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  4. The Great Miriam Dilemma

The Great Miriam Dilemma

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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    Rami
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Hey friends,
    One of the very strong arguments placed against the Quran is that of Miriam. Miriam, in the Quran, as you already know is simply the daughter of Amram and aslo called the sister of Aaron. How can that be if Jesus comes ages later? The weirdest thing that the sister of Moses is mentioned but not by name!?

    2039 That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea, so the sea will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.
    2040 That your sister should follow, and say Shall I guide you to a person who will nurse him Thus We returned you to your mother, so that she may be pleased and not be sad. And you killed a person, but We saved you from harm and We tested you greatly. So it was that you stayed with the people of Midyan for many years, then you came here by fate O Moses.
    2041 And I Have raised you for Myself.
    2810 And Moses mothers heart became anxious, that she nearly revealed her identity. But We strengthened her heart, so that she would be of the believers.
    2811 And she said to his sister Follow his path. So she watched him from afar, while they did not notice.
    2812 And We forbade him from accepting all the nursing mothers. Then his sister said Shall I lead you to a family that can nurse him for you, and take good care of him?"

    See how the Quran doesn't mention the name of the sister of Moses and never mention his father, but we know that Aaron is the brother of Moses! So why does the Torah insist that Amram is the father and Miriam is the sister of Moses?? Even if you say that Miriam is from the 'Aaronic sisterhood', you still have to explain the Amram's daughter part which still pushes Miriam back in time. Or maybe Joshua is Jesus which can put an end to the NT faster than ever! This is another argument of the mutual exclusivesness between the Quran and the Torah. It is one way or the other. Or maybe its another Aaron and another Miriam and another Amram (creepy) brickwall What do you think?

    Peace.

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    • U Offline
      U Offline
      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Hey friends,
      One of the very strong arguments placed against the Quran is that of Miriam. Miriam, in the Quran, as you already know is simply the daughter of Amram and aslo called the sister of Aaron. How can that be if Jesus comes ages later? The weirdest thing that the sister of Moses is mentioned but not by name!?

      2039 ?That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea, so the sea will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.?
      2040 ?That your sister should follow, and say ?Shall I guide you to a person who will nurse him? Thus We returned you to your mother, so that she may be pleased and not be sad. And you killed a person, but We saved you from harm and We tested you greatly. So it was that you stayed with the people of Midyan for many years, then you came here by fate O Moses.?
      2041 ?And I Have raised you for Myself.?
      2810 And Moses? mother?s heart became anxious, that she nearly revealed her identity. But We strengthened her heart, so that she would be of the believers.
      2811 And she said to his sister ?Follow his path.? So she watched him from afar, while they did not notice.
      2812 And We forbade him from accepting all the nursing mothers. Then his sister said ?Shall I lead you to a family that can nurse him for you, and take good care of him?"

      See how the Quran doesn't mention the name of the sister of Moses and never mention his father, but we know that Aaron is the brother of Moses! So why does the Torah insist that Amram is the father and Miriam is the sister of Moses?? Even if you say that Miriam is from the 'Aaronic sisterhood', you still have to explain the Amram's daughter part which still pushes Miriam back in time. Or maybe Joshua is Jesus which can put an end to the NT faster than ever! This is another argument of the mutual exclusivesness between the Quran and the Torah. It is one way or the other. Or maybe its another Aaron and another Miriam and another Amram (creepy) brickwall What do you think?

      Peace.

