage of divorce in the society. Therefore, not abiding by the Islamic teachings and the deep ignorance of the Islamic instructions by the married couples lead to divorce. Furthermore, neglecting the tradition, values and moral in exchange for modernity exacerbate the problem.

-Causes and remedies of high divorce rate in Malaysia

Don't forget that divorce is allowed thanks to the Quran, it's not the same as for the Bible believers.

However, under the Islamic Family Law (Federal Territories) Act 1984, it also allows girls younger then the legal age to marry under special conditions (such as unplanned pregancies)

Desire is a psychological reason for that female to be separated from her brothers (incest that's why) and be taught about marriage and post andropausal partner seeked, then when that females enters into menarche she's read to be a mother. Why wait for "unplanned pregancies". Such a method would be the best solution for young females in the UK and the rest of the world.

The current UN model is anti-evolutionary. As it promotes women to avoid becomming pregnant. In the history of humanity, women have never been in such a state as today where the female chooses to avoid pregnancies. Ask any working woman.

As for most developed countries, look at their economies... you call that developed? Look at the work force, practically slavery. And when it comes to education, homeschooling can solve that equation as well. Not only can it solve young mothers, it's better than going to school. I don't get how stupid anyone can be sending their kids to a concentration camp because they call it "school".

You remove schools, synthetic consumption, and then you're left with something a little natural with the application of the above model (rather than your UN model) which satisfies quran 46.

raginggaijin

Re you sure confused

Positive.

Edit Ach, I responded to something all-together different from this topic! My apologies! I removed it and will state my position on this horrific topic.

The act of taking a child as a sexual partner is a horrendous sin, an abomination to God, and the reward these men receive in the Fire will be Justice indeed. As a man who was abused as a child, I have no sense of forgiveness for these sinister men who trangress and destroy a child's innocence. If this were my child I would slay the man outright to protect her from harm and from this evil deception given to man by satan. There is NO reason for a child bride or groom, EVER. If a father and mother give their children out to sate these carnal desires for the sake of money, then they suffer the same fate as the sick bastard who takes the child, and it is rightly deserved. It's filth, filth, FILTH! The world would be much better off if these men were slain outright and all their possessions given to the poor and needy.

My God, this topic is vile and anyone who approves of it, may God have mercy upon your souls. You won't find it from me. elektro voodoo

Peace and blessings.

FAR

Even if your child was 39 years of old?

raginggaijin

Even if your child was 39 years of old?

Raca.

Curlybella

pr

I have been kinda Sunni bashing sorry its a bad habit. This guy gave me this ayah and, said this ayah means when you have married a girl who does not have her period yet 665.
Now I know full well that this is talking about women but just be alert about this and give me any feedback. Yes Maria they are pedophiles and, it is sick God will burn them all. I read the ayah where it says the blast seizes them i quiver and, become restless Judgment day ya Allah forgive me!
please any feedback is great Thanks

SarahY

Different times had different practices.. my mother was married when she was like 15... back then it was normal in her socio-cultural setting.

665 (Asad) Were he to divorce you, God might well give him in your stead spouses better than you - women who surrender themselves unto God, who truly believe, devoutly obey His will, turn in repentance worship and go on and on - be they women previously married or virgins.

I think the guy misunderstood the ayah. Also, another thing to note, there are some (not so common) older women who don't get their menses.

Peace.

Imaani1

I have two children a girl and a boy and as far as im concerned its about choice thats where age comes into it....now I may be wrong but I could not imagine any young girl or boy consenting willingly happily and with full knowledge of responsibility (without pressure be it forced or subdued) to a marriage to any man or women of any age before they reached 17/18.......what female child below 12 would agree to marrying an old man

puberty is not the only factor to be considered when making a marriage but is the only excuse used by these men/women/parents to make the horrific choice of allowing a marriage contract which will allow the child to be used sexually without repercussions and often with a monetary or some other benefit to the parents of the parties involved.

Yes there are diff practices in diff parts of the world (doesnt make it right) and yes some people do mature mentally before others but in the stories presented this isnt a factor...puberty and poverty is and it makes my blood boil.

My children will have a choice....all persons should have a choice. Peace.

SarahY

I have two children a girl and a boy and as far as im concerned its about choice thats where age comes into it....now I may be wrong but I could not imagine any young girl or boy consenting willingly happily and with full knowledge of responsibility (without pressure be it forced or subdued) to a marriage to any man or women of any age before they reached 17/18.......what female child below 12 would agree to marrying an old man

An impressionable one .. it is quite sad. there is a saying in arabic that says poverty is kufr, makes one disbelieve/be ungrateful. it makes people do all sorts of crazy things (not that it's right).

It's good you will give your children the choice, many parents feel they have that authority... quite sad

peace

Curlybella

ok so i posted the wrong ayah here it is the one he said allows the marrying of kids.
654 As for those who have reached menopause from your women, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months - as well as for those who did not menstruate. And those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.

