How can we be sure that Jesus did not die on the cross?
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Hi everyone. How can we be sure that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross when even secular historians attest to the idea that he did? ???
Well secular scholars take whatever is given to them. And you'll find that many of them are liars.
The easiest way to be sure about Jesus never died on the cross, is to refer to the gospels themself. Aye you heard me right.
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You can't!
The Quran speaks of the prophets killed by the Jews. Which Prophets?
010.094
YUSUFALI If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord so be in no wise of those in doubt.
PICKTHAL And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.The only one to have been gathered up to GOD was Jesus - also in the Quran
004.155
YUSUFALI (They have incurred divine displeasure) In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah's Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
PICKTHAL Then because of their breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelations of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying Our hearts are hardened - Nay, but Allah set a seal upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few -
SHAKIR Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.Which leads right into the Jews claiming that they killed Jesus, but Mohammad knows that although He was crucified His soul did not die and it was all the plan of GOD that HE had complete control over the whole situation. At the end He raises Jesus up to sit on His right side.
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salam paladingirl.
when even secular historians attest to the idea that he did?
we have two opposing statements, and the analysis of forensic experts.
allah says in the quran that jesus did not die on the cross, but it was made to appear that he did.
secular historians, who were not present at the crucifiction, and are notorious for creating false histories, attest to the idea that he did.
forensic experts state, using the facts as stated in the gospels, he could not have died on the cross.allah makes no mistakes. secular historians are notorious for making mistakes. forensic experts make some mistakes.
my choice is to rely upon allah who makes no mistakes.
on whom do you rely?allah is the truth.
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Im suprised at the amount poeple will trash secular scholars here. Its sad to think that even people Here will generalise members of the same group because of a diffirence between them and yourselves. (sounds a bit like another group we're all familiar with) Can you honestly say you would have a diffirent opinion towards what a muslim scholar would say?
PaladinGirl, its true you cant be absolutley sure what happened to Jesus. Just about anything said about Jesus holds about the same ammount of support.
The truth about it is that the Quran says that Jesus did not die. Those who believe it will continue to believe that, even if physical evidence is brought against thier belief. You should believe what you believe is correct.
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Peace Pvb,
The only one to have been gathered up to GOD was Jesus - also in the Quran... At the end He raises Jesus up to sit on His right side.
What exactly do you mean by saying Jesus was the only one "gathered up to GOD"? And why do you say Jesus was raised to sit on God's right side? The Quran doesn't say anything like that, especially not the way most Christians interpret the verses...
This is interpretation of Jewish tradition and scripture. In the Torah, God is mentioned as having hell on His left side and paradise on His right side. So, when Jesus speaks of being raised to be on the "right side" of God, he is talking about God raising him from the grave and placing him in paradise.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Hi everyone. How can we be sure that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross when even secular historians attest to the idea that he did? ???
How can we be sure that this jewish guy who once lived in the area of today Israel, Palestine, Lebanon around 2000 years ago named Jesus DOES exist?
There are no tombs... no bodily remains ever been found...But anyway who cares?
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That's not the same as being crucified.
the point being made is that he did die, now considering he was crucified, we would have to assume IF he didnt die on the cross,, then right after they brought him down...... i dont understand what the point of this thread if its not debating wether he died or not,hes been dead for over 2000 years does it really matter if it were on the cross or not.....
and you should calm yourself down there a bit you seem like you are ready to crucify someone yourself jedi -
the point being made is that he did die, now considering he was crucified, we would have to assume IF he didnt die on the cross,, then right after they brought him down...... i dont understand what the point of this thread if its not debating wether he died or not,hes been dead for over 2000 years does it really matter if it were on the cross or not.....
and you should calm yourself down there a bit you seem like you are ready to crucify someone yourself jediI think the Koran said the Jews didn't kill him and crucify him as they claimed. It didn't say that Jesus wasn't killed or crucified. The Gospel has enough evidence about the crucifiction and resurrection. The Koran never disputed those claims. The Jewish claims are in their Talmud where they also insulted Mary and accused her of prostitution. Read the verses in the Koran again and you would see its talking about the Jewish claims.
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You can't!
The Quran speaks of the prophets killed by the Jews. Which Prophets?
010.094
YUSUFALI If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord so be in no wise of those in doubt.
PICKTHAL And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.The only one to have been gathered up to GOD was Jesus - also in the Quran
004.155
YUSUFALI (They have incurred divine displeasure) In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah's Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
PICKTHAL Then because of their breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelations of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying Our hearts are hardened - Nay, but Allah set a seal upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few -
SHAKIR Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.Which leads right into the Jews claiming that they killed Jesus, but Mohammad knows that although He was crucified His soul did not die and it was all the plan of GOD that HE had complete control over the whole situation. At the end He raises Jesus up to sit on His right side.
Peace,
I think that you are missing the whole point...
Jesus was not only a prophet but A MESSENGER OF GOD and this is approved by the Quran in several instances...
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
JESUS was not only a PROPHET but a RASOOL...
There is no evidence from the Quran that a RASOOL has been killed...
BUT...
There are evidences that Allah has always protected His MESSENGERS through the story of Musa and Isa...
GOD'S SUNNA does not change...
4823 That has been the Way of Allah already with those who passed away before. And you will not find any change in the Way of Allah.
If any of you has evidence of a RASOOL being killed from the Quran.... Then we can take the JESUS case into consoderation... otherwise, it is just a HOAX...
GOD has not allowed his MESSENGERS to be harmed... What if they slay a messenger when the revelation was halfway?? You see the logic??