      Salam Rami,

      There are two different Mariums being referenced. There is Moses and Aaron's sister, Marium, who was a Prophetess.
      And there is Jesus' Mother who is named Marium as well.
      All the scriptures of the Abrahamic faith are in harmony jedi

      Salam,
      Arnab

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      • R Offline
        R Offline
        Rami
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Salam Rami,

        There are two different Mariums being referenced. There is Moses and Aaron's sister, Marium, who was a Prophetess.
        And there is Jesus' Mother who is named Marium as well.
        All the scriptures of the Abrahamic faith are in harmony jedi

        Salam,
        Arnab

        Peace Arnab, (is that your real name or the alias rabbit? laugh)

        Therefore Miriam, the prophetess is NOT Jesus' mother. Lets see

        Exd 1520 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

        1927 Then she came to her people carrying him. They said O Mary, you have come with something totally unexpected!
        1928 O sister of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, and your mother was never unchaste!
        1929 So she pointed to him. They said How can we talk to someone who is a child in a cradle?
        1930 He said I am Gods servant, He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

        Unless you are saying there are two Aarons and two Amrams. Who cloned these guys laugh

        Peace.

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        • S Offline
          S Offline
          siki
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          hmm this is turning out to be interesting

          siki

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          • R Offline
            R Offline
            Rami
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            hmm this is turning out to be interesting

            siki

            and complicated too. Jesus of the NT could be very well be fictional as this man is like similar to many guys in the past including Joshua.

            http//www.near-death.com/experiences/origen044.html
            http//www.near-death.com/experiences/origen045.html
            http//www.near-death.com/experiences/origen046.html
            http//www.near-death.com/experiences/origen047.html
            http//www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html

            Could the NT be simply black propaganda from Rome.
            http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2771279923052024503&hl=en

            Sweet!

            Peace.

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            • H Offline
              H Offline
              huruf
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              What I read long time ago is that calling Mary sister of Aaron is merely a way of saying that she belongs to a priestly caste or family. I can't see any contradiction in calling mary that, whether it is just done in the Quran or whether it was a usage in Mary's time.

              The Quran is not confusing two events. It is using certain expression.

              Salaam

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              • A Offline
                A Offline
                afridi220
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Hey friends,
                One of the very strong arguments placed against the Quran is that of Miriam. Miriam, in the Quran, as you already know is simply the daughter of Amram and aslo called the sister of Aaron. How can that be if Jesus comes ages later? The weirdest thing that the sister of Moses is mentioned but not by name!?

                2039 ?That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea, so the sea will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.?
                2040 ?That your sister should follow, and say ?Shall I guide you to a person who will nurse him? Thus We returned you to your mother, so that she may be pleased and not be sad. And you killed a person, but We saved you from harm and We tested you greatly. So it was that you stayed with the people of Midyan for many years, then you came here by fate O Moses.?
                2041 ?And I Have raised you for Myself.?
                2810 And Moses? mother?s heart became anxious, that she nearly revealed her identity. But We strengthened her heart, so that she would be of the believers.
                2811 And she said to his sister ?Follow his path.? So she watched him from afar, while they did not notice.
                2812 And We forbade him from accepting all the nursing mothers. Then his sister said ?Shall I lead you to a family that can nurse him for you, and take good care of him?"

                See how the Quran doesn't mention the name of the sister of Moses and never mention his father, but we know that Aaron is the brother of Moses! So why does the Torah insist that Amram is the father and Miriam is the sister of Moses?? Even if you say that Miriam is from the 'Aaronic sisterhood', you still have to explain the Amram's daughter part which still pushes Miriam back in time. Or maybe Joshua is Jesus which can put an end to the NT faster than ever! This is another argument of the mutual exclusivesness between the Quran and the Torah. It is one way or the other. Or maybe its another Aaron and another Miriam and another Amram (creepy) brickwall What do you think?

                Peace.

                Please forget about jews when you talk about Quran, Mariam was an orphan whos mother give birth at an old age and died and there was a fight in juruslam who ell sponsor her and they cast a lot and Zakria won it .
                Plaese Read Quaran and then post such questions. elektro

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                  arnoldyasin
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Peace,

                  Rami, I recommend first reading for example the commentary of Muhammed Ali's Quran translation on these verses before jumping to these faulty conclusions and believing all these misunderstandings of the Quran.

                  Mary is not a name but a title. It means baroness/lady. For example, Mary Magdelene means Lady of Magdelene, meaning she was the ruling person of that area. Mary belongs to the family of Aaron, the priestly class called the Levi. This was the royal bloodline and was and is very important in ancient and modern Judaism.

