Lengthen Your Garments?
-
Peace
It annoys me when I ask someone a question and they skirt the issue. Truth, you were asked a question which you did not answer and now you are resorting to guessing at one's ignorance. Let's be civil and stop taking the wrong exemplars .
Kill your ego .
Joe
I don't agree with this translation of the verse, but egoannihilation philosophy is interesting, and one can definately see the ego as a satan. And the following statement supports that
"All that I know, is from elsewhere. Ultimately God." - So God is the only one to be praised ;D
-
peace t, all,
If this context is not there in the world anymore, then al-quran itself will be disproved.
No it will not. The Quran often discusses situations that may not be present today but can still occur and gives us guidance on how to proceed under such situations if they occur. For example, chapter 9.
There will always be people who will try to harm the believers by spreading lies about them and slandering them.
The verses discusses significant open enmity, as previously mentioned in this thread, not "spreading lies" or "slander". Of course, this may a component but when it discusses adopting a modification of dress in order to be recognised, this clearly implies what is taking place is direct to the person.
The only way this context will not apply anymore is when 100 % of the world's population is believers.
Wrong. The context may not apply in a very common situation and that is living in a community or country in which such open enmity does not take place. I know where I live muslims are not harassed like this.
Forget 100 % believers, the majority will always be disbelievers, so there will always be the possibility of harm to the believing women.
Of course there will always be a possibility of harm to any person, not just women or believers, in any community. These verses are not discussing a "possibility", they are discussing significant open enmity, this is fact.
Of course 3359 is about believing women's dress. How can one say it is not? Of course the context is harm to the believing women, and God is giving a clear command for the believing women to lengthen their garments so they are recognized by the way they dress which will distinguish them from the disbelieving women, and thus not harmed, because of the way they dress. This context of harm will ALWAYS be present in this world, so the believing women should always dress as commanded in 3359 in public.
As previously said, of course there will always be a possibility of harm to anyone in any community but these verses are not discussing potential harm, they are discussing significant open enmity. This is a big difference.
Even if you claim that all the people in a certain community are believers, so women don't have to lengthen their garments, how will you avoid the hypocrites? Only God knows what is in the hearts. So it is more prudent and safe for the believing women to ALWAYS lengthen their garments in public.
Again, you fail to realise the verses discuss clear open direct hostility/enmity. This is very easy to recognise, thus your point about hypocrites and what is in the hearts is completely null and void.
When God commands believing women to lengthen their garments so they will be recognized, this clearly implies that disbelieving women are more likely to not lengthen their dresses. Otherwise how will the believing women be recognized and distinguished from the disbelieving women to prevent harm from occurring to them, when both believing women and disbelieving women lengthen their garments? Now from this, I am not saying that those who do not lengthen their dresses are disbelievers, but what I mean is that the disbelievers are more likely to not lengthen their garments!
Your opening line conveniently neglects the whole picture, but it should read
When God commands believing women to lengthen their garments so they will be recognized and not harmed in this hostile situation...
Your version implies a general rule.
Also, let's clarify it is discussing modification of the jilbab which is an outergarment. A dress is unlikely to fit into this category. Perhaps it means lengthening or drawing near or lowering but what modification is not that important for our discussion, but what is clear is it is an outergarment. See Classical Arabic dictionaries.
Now if believing women start dressing the same way as most of the disbelieving women, and start wearing short dresses (which includes short sleeves) then how will the disbelievers be able to distinguish between the two, and recognize the believing women and thus not harm them beause of fear of being overpowered and driven out of the neighborhood by the believers if they harm the believing women, as per 3360?
It was no doubt true during this revelation during the prophet's time, but you seem to imply that this is a common experience! I dont know where you live, but do "disbelievers" commonly show open hostility to women but before they do so they take a straw poll and ask whether they are believers or not? And they dont finish there, depending on how they answer they then proceed to take a measuring tape out and measure the length of their dress before deciding to insult them or not..... and if it's too long they just walk away?! Is that what you want us to believe? This is the height of nonsense.
We should peacefully submit to God's commands insead of submitting to our egos/desires and then twisting God's words to justify our egos/desires.
Through discussion and weighing of evidence/logic/etc we can then determine the best meaning and follow it.
The verses discuss a significantly hostile situation and a practical solution to the problem. Note, the problem exists first, a solution is then put forward.
In a previous thread on this subject, I discussed an analogy
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16792.0In the UK summer is approaching. If summer is also approaching where you are why not tell your friends and family to wear thicker coats when they go outside. If they ask why, tell them thicker coats are protecting in winter so you think even though the colder winter situation doesn't exist, they should still adopt the protection. See how long they wait before they lock you up in an insane asylum
That comment by Wakas made me laugh
Nervous laughter? )
