If for the Men there will be hooris,what will there be for women in Paradise?

belH

The firts time the janna -and the fire- is depicted in the Qur'an which is at the beginning in Al baqara, 21 to 29 we are told that we are being spoken to with amthal, that is, images, metaphors, parables, and not once but several times... Therefore to go on to extract conclusions from the litteral meaning is a guranty of getting it wrong, because one thing that is sure is that the image cannot mean is itself.

Peace all

What God said in the Quran about the unseen is Thy TRUTH. The Jana is TRUTH and the Hillfire is TRUTH. You have all the right to disblieve in the Truth but you have no right to make others follow your and MTR footsteps.

(&#65279
If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance; but the Word from Me is the Truth. "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together." (32-13)

Then there is all this speculation about Adam, mate, ladies first or gentelman only... The Qur'an says many different things on this, all very difficult to interpret and fit

All fits with each others

(&#65279
Do they not ponder on the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. (4-82)

Now; do you believe in Saten Story (MTR Needs your help in answering)? rotfl

huruf

Peace all

What God said in the Quran about the unseen is Thy TRUTH. The Jana is TRUTH and the Hillfire is TRUTH. You have all the right to disblieve in the Truth but you have no right to make others follow your and MTR footsteps.

(&#65279
If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance; but the Word from Me is the Truth. "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together." (32-13)
All fits with each others

(&#65279
Do they not ponder on the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. (4-82)

Now; do you believe in Saten Story (MTR Needs your help in answering)? rotfl

Of course what the Qur'an says is true, it is true what is meant by the metaphores when it says it is using metaphores. But, never mind, it is your business if you pick from the Quran what suits you and leave out what doesn't suit you. No need to argue. Have it all your way.

Salaam

belH

Of course what the Qur'an says is true, it is true what is meant by the metaphores when it says it is using metaphores. But, never mind, it is your business if you pick from the Quran what suits you and leave out what doesn't suit you. No need to argue. Have it all your way.

Salaam

Wait; do you believe in Saten Story? rotfl

huruf

Wait; do you believe in Saten Story? rotfl

I am not in the mind to answer inquisitorial questions. Inquisition is over. You should state in written form what it is that you understand by this "Saten Story" before wanting any answer, so the inquisited knows what the inquisitor has in mind. "Faithful" is not a synonim of "mind-guesser".

Anyway, just to avoid beating around the Bush I will make a general statement

I believe in the Qur'an as it was revealed to Muhammad.

I do not believe in anything as reprocessed by Belalhamd or anybody else. Belalhamd is not God and what Belalhamd says or has in mind binds nobody.

Now I shall expect to see some more of those inquisitorial talents and have my above statement reprocessed to show how evil I am.

And excuse me if I do not sound too respectful of your utterings, but reading the Generous Qur'n is not the same as reading the product of some self-appointed truthpossessor's mind, which explains why I find your said utterings inevitably disappointing.

Salaam

belH

Anyway, just to avoid beating around the Bush I will make a general statement

I believe in the Qur'an as it was revealed to Muhammad.

I do not believe in anything as reprocessed by Belalhamd or anybody else.

I agree with you that the above statements are what every Believer should do; Now, what is your understanding of 7-11 thru18 (the story of Saten); the following are the Quran verses without any processing activity from me

(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 ()

If you and MTR ignored answering agian, I will assume that you do not believe in the Quran that was revealed to Mohamed.
Peace

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

Both of us have already answered.

We believe in the Quran and what was revealed to the Messengers of Allah

The thread topic is "If for the Men there will be hooris,what will there be for women in Paradise?"

We are trying desperately to get back to the focus of the thread.

The reference to Shaitan would be counter-productive to developing the understanding of the thread topic at this point.

We are just waiting for you to finish 'thrashing' the thread......

belH

Assalaam Alaikum

Both of us have already answered.

We believe in the Quran and what was revealed to the Messengers of Allah

The thread topic is "If for the Men there will be hooris,what will there be for women in Paradise?"

We are trying desperately to get back to the focus of the thread.

The reference to Shaitan would be counter-productive to developing the understanding of the thread topic at this point.

We are just waiting for you to finish 'thrashing' the thread......

I will wait for your answer in the new thread

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597424.0

belH

Then there is all this speculation about Adam, mate, ladies first or gentelman only... The Qur'an says many different things on this, all very difficult to interpret and fit

Peace all
The Quran is easy to be understood by the believers who trully seek such understanding, but the ones whom Gods knows what is in their heart will never understand the Quran.

(&#65279
And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness. If thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. (18-57)

police

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

The patriarchal interpretation of human development is rather dated and obsolete. It stems from the same Biblical rendition that Eve/Woman was created from Adam/Man.

Nothing in the Quran suggests any patriarchal interpretation, that implies Men were developed 'first' and women came from Men, which is absurd to say the least.