                  Modern descendendants of the Levi are for example the Cohen family who occupy high offices all around the world. The major of Amsterdam, capital of Holland, is a Cohen.

                  Jesus, or Yoshua was a priest of the Aaron family who led a rebellion against the Roman occupance in Palestine. The persons who led the first revolt in 66 were family of Jesus and also part of the royal bloodline.

                  The New-Testament is a Roman propaganda story that tries to twist the original story by making Jesus pro-Roman instead of the main rebellion leader. An amazing task which has succeeded. How can Jesus walk through Galilea peacefully while in Roman records it is recorded as the main area of rebellion and of constant fighting? Also the Mount of Olives which Jesus and his companions occupy a lot, was mentioned as a headquarters of rebellion.

                  I recommend these books

                  http//www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jesus-Unlocking-Christianity/dp/014025773X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678826&sr=1-1

                  http//www.amazon.com/Jesus-Empire-Kingdom-World-Disorder/dp/080063490X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678969&sr=1-1

                  http//www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Code-Damascus-Covenant/dp/1842931164/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678826&sr=1-3

                  http//www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Legacy-Bloodline-Conspiracy-Revelations/dp/1578634032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678904&sr=1-1

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                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    belH
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    See how the Quran doesn't mention the name of the sister of Moses and never mention his father, but we know that Aaron is the brother of Moses! So why does the Torah insist that Amram is the father and Miriam is the sister of Moses??

                    Salam all
                    The Quran confirms the Torah
                    Aron is the brother of Moses
                    Mariam is the daughter of Amran, who came ages after Moses and his brother Aron.
                    Mariam had a brother, who is named after Moses brother-Aron.
                    It is very comment to have Moses and Aron names within the childer of Israel during Jesus time and untill today.
                    Now it will be nice if you show me a verse from Quran shows that Moses sister is named Mariam.
                    Peace

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                    • A Offline
                      A Offline
                      afridi220
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Salam all
                      The Quran confirms the Torah
                      Aron is the brother of Moses
                      Mariam is the daughter of Amran, who came ages after Moses and his brother Aron.
                      Mariam had a brother, who is named after Moses brother-Aron.
                      It is very comment to have Moses and Aron names within the childer of Israel during Jesus time and untill today.
                      Now it will be nice if you show me a verse from Quran shows that Moses sister is named Mariam.
                      Peace

                      Is that vulture or a eagle looks hungr give him some piza !

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                      • B Offline
                        B Offline
                        belH
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Is that vulture or a eagle looks hungr give him some piza !

                        I did, thanks

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                        0
                        • R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Rami
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Salam all
                          The Quran confirms the Torah
                          Aron is the brother of Moses
                          Mariam is the daughter of Amran, who came ages after Moses and his brother Aron.
                          Mariam had a brother, who is named after Moses brother-Aron.
                          It is very comment to have Moses and Aron names within the childer of Israel during Jesus time and untill today.
                          Now it will be nice if you show me a verse from Quran shows that Moses sister is named Mariam.
                          Peace

                          Ok agreed, what is the other Amram of the the Torah? There is no verse in the Quran that says the sister of Moses is called Miriam. Who is Miriam of the Torah?

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                          0
                          • R Offline
                            R Offline
                            Rami
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Peace,

                            Rami, I recommend first reading for example the commentary of Muhammed Ali's Quran translation on these verses before jumping to these faulty conclusions and believing all these misunderstandings of the Quran.

                            Mary is not a name but a title. It means baroness/lady. For example, Mary Magdelene means Lady of Magdelene, meaning she was the ruling person of that area. Mary belongs to the family of Aaron, the priestly class called the Levi. This was the royal bloodline and was and is very important in ancient and modern Judaism.

                            Modern descendendants of the Levi are for example the Cohen family who occupy high offices all around the world. The major of Amsterdam, capital of Holland, is a Cohen.

