I want to know the truth about what the Quran says about messengers
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Dear drfzal,
Dear brother I have not guided you nor it is my duty. I have told you this in my previous post but Your reaction is that I am trying to Guide you. My dear Brother if you pay attention to my previous post then the first question answer tells my view on Guidance clearly. While replying to my post you completely forgot that we are discussing and not guiding each other. During a discussion raising a point based on the rules or laws (which has been made clear previously) is not denying in a False way. You consider my answer as denial which is actually answered according to my understanding.
Do you consider the Arabic as a language of Quran? If your answer is no then I may be at a very low level of understanding so please show me how to reach at your level. Logic (my logic) tells me that nothing works properly unless there is a law or rule governing it. Please show me which Law or laws work behind your way of understanding.
I have told you clearly that my approach is to consider the language as the base for understanding the message but you are telling me that language is not an issue when reading Quran. The way I understood is that you have some other way of understanding message of Quran. Actually now it is your duty to show me your laws or rules if any.
Please tell me what is the base of your understanding when it comes to Quran. If it is humility then kindly explain to me what do you mean by that. It seems to me that you are trying to teach me Humility. Can you tell me What is humility?Humility in the dictionary available to me tells " a lack of false pride". I have told you my basic but on the other hand you are showing me my denial to your understanding as an arrogant behavior. Arrogance is definitely against humility but is it possible that you answer my question clearly because it seems that You are far higher place than me regarding understanding of Quran's message.
Your translation regarding 244 is also quite away from the the basic laws i consider but i am not going to go in that because you don't take that as right approach.
Regards.
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Dear khyaletanzim,
The Inspiration or 'Wahy' is a 'feel' in one's heart and soul which is a Guidance from "The Unseen Wisdom" embedded in one's mind, by way impression, by the Almighty Allah. From this wordless feel of the wisdom, Allah creates the expression by way of physical formation i.e., alphabets or syllables, which is the foremost in physical transformation having the greatest feel of the wisdom.
Alif, Laam, Meem, Raa, Qaaf, Ha, Ya, Ain, Saad, Nun, Ta, Seen are the perfect examples of such alphabetically inspired imprint, engraved in the very beginning of various chapters of Quran. Then there are the words, then these, later inspired as idioms, phrases which are the major portions of Quranic verses. And then in the quran there are the incomplete sentences and finally the complete sentences. So there cannot be grammar or humanly developed language system applied to Quran. This is the language of Quran free from grammar and wordiness, for even the unlettered all to read according to each one's ability to stay tuned to the feel of the wisdom. So read slowly, as little by little as possible, ponder over it, so that its wisdom is inspired and felt and its Truth is strengthened in the hearts of the obedient by Allah's leave.
When we have a look at Quran, in most of the ayats where there are linguistic sentences in full form, Allah asks us to think over them, especially where Allah cites parables and examples! Whoever reads Quran he must have the feel of Allah's inspirational Wisdom through and through. As we approach the last chapters of Quran from ch. 78 onwards, mostly the sentences are broken into phrases and idioms and words! Unless we deeply feel for its meanings, prayerfully there is no way we can gain advantage.
Quran is Allah's wisdom; there is no human language applicable to it. The human language in which it is worded and syllabled is to ponder and to feel the Truth of it and thereafter sit pretty as and when its meanings and guidance are inspired into us through Wahy. Believe in Gibraeel who is the chosen messenger from the malayika for us who shall inspire the wisdom of Quran into our hearts! So we believe in Allah; believe in the messenger; believe in the malayika; believe in the messengers from both human and from malayika; believe in the last day.
The meaning of the Highest form of Quranic physical language are in the form of syllables and alphabets that appear as the first Ayat of many chapters. And then in the form of words, and the idioms, and the phrase forms that are sprinkled throughout Quran not applicable to any language system. The syllable forms are meaningless with reference to any language. If we stick to grammar and synonyms and thesaurus, then the arabic language is dumb and deaf to the syllables; idioms and phrases and broken sentences of the verses of Quran! Here is an example to have the feel of the Quran.
Alif Allah Laam La Ilaaha Illallaahu Meem Muthaqeen
Now the meaning is as follows
For those who fear God, there are no gods but Allah who alone suffices them. Now you can have the feel of such other lettered verses of the quran. And then similarly have the inspired feel for the words; idioms; phrases; interrupted sentences and then finally have the inspiration for the full sentences. Now alone the quran has been made handy for you.
Regards.
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Dear drfzal,
I am really impressed that You explain your understanding through wahi. It is a great post telling me that It is God Who gives the Guidance but you completely forgot about my first Question and answer in the previous post. This has been your style from the beginning. You have beautifully undermined the language used by Quran and simultaneously advocated the same letters of Quran according to your understanding.