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; THEN WE DEVELOPED OUT OF IT ANOTHER CREATURE / anshanahu khalqan akhara . So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

ansha'nahu (perfect, 1st person, plural, verb form IV) We created
khalqan (noun) Creature, Creation
akhara meaning another, another of two

Ansha 'na or Nash 'ah This is the third and final phase of foetal development. Rapid cell division, differentiation (sex determination), development of sexual organs and growth leads to the formation of a definite human shape, PRIOR to Ansha 'na or Nash 'ah, the foetus has not developed any sexual organs. Yet it has taken on characteristics of a human form. Its NOT male or female in the initial stages of this phase.

Now the real question arises;

What is this 'other creation' that Allah is developing from the physical human form?

WayFinder

Assalaam Alaikum

The patriarchal interpretation of human development is rather dated and obsolete. It stems from the same Biblical rendition that Eve/Woman was created from Adam/Man.

Nothing in the Quran suggests any patriarchal interpretation, that implies Men were developed 'first' and women came from Men, which is absurd to say the least.

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; THEN WE DEVELOPED OUT OF IT ANOTHER CREATURE / anshanahu khalqan akhara . So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

ansha'nahu (perfect, 1st person, plural, verb form IV) We created
khalqan (noun) Creature, Creation
akhara meaning another, another of two

Ansha 'na or Nash 'ah This is the third and final phase of foetal development. Rapid cell division, differentiation (sex determination), development of sexual organs and growth leads to the formation of a definite human shape, PRIOR to Ansha 'na or Nash 'ah, the foetus has not developed any sexual organs. Yet it has taken on characteristics of a human form. Its NOT male or female in the initial stages of this phase.

Now the real question arises;

What is this 'other creation' that Allah is developing from the physical human form?

It has more to do with the look... Look the first stage in the progression, where the Vertebrae column(bones) is clearly visible and is covered with flesh.... But look as the creature..... It does not look human at all....

However, look the the final stage... this is the KHALQAN AAKHAR..... both are VERY DIFFERENT from one another....
http//www.alexanderandturner.com/assets/images/cy13c.jpg

God is Great...

belH

Assalaam Alaikum

The patriarchal interpretation of human development is rather dated and obsolete. It stems from the same Biblical rendition that Eve/Woman was created from Adam/Man.

Peace all
MTR said what She Said, and God says

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Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create a Human from clay (71) "When I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him." (72) So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together; (73) Not so Iblis he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith. (74) (Allah) said "O Iblis! what prevents thee from prostrating thyself to one whom I have created with My hands? Art thou haughty? Or art thou one of the high (and mighty) ones?" (75) (Iblis) said "I am better than he Thou createdst me from fire, and him Thou createdst from clay." (76) (Allah) said "Then get thee out from here for thou art rejected, accursed. (77) "And My Curse shall be on thee till the Day of Judgement." (7 (Iblis) said "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised." (79) (Allah) said "Respite then is granted thee (80) "Till the Day of the Time Appointed." (81) (Iblis) said "Then by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong (82) "Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy grace)." (83) (Allah) said "Then it is just and fitting and I say what is just and fitting (84) "That I will certainly fill Hell with thee and those that follow thee--every one." (38-85)

(&#65279
And behold We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam"; and they bowed down not so Iblis he refused and was
haughty he was of those who reject Faith. (2-34)

(&#65279
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord Who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women; fear Allah, through Whom ye demand your mutual (rights) and (reverence) the wombs (that bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.` (4-1)

Who is saying the Truth? MTR or Your Lord?

Muslimtruthrevealed

http//www.alexanderandturner.com/assets/images/cy13c.jpg

FIRST & SECOND Stages AAithaman fakasawna alAAithama lahman THIRD & FINAL Stage Allahu ahsanu alkhaliqeena

@Wayfinder

What you are describing is the stage of Mudghah, which means something which has been chewed or which has the appearance of having been chewed

"Khalaqna" (creation, formation, initiation). This means that there is an active process of development. Throughout the embryo there is active differentiation in almost every system.

Confirmation of this 'active differentiation' in the following ayah

.... thumma min mudghatin mukhallaqatin waghayri mukhallaqatin linubayyina lakum / then out of an embryonic lump complete and yet incom?plete so that We might make clear unto you

or "partly differentiated and partly undifferentiated"

"Thumma" in Arabic is a conjunction indicating a time lag and the Ayah will, therefore, mean that after some time this phase will END where another phase BEGINS

That next phase of 'active differentiation' is

thumma anshanahu khalqan akhara /

Ansha 'na Week 28 This is the third and final phase of foetal development. Rapid cell division, differentiation, and growth leads to the formation of a definite human shape

But the foetus is NOT complete at this stage, 'another creature', aspect of development occurs during this stage, that completes the human formation. The foetus may look complete in form, yet it has to be further 'developed' into another 'creation' to survive.