                            Jesus, or Yoshua was a priest of the Aaron family who led a rebellion against the Roman occupance in Palestine. The persons who led the first revolt in 66 were family of Jesus and also part of the royal bloodline.

                            The New-Testament is a Roman propaganda story that tries to twist the original story by making Jesus pro-Roman instead of the main rebellion leader. An amazing task which has succeeded. How can Jesus walk through Galilea peacefully while in Roman records it is recorded as the main area of rebellion and of constant fighting? Also the Mount of Olives which Jesus and his companions occupy a lot, was mentioned as a headquarters of rebellion.

                            I recommend these books

                            http//www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jesus-Unlocking-Christianity/dp/014025773X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678826&sr=1-1

                            http//www.amazon.com/Jesus-Empire-Kingdom-World-Disorder/dp/080063490X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678969&sr=1-1

                            http//www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Code-Damascus-Covenant/dp/1842931164/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678826&sr=1-3

                            http//www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Legacy-Bloodline-Conspiracy-Revelations/dp/1578634032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226678904&sr=1-1

                            Agreed and thanks for the links.

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              belH
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Ok agreed, what is the other Amram of the the Torah? There is no verse in the Quran that says the sister of Moses is called Miriam. Who is Miriam of the Torah?

                              Mariam is a common name in the children of Israel; thus, Moses had a sister named mariam... yes

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                              • R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Rami
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Mariam is a common name in the children of Israel; thus, Moses had a sister named mariam... yes

                                only way out bravo

                                Peace

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                                • J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  Jafar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  What I read long time ago is that calling Mary sister of Aaron is merely a way of saying that she belongs to a priestly caste or family. I can't see any contradiction in calling mary that, whether it is just done in the Quran or whether it was a usage in Mary's time.

                                  The Quran is not confusing two events. It is using certain expression.

                                  Salaam

                                  This is the best answer...
                                  Mary a.k.a Miriam is a member of "Aaron Order/Family/Group".
                                  Aaron Order is a well respected order within Jewish Culture at that period, known for their 'strict' moral code and virtues.

                                  Calling somebody "Sister / Brother of <put your order/group here>"
                                  is a habit that still exist in many christians sects / culture even today.

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                                  • E Offline
                                    E Offline
                                    easternqibla
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    It is true that Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron is not the same as Miriam(Mary) the mother of Jesus. So why the connection? Why is the mother of Jesus called the sister of Aaron? Apart from saying that "calling Mary sister of Aaron is merely a way of saying that she belongs to a priestly caste or family", is there a deeper meaning?

                                    The Jewish Encyclopedia states that Miriam was "regarded as the savior of Israel". Given the importance of Jesus Christ, making such a link between the two Miriams/Marys is certainly significant. Moreover

                                    Eusebius, writing in Palestine early in the fourth century, knew Christians who understood Psalm 110.3 differently. The Hebrew mrhm, ?from the womb?, was read as mrym, ?Miriam?, which is perfectly possible if they were using the archaic Hebrew script in which the letters h and y are similar. The line would then have been ?With dew I have begotten you as the Morning Star from Miriam/Mary.?
                                    http//www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/USU_Barker.pdf

                                    Now to be 'begotten' in this sense is to shine with the Light of Allah; that is all. (" 'While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.' These things Jesus spoke ..." John 1236) Yet significantly to shine with the Light of Allah is described as being born of Miriam (compare Muhammad's wives are the mothers of the believers 336). This is why it is significant that the mother of the Messiah is also called Miriam/Mary. The mother of Jesus renews Judaism by being ordained by God to bring the Light of Allah back to Judaism by giving birth to Christ.

                                    However, Mary the mother of Christ is not actually the same person as Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses. For example, when John the Baptist was asked if he was Elijah, he said that he wasn't (John 121), yet Jesus described him as being the "Elijah who is to come" (Matthew 1113-14; also the prophesy about Elijah coming in Malachi 45, 6 is quoted at the annunciation of John's conception, Luke 117). So we can see that John the Baptist was not the same person as Elijah, but was called Elijah because as Elijah was a great man in Israel, so too would John be (there is a lot of symbolism going on in Elijah, but I can write about this later if you want).