() hold that this is for girls not yet menstrating. >D
any input appreciated. thanks Salam

Wakas

peace Curlybella,

nissa means women, NOT girls. I would be interested in an occurrence in The Quran showing otherwise. There are various conditions that cause women not to menstruate.

As a side note
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm

SarahY

Well again with this ayah it doesn't say "allows marriage for kids". I know a lady who didn't get her menses till she was 21, does that make her a kid? and I knew a kid who got her menses at 7..

nisa = women as far as I know. Some women don't get menses I think this refers to them.

Kids = tifal/walad/bun-baneen

The reference is not to age, the reference is to biological matters to determine a time frame.

Remember you can't inherit women against their will 419

Salam

FAR

I have two children a girl and a boy and as far as im concerned its about choice thats where age comes into it....now I may be wrong but I could not imagine any young girl or boy consenting willingly happily and with full knowledge of responsibility (without pressure be it forced or subdued) to a marriage to any man or women of any age before they reached 17/18.......what female child below 12 would agree to marrying an old man

puberty is not the only factor to be considered when making a marriage but is the only excuse used by these men/women/parents to make the horrific choice of allowing a marriage contract which will allow the child to be used sexually without repercussions and often with a monetary or some other benefit to the parents of the parties involved.

Yes there are diff practices in diff parts of the world (doesnt make it right) and yes some people do mature mentally before others but in the stories presented this isnt a factor...puberty and poverty is and it makes my blood boil.

My children will have a choice....all persons should have a choice. Peace.

I consider that a denial of women's rights. A woman, is a woman, is a woman. It's a shame that in many muslim societies, it's the women that deny other women their rights. So much so, it's the women that state it's okay to hit a woman. In this case it's the women who stand by unislamic policies that go by the UN's mandate of when women are women according to set age, rather than the quran that makes it clear that they should be tried to see if they're of age. And what would there be to see other than the biology of that child?

What an interesting loophole against women's suffrage some may say.

And the discrimination doesn't stop there... "old man"... what ageism! When most of history had older men marry young women. We have "modern" women who live by current trends bashing males, especially if they're above a certain age. When in fact an older male is far more suited to a younger female because he has finance, and experience of raising children, and has passed into andropause. Because many a times we see young females suffer abuse and short term marriages with young males under 35. But of course the verse of the quran that refers to marrying women if one fears for orphans is ignored. Why do we think that the quran would talk about marriage in the same verse that it mentions orphans?

Ah yes... "horrific choice" ... "child"... "sexual"... "old man"... perhaps we should refer to the movie 'Shallow Hal'.

And no, I'd be too young (24) for such females.

FAR

Well again with this ayah it doesn't say "allows marriage for kids". I know a lady who didn't get her menses till she was 21, does that make her a kid? and I knew a kid who got her menses at 7..

nisa = women as far as I know. Some women don't get menses I think this refers to them.

Kids = tifal/walad/bun-baneen

The reference is not to age, the reference is to biological matters to determine a time frame.

Remember you can't inherit women against their will 419

Salam

I'm glad that the quran makes it clear that children don't menstruate.

Yeah it does make her a kid because women who don't menstruate, are those who have done so and then end up not being able to.

afridi220

I consider that a denial of women's rights. A woman, is a woman, is a woman. It's a shame that in many muslim societies, it's the women that deny other women their rights. So much so, it's the women that state it's okay to hit a woman. In this case it's the women who stand by unislamic policies that go by the UN's mandate of when women are women according to set age, rather than the quran that makes it clear that they should be tried to see if they're of age. And what would there be to see other than the biology of that child?

What an interesting loophole against women's suffrage some may say.

And the discrimination doesn't stop there... "old man"... what ageism! When most of history had older men marry young women. We have "modern" women who live by current trends bashing males, especially if they're above a certain age. When in fact an older male is far more suited to a younger female because he has finance, and experience of raising children, and has passed into andropause. Because many a times we see young females suffer abuse and short term marriages with young males under 35. But of course the verse of the quran that refers to marrying women if one fears for orphans is ignored. Why do we think that the quran would talk about marriage in the same verse that it mentions orphans?

Ah yes... "horrific choice" ... "child"... "sexual"... "old man"... perhaps we should refer to the movie 'Shallow Hal'.

And no, I'd be too young (24) for such females.

SAY THE TRUTH BUT DON T HURT ANYONE FEELINGS. hypno ;D that is true

Truth_Seeker 0

I consider that a denial of women's rights. A woman, is a woman, is a woman...........

Not coercing/pressuring/forcing a female CHILD into a life of misery by marrying her off to a much older MAN is denial of ?women?s? rights?! These are CHILDREN we are talking about, not women.

A child, is a child, is a child, and marriage is not child?s play.