SwedenMajidah

Peace all
No one can till us the Truth about the Unseen, eccept Him, Allah.
God told us that Adam and his wife were the first to live on earth; moreover, he told us that all humans were created from Adam and his Wife (2-36). Thus, the answer to your questions is answered by the Knowledgable of the Unseen.
Now, you will find many people in Free-Minde will give other different answers.
And it will be the test for you choose between God's answer or Others beside him.
Peace

Peace,

Quran 236 So, the devil tricked them from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend, you are enemies of one another. And in the land shall be stability for you and luxary for awile."
this verse says that you are enemies of one another and that doesn't means only Adam and his mate are enemies but all humans.

and in 238 We said " Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me , then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."

this verse then says that they who follow the guidence from God will have nothing to fear, so the conclusions may be that even if we stray alone individual here on earth,
there is hope in the guidance.

Maria

belH

Peace,

Quran 236 So, the devil tricked them from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend, you are enemies of one another. And in the land shall be stability for you and luxary for awile."
this verse says that you are enemies of one another and that doesn't means only Adam and his mate are enemies but all humans.

Peace all
Maria, 236 speaks about Saten as an enemy to Adam, his wife, and all of Adam's future familly (Humans); and not humans enemies to humans

and in 238 We said " Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me , then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."

this verse then says that they who follow the guidence from God will have nothing to fear, so the conclusions may be that even if we stray alone individual here on earth,
there is hope in the guidance.

Maria

Of course, if humans follow the guidence, they are saved.

Peace

WayFinder

FIRST & SECOND Stages AAithaman fakasawna alAAithama lahman THIRD & FINAL Stage Allahu ahsanu alkhaliqeena

@Wayfinder

What you are describing is the stage of Mudghah, which means something which has been chewed or which has the appearance of having been chewed

Peace MTR

Alhamdoulillah, you finally wrote something which is nice and appreciable.... ) May Allah guide us all....

I would like to reply on this... I was not referring to the MUDRA.... I highlighted the part in RED which you did not include in your developmental stage and this was the part which I was focussing on...

The part where it says... AND THEN WE COVERED THE BONES WITH FLESH....

2 clear points on this issue....

BONES ALREADY CREATED AND PRESENT <---
FLESH COVERS ALL THE BONES<---

So, just watch the different development stages and see where these 2 criterias are met... You will eventually see that both of them are met QUITE EARLY when the form of the foetus is still so UNHUMAN-LIKE....

So, from that UNHUMAN-LIKE thing... as the development goes on... it turns into a NEW CREATURE(KHALQAN AAKHAR) which is a FULLY FLEDGED HUMAN BEING...

Thats my view on it...

Allah knows best...

PEACE.

Muslimtruthrevealed

Peace MTR

Alhamdoulillah, you finally wrote something which is nice and appreciable.... May Allah guide us all....

I would like to reply on this... I was not referring to the MUDRA.... I highlighted the part in RED which you did not include in your developmental stage and this was the part which I was focussing on...

The part where it says... AND THEN WE COVERED THE BONES WITH FLESH....

2 clear points on this issue....

BONES ALREADY CREATED AND PRESENT <---
FLESH COVERS ALL THE BONES<---

So, just watch the different development stages and see where these 2 criterias are met... You will eventually see that both of them are met QUITE EARLY when the form of the foetus is still so UNHUMAN-LIKE....

So, from that UNHUMAN-LIKE thing... as the development goes on... it turns into a NEW CREATURE(KHALQAN AAKHAR) which is a FULLY FLEDGED HUMAN BEING...

Thats my view on it...

Allah knows best...

PEACE.

Assalaam Alaikum

@Wayfinder, Please do not insult me or my intelligence. Your condescending remarks are glaringly insincere and judgemental to a fault.

But again, I would like you to to understand, my intention, YOU are NOT the topic or focus, you are just a 'means to an end'.

How YOU or others 'feel' about me 'personally' is NOT important. The objective is to convey the guidance.

I notice that you did NOT consider ANYTHING I posted in response. I gave you word meanings and context, and you 'missed' the point and the definitives.

@Wayfinder your 'assumption' in this statement "NEW CREATURE(KHALQAN AAKHAR) which is a FULLY FLEDGED HUMAN BEING..." is NOT true

Again, "Thumma" in Arabic is a conjunction indicating a time lag and the Ayah will, therefore, mean that after some time this phase will END where another phase BEGINS

"Khalaq" (creation, formation, initiation). This means that there is an active process of development. Throughout the embryo there is active differentiation in almost every system.

The foetus is NOT a "FULLY FLEDGED HUMAN BEING". There is still development of 'akhara meaning another, another of two' aspect of Creation, that completes the human form and function.

So with that, I will continue to address the initial question.

What is this 'other creation' that Allah is developing from the physical human form?

WayFinder