                                    It is the fulfilment of a symbol that is implied. The Torah had the symbol, the Gospel the Reality.

                                    Richard

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                                      G Offline
                                      GODsubmitter
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      It is true that Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron is not the same as Miriam(Mary) the mother of Jesus. So why the connection? Why is the mother of Jesus called the sister of Aaron? Apart from saying that "calling Mary sister of Aaron is merely a way of saying that she belongs to a priestly caste or family", is there a deeper meaning?

                                      The Jewish Encyclopedia states that Miriam was "regarded as the savior of Israel". Given the importance of Jesus Christ, making such a link between the two Miriams/Marys is certainly significant. Moreover

                                      Now to be 'begotten' in this sense is to shine with the Light of Allah; that is all. (" 'While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.' These things Jesus spoke ..." John 1236) Yet significantly to shine with the Light of Allah is described as being born of Miriam (compare Muhammad's wives are the mothers of the believers 336). This is why it is significant that the mother of the Messiah is also called Miriam/Mary. The mother of Jesus renews Judaism by being ordained by God to bring the Light of Allah back to Judaism by giving birth to Christ.

                                      However, Mary the mother of Christ is not actually the same person as Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses. For example, when John the Baptist was asked if he was Elijah, he said that he wasn't (John 121), yet Jesus described him as being the "Elijah who is to come" (Matthew 1113-14; also the prophesy about Elijah coming in Malachi 45, 6 is quoted at the annunciation of John's conception, Luke 117). So we can see that John the Baptist was not the same person as Elijah, but was called Elijah because as Elijah was a great man in Israel, so too would John be (there is a lot of symbolism going on in Elijah, but I can write about this later if you want).

                                      It is the fulfilment of a symbol that is implied. The Torah had the symbol, the Gospel the Reality.

                                      Richard

                                      Thank you Richard for this excellent explanation.

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                                      • B Offline
                                        B Offline
                                        Bigmo
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Hey friends,
                                        One of the very strong arguments placed against the Quran is that of Miriam. Miriam, in the Quran, as you already know is simply the daughter of Amram and aslo called the sister of Aaron. How can that be if Jesus comes ages later? The weirdest thing that the sister of Moses is mentioned but not by name!?

                                        2039 ?That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea, so the sea will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.?
                                        2040 ?That your sister should follow, and say ?Shall I guide you to a person who will nurse him? Thus We returned you to your mother, so that she may be pleased and not be sad. And you killed a person, but We saved you from harm and We tested you greatly. So it was that you stayed with the people of Midyan for many years, then you came here by fate O Moses.?
                                        2041 ?And I Have raised you for Myself.?
                                        2810 And Moses? mother?s heart became anxious, that she nearly revealed her identity. But We strengthened her heart, so that she would be of the believers.
                                        2811 And she said to his sister ?Follow his path.? So she watched him from afar, while they did not notice.
                                        2812 And We forbade him from accepting all the nursing mothers. Then his sister said ?Shall I lead you to a family that can nurse him for you, and take good care of him?"

                                        See how the Quran doesn't mention the name of the sister of Moses and never mention his father, but we know that Aaron is the brother of Moses! So why does the Torah insist that Amram is the father and Miriam is the sister of Moses?? Even if you say that Miriam is from the 'Aaronic sisterhood', you still have to explain the Amram's daughter part which still pushes Miriam back in time. Or maybe Joshua is Jesus which can put an end to the NT faster than ever! This is another argument of the mutual exclusivesness between the Quran and the Torah. It is one way or the other. Or maybe its another Aaron and another Miriam and another Amram (creepy) brickwall What do you think?

                                        Peace.

                                        Mary, mother of Jesus or sister of Aaron?