And a homosexual, is a homosexual, is a homosexual. You are who you are. You understand that you will never find yourself physically attracted to a woman but feel that is your only option because it is what you believe God wants from you. In the process, you ruin your own and another person?s life because neither of you will ever know what it is to be in love with the one you are married to. Your lives together will be more like a business partnership, and eventually you will both end up being miserable and hating one another.

One thing that you are not considering (because you know that you can never fall in love with a woman) and many fathers don?t seem to think about or perhaps even care about when they pressure or force their young daughter into an arranged marriage with a man the girl never spoke to (and sometimes never saw before the wedding) is her feelings/emotions. Young girls are attracted to young boys, and vice versa. Security and wealth mean nothing when one is not attracted to--and in the case of a much older man, repulsed by--the one they have to go to bed with every night. God gave humans the emotion of love for a reason, and love between a husband and wife is necessary for a peaceful and happy marriage. A father does not have the right to take something so precious away from his child. To do so is UN-Islamic.

Rarely is there an arranged marriage where both husband and wife are happy. People will put on a happy face in front of others, but it?s a different picture behind closed doors, with much arguing, yelling, verbal and physical abuse. Many women never let on to just how unhappy they are. They know that leaving is not an option. Some hide is so well that their own husband and children don?t know.

A few of my friends are from the Middle East. At a house party, one of the older women commented on how happy she was when her husband announced that he was taking on a second wife since it meant less time spent with him. There were nine women there. All the women there were in arranged marriages, either to cousins or other men their parents had chosen for them. Only one said she was happy because her husband didn?t mistreat her. All the others said they would have left/would leave their husbands if it were a choice but they all felt that leaving was not an option because of children, family ties, tradition, etc.

Arranged marriages are rarely happy marriages and that makes them un-Islamic.

All that other nonsense you wrote, well, it?s quite clear you don?t like females much so of course you don?t see things as they really are. You can write what you like but it doesn't make it true, especially since you are obviously not of sound mind. Perhaps it is a result of your struggling with denying yourself what you truly desire vs what society and what you think God wants from you.

I believe that homosexuality is not a choice. I could tell one of my male cousins was from a very young age. Some of my best friends have been gay men. Luckily, they live in a society that is more accepting of them. I also believe that many verses in the Quran are mistranslated and misinterpreted, including those regarding homosexuals. You are who you are, and you cannot force yourself to be attracted to something you?re not programmed to. I'm sure God wants everyone to be happy. I can?t imagine God would care what you do behind closed doors as long as it?s consensual and you?re not hurting anyone. In my opinion, it is far worse for you to marry a woman under false pretenses. It would be unfair to her, and God does not like hypocrites. Be true to yourself, and also keep to yourself what you think is best for girls and women. You have no clue.

SarahY

A few of my friends are from the Middle East. At a house party, one of the older women commented on how happy she was when her husband announced that he was taking on a second wife since it meant less time spent with him. There were nine women there. All the women there were in arranged marriages, either to cousins or other men their parents had chosen for them. Only one said she was happy because her husband didn?t mistreat her. All the others said they would have left/would leave their husbands if it were a choice but they all felt that leaving was not an option because of children, family ties, tradition, etc.

Arranged marriages are rarely happy marriages and that makes them un-Islamic.

That's really sad.. though these days I think it's a lil more difficult for arranged marriages to happen as it used to. Islamically I don't think there is any harm in someone introducing another but forcing that person on is when it becomes unislamic.

I don't understand where homosexuality came in the picture.

Peace

unknownuser

Peace,

ok so i posted the wrong ayah here it is the one he said allows the marrying of kids.
654 As for those who have reached menopause from your women, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months - as well as for those who did not menstruate. And those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.

() hold that this is for girls not yet menstrating. >D
any input appreciated. thanks Salam

peace Curlybella,

nissa means women, NOT girls. I would be interested in an occurrence in The Quran showing otherwise. There are various conditions that cause women not to menstruate.

As a side note
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm

Nisaan means females any age same as Rijalan is males at any age otherwise we cannot determine to draw the line on the age of participant inheritors ? age 5, 10, 20, etc....

411 he directs you God in your CHILDREN to the male equal luck the two females
else if they are females above two, so for them two thirds, and if she was one, so for her the half

Pertaining to the verse in question...

654 And those who became infertile from the menstruation from your females,
if you became suspicious, so their term three shahr and those who did not menstruate
and of the pregnant, their term that they give birth...

Females past menopause OR those who are irregular, wait 3 months to make sure not pregnant when baby is large as a lime?

http//assets.babycenter.com/ims/2007/10oct/20071004/12-lime.jpg?width=424&height=302&pad=true

http//www.babycenter.com/slideshow-baby-size

http//www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/menstruation_cycle.htm

Many women experience one or two irregular periods every six months. This is not usually caused by any serious condition.

I consider that a denial of women's rights. A woman, is a woman, is a woman.

Marriage requires womanhood/maturity (46) which varies amongst cultures and times.