Regards
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Peace,
It all boils down whether you trust God or not? The Quran is some of God's knowledge. And even if Muhammed was the writer of the Quran, what is the point of denying the crucifixion. Crucified or not, you are still bound by the law. This idea of 'Jesus died for our sins' is not even talked about in the Quran. It could be very well be a later heresy by the church to separate the Torah from their religion.
Peace,
Rami
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the point being made is that he did die, now considering he was crucified, we would have to assume IF he didnt die on the cross,, then right after they brought him down...... i dont understand what the point of this thread if its not debating wether he died or not,hes been dead for over 2000 years does it really matter if it were on the cross or not.....
and you should calm yourself down there a bit you seem like you are ready to crucify someone yourself jediThe question is How can we be sure that Jesus did not die on the cross?
Can we not deviate to where he died, or when he died, or even if he died.
As to crucify, is to kill. A very painful and slow death indeed. If you don't die by being hung on a piece of wood or someone pulls you down before you die, then you didn't die by crucifixion.
The evidence of Jesus not dying by crucifixion, is available in the Gospels.
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The question is How can we be sure that Jesus did not die on the cross?
Can we not deviate to where he died, or when he died, or even if he died.
As to crucify, is to kill. A very painful and slow death indeed. If you don't die by being hung on a piece of wood or someone pulls you down before you die, then you didn't die by crucifixion.
The evidence of Jesus not dying by crucifixion, is available in the Gospels.
Peace
Bring an evidence from the Quran where GOD has allowed the DISBELIEVERS to harm HIS MESSENGERS/RASOOLS first... then we can discuss this further... As far as we know, only NABIS(PROPHETS) were being killed in the past... NO EVIDENCE OF RASOOLS BEING KILLED FROM THE QURAN...
As Allah says, HIS SUNNAH NEVER CHANGES... Sending a messenger is a WHOLE PROCESS... It is not about sending a messenger and leaving him all by himself... Sending a messenger involves preparing the messenger, sending the revelations, protecting the messengers from the people, strenghening his heart and supporting him and so on...
All these said... The fact that JESUS was A MESSENGER.. All these rules applies to him...
Its not whether he died or not... Because his death is a fact and is approved by the Quran... The question is whether these guys were able to harm him and made him undergo this torture....
Would like to get your responses...
NOTE I APPLY THE SAME LOGIC FOR DISMISSING THE MESSENGERSHIP OF RASHAD KHALIFA AND MOST OF THE OTHER FALSE MESSENGERS... SINCE RASHAD KHALIFA WAS ASSASINATED BY THE PEOPLE NOT BELIEVING IN HIM, IT MEANS THAT HE WAS NOT A DIVINE MESSENGER AND GOD DID NOT PROTECT HIM FROM THE PEOPLE AS HE PROTECTED HIS MESSENGERS IN THE PAST... THE RULES DOES NOT CHANGE.
Regards
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The question is How can we be sure that Jesus did not die on the cross?
Can we not deviate to where he died, or when he died, or even if he died.
As to crucify, is to kill. A very painful and slow death indeed. If you don't die by being hung on a piece of wood or someone pulls you down before you die, then you didn't die by crucifixion.
The evidence of Jesus not dying by crucifixion, is available in the Gospels.
well technically, jesus died before the crucifixion, not even like died god says god raised jesus to him, his spirit or soul, was taken out of his body before any haram can be done on him, his body was a living machine but with no soul or spirit and that why god says shubiha lahom, it was made to look like they killed him but infact they only crucified the body....... so no they did not kill him,but they did crucify the body
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well technically, jesus died before the crucifixion, not even like died god says god raised jesus to him, his spirit or soul, was taken out of his body before any haram can be done on him, his body was a living machine but with no soul or spirit and that why god says shubiha lahom, it was made to look like they killed him but infact they only crucified the body....... so no they did not kill him,but they did crucify the body
My God these Quranest are accully believing in cristion faith
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=whxyzrJEjtI
http//answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm -
well technically, jesus died before the crucifixion, not even like died god says god raised jesus to him, his spirit or soul, was taken out of his body before any haram can be done on him, his body was a living machine but with no soul or spirit and that why god says shubiha lahom, it was made to look like they killed him but infact they only crucified the body....... so no they did not kill him,but they did crucify the body
Peace Sister
If God allowed the Jews to crucify the body... Then why GOD says they did not crucify him? How will the jews know that the Spirit was in Jesus or not... For them it would not matter, if as you are saying Jesus was a LIVING MACHINE and they crucified a LIVING MACHINE (Without the spirit of Jesus)... then their claims would be TRUE, indeed they did crucify JESUS... So logically this theory does not stand...
When GOD says THEY DID NOT CRUCIFY him... it means his body, the JESUS that everyone knew at that time, nothing that represent that stand for JESUS , was put on that cross... GOD's words are clear on this... He of course met a natural death at some time later... as all the other messengers BEFORE him and AFTER him did....
Regards
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Peace Sister
If God allowed the Jews to crucify the body... Then why GOD says they did not crucify him? How will the jews know that the Spirit was in Jesus or not... For them it would not matter, if as you are saying Jesus was a LIVING MACHINE and they crucified a LIVING MACHINE (Without the spirit of Jesus)... then their claims would be TRUE, indeed they did crucify JESUS... So logically this theory does not stand...
When GOD says THEY DID NOT CRUCIFY him... it means his body, the JESUS that everyone knew at that time, nothing that represent that stand for JESUS , was put on that cross... GOD's words are clear on this... He of course met a natural death at some time later... as all the other messengers BEFORE him and AFTER him did....
Regards
well this is where you have to think about it spiritually did they really crucify him when he was already dead and with god, can you kill a dead person
hmmmmm your the second person i hear talking about him living longer.............you have any ayat proof to that claim
because abviously someone was crucifiedhttp//www.submission.org/quran/app22.html