                                        by Rasheed,

                                        Question How did the Quran reveal the story of the birth of Jesus so accurately?

                                        The Quran depicts the scene of the virgin Maryam (Mary) bringing her new born baby, Jesus, to meet her people and they reprmanded her saying

                                        And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!
                                        Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,
                                        And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.
                                        So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal.

                                        Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said O Mary! Thou hast come with a strange thing,

                                        O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother a harlot.
                                        But she pointed to him. They said How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle? He said Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet; And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed; And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.

                                        (The Quran, 19 23-33, Maryam)

                                        Some Western writers and orientalist critics of Islam suggested that this was a huge error on the part of Prophet Muhammad, claiming that he confused Maryam dughter of Imran and the sister of Moses, with Maryam daughter of Imran, the mother of Jesus. Peace be upon them all.

                                        However, recent discoveries and translation of the ancient Dead Sea Scrolls, completely vindicate the Quranic narration of the story and explains why Mary (Maryam) was addressed as ?sister of Aaron? ?..

                                        The Dead Sea Scrolls reveal that the Jewish communities at that time , referred to their religous leaders as the ?Priests of Aaron?. It is also revealed that they were expecting the arrival of TWO messiahs, known as the Messiah of Aaron and the Messiah of David (see scroll 1QS IX 9?11).
                                        Another quotation from Dead Sea Scrolls (Community Rules Document) spoke of

                                        ?In the society of the Yahad there shall be twelve laymen and three priests who are blameless in the light of all that has been revealed from the whole Law, so as to work truth, righteousness, justice, living-kindness, and humility, one with another. They are to preserve faith in the land with self-control and a broken spirit, atoning for sin by working justice and suffering affliction. They are to walk with all by the standard of truth and the dictates proper to the age.?

                                        ?When such men as these come to be in Israel, then shall the society of the Yahad truly be established, an ?eternal planing? (Jubilees 1626), a temple for Israel, and ? mystery! ? a Holy of Holies for Aaron; true witnesses to justice, chosen by God?s will to atone for the land and to recompense the wicked their due. They will be ?the tested wall, the precious cornerstone? (Isa. 2816) whose foundations shall neither be shaken nor swayed, a fortress, a Holy of Holies for Aaron, all of them knowing the Covenant of Justice and thereby offering a sweet savor. They shall be a blameless and true house in Israel, ?upholding the covenant of eternal statutes. They shall be an acceptable sacrifice, atoning for the land and ringing in the verdict against evil, so that perversity ceases to exist.?

                                        • Community Rule 1QS 8.1-10

                                        I will also quote the Damascus Document -from the Dead Scrolls- in another remarkable text

                                        ?The Lord remembered the covenant of the ancients, and raised from Aaron men of understanding, and from Israel men of wisdom. He made His law known to them, and they dug the well. ?The well that princes dug, that the nobles of the people delved with the staff? (Numbers 211. ? The ?well? is the Torah, its ?diggers? are the repentant ones of Israel who left the Land of Judah and dwelt in the Land of Damascus.?

                                        • Damascus Document ? Geniza manuscript A 6.2-5

                                        Mary was descendant of a highly regarded religous family. Is it any wonder that she was addressed as ?sister of Aaron??. It seems to be the natural thing for those who knew her piety and zeal to the Law to address her in that way.

                                        In fact, referring to Mary as sister of Aaron, is an amazing Quranic narration which prophet Muhammad (pbuh) could not have known without revelation, and is one remarkable demonstration of the fact that the Quran is indeed the revealed words of GOD, exalted.

                                        http//hardquestions.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/7/

                                        we need to look into alternative sources to understand the Quran and the audience the Quran is refering to on occasions.

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                                          easternqibla
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                                          Thank you Richard for this excellent explanation.

                                          Thank you for the encouragement. Life is hell at the moment and the encouragement is welcome! But it is true, Christians should be praising the Quran for such things, not criticising it. Here's some more

                                          • Quran And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!
                                          Bible Song of Songs 85 "Who is this coming up from the wilderness Leaning on her beloved?" "Beneath the apple tree I awakened you; There your mother was in labor with you, There she was in labor and gave you birth.

                                          This is the symbolism of the temple the 7 branched lampstand the menorah was symbolically described as a tree, of varying kinds. 'Giving birth' in the temple refers to priests shining with the Light of Allah in the temple. The menorah 'tree' was by the Holy of Holies in the temple, hence they shone with Light ('were born&#039 under the Menorah. What was symbolized in the temple came true with Mary and Jesus.

                                          • Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,

                                          Since ancient times there has been an icon of Mary the Life-giving Spring, coming from the same symbolism as this.

                                          • And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.

                                          In the Song of Songs 77-8 the female being addresses is described as being a palm tree.

                                          However, Mary is not only described as being the 'sister of Aaron', but also as the 'daughter of Imran' Sura 6612. This does seems to imply that it is not referring to some special religious group (such as Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist being referred to as "from the daughters of Aaron", Luke 15, probably a group of women devoted to certain aspects of the temple). And here is why I think so

                                          It is also revealed that they were expecting the arrival of TWO messiahs, known as the Messiah of Aaron and the Messiah of David (see scroll 1QS IX 911).

                                          And there were two Messiahs - remember the word messiah just means anointed. The original anointing oil used to anoint priests in Solomon's temple was lost, so the priests in the second temple (516bc to 70ad) were not anointed. The Magi visiting Jesus as a baby has been suggested as the lost anointing being returned (somewhere in the book "Christmas, The Original Story", written by a former President of the Old Testament Society I know it was this book which caused me to look more into Islam).

                                          We know who the Messiah of David was, Jesus. But what about the Messiah of Aaron?

                                          There is a reference to a messiah in the Book of Daniel, 924-27. It talks about 'seventy weeks', which refers to 70 times 7 days. Now the Day of Atonement occurred once a year, and so a symbolic way of talking about years was to refer to days. Basing herself on the old Jubilee (49 years) cycle, the same former President of the Old Testament Society writes

                                          The seventy weeks of years, 490 years, were ten Jubilees, and the alternative way of reckoning this period was as ten Jubilees. Jewish tradition remembered that the 490 years ended in 68CE; calculation from the second temple Jubilee sequence beginning in 424BCE gives 66CE. A two year discrepancy is hardly significant in the light of what this implies, namely that the tenth Jubilee began in 17/19 CE. In other words, tenth Jubilee fervour and expectations were the context for the ministry of Jesus.
                                          http//www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/JesusAndTheJubilee.pdf

                                          Now we read also in the Book of Daniel that

                                          "And after the sixty-two weeks {after a previous 7 weeks} Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
                                          But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering..."
                                          Daniel 926-27

                                          People have tried to link this with Jesus, but it does not fit. The 69th 'week' (out of the 70) started in about 66-7=59AD. In the 'middle of the week' is therefore about 59+3.5=62.5 = 62/63AD. Yet there was someone significant who was killed by the Jews then James the (half) brother of Jesus. He was killed in 62AD. He was also a Jewish High Priest (hence the Aaron link)

                                          Since it was unlawful for anyone but the High Priest of the Temple to enter the Holy of Holies, and then only once a year on Yom Kippur, Jerome's quotation from Hegesippus indicates that James was considered a High Priest. The Pseudo-Clementine Recognitions suggest this.
                                          http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_the_Just#Life

                                          It is also recorded that Jerusalem was safe from the Romans while he was alive. But because the Jews murdered him, God removed his protection from the city and in 70AD the Romans destroyed Jerusalem with its temple ("the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering&quot.

                                          The thing is, Miriam is linked with the king (David, or Moses) and Aaron. Hence it would appear that whereas old Israel had Miriam, Moses, and Aaron, the renewed Israel had Mary, Jesus, and James - symbolised by calling Mary not only 'sister of Aaron' but also as being from Imran.

                                          Richard

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