As we approach the last chapters of Quran from ch. 78 onwards, mostly the sentences are broken into phrases and idioms and words! Unless we deeply feel for its meanings, prayerfully there is no way we can gain advantage.
My dear I don?t know what do you mean by the above explanation but words are with meanings which tell the whole story and if one has the understanding of the Language then it becomes clear even if one word is mentioned. e.g.
931
By the late morning.
932And the night when it falls.
933Your Lord has not left you, nor did He forget.
934And the Hereafter is better for you than the first.
935And your Lord will give you and you will be pleased.
The example provided by you to make me feel the wisdom of Quran was an exception. But that exception of Quran is unfortunately made clear with simple linguistic sentences at many places. I don?t know how come you missed those verses. Allow me to present you the same wisdom with simple linguistically created sentences of Quran. Please see the Arabic too from the Quran.
Alif
1121 Say He is Allah, the One and Only;
2163 And your Allah is One Allah. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
573 They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.Laam
3735 For they, when they were told that there is no god except Allah, would puff themselves up with Pride.
4719 Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.Meem
22 This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt, a guide for those who fear Allah.
3138 Here is a plain statement to men, a guidance and instruction to those who fear Allah.
1997 So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to those who fear Allah, and warnings to people given to contention.
4451 As to those who fear Allah (they will be) in a position of Security,
6948 But verily this is a Message for the Allah-fearing.Now feel my understanding of the words.
Alif=one Laam=man Meem=woman
This is what this chapter is all about. Hope that you will not ask how I came to this conclusion.
Regards.
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Dear brother,
You may be well assured I will not ask how you arrived at a particular understanding; after all we make an understanding for our own guidance; and yet we always look forward to Him for the best guidance for He is the Best of all. Because Allah says gather together once in a while to exchange your ideas and opinions; and choose among the opinions that is better in guidance, suitable to your nature. So, if some 10 members gather and share each of their ideas on the Guidance, there is an exchange among themselves; each one chooses and changes for the guidance better, if any, than their own. Such are the people that are not proud; and with a heart free and pure; and such are the people who Allah guides in righteousness. One important feature in this is, in a gathering for exchange, it is not for voting whose is the best in guidance, but favouring each one to exchange from the choice of 10, helping each other to change for the better. Since in this gathering that there is no pride in each of the individuals; and that there is an inclination towards surrendering to the path of righteousness - Allah guides such of these in even easier way, well suited to each one's own nature. Now each one finds an evolution in guidance whose path is much easier, much broader than the one he has been trekking. All praise be unto Him! And we say " O Allah! Increase us in our Wisdom and Knowledge."
May Allah Bless Us All.
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Dear drfazl,
Thanks for your comments and accepting that this is a debate between different parties to try to understand the message of God. I agree with you that debate is the only way to refine ones understanding. I want to confirm that I was only trying to explain explain my way of understanding and my intention was not to become an authority or Truth. I may have been a little occupied In presenting my way of understanding which gave you an impression that I am trying to pose my understanding on you and if that was the case then I am sorry for that.
Regards.
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Peace all,
False Prophets/ Messengers
Can two people walk together without agreeing to meet? Does a lion roar in the forest unless it has caught a victim? Dose it groal in its den unlessnit is eating? How can anyone catch a bird without using a net? Does a trap spring shut unless something is cought? Isnt the whole city frightened when the trumpet signals an attack? Isnt it the Lord who brings disaster on a city?
Some of you say " We caint read it, because its sealed." Others say" We caint read it, because we dont know how to read." A clay dish doesnt say to the potter," you didnt make me. You dont even know how." The other prophets keep telling everyone that God wont send starvation or war, and Hes going to give peace. And God didnt even speak to them much less choose them to be His prophets ( or messengers ). God never sent Rashad nor the majority of these spiritual world leaders to speak for Him. Yet they have talked their people into believing their lies and rebelling against God. Those lying prophets dont see visions- they make up their own messages. They dont warn the people about coming trouble or tell them how dangerouse it is to sin against God. They say they are preaching Gods message, but they are full of lies. God did not speak to them! They tell Gods peole there will be peace, even thoe theres no peace to be found.
The Lord has made you drowsy; he put you into a deep sleep and covered your head.
The Lord has said " These people praise Me with their words, but they never really think about me. They worship Me by repeating rules made up by humans. So one again I will do things that will shock and amaze them, and I will destroy the wisdom of those who claim to know and understand." But the Lord has filled me with power and His Spirit. I have been given the courage to speak about justice and to tell you people of the Scripture that you have sinned. You have it all backwards. Now His message is like a sealed letter to you. Here is what the Lord says to you prophets " You will live in the dark, far from the sight of the sun, with no message from Me. You prophets and fortuntellers will all be discraced, with no message from Me."
The messenger you desire is coming with Gods promise, and he is on his way. You prophets in Jeruslim are even worse than the prophets in Samarra were. Your unfaithful in marriage and never tell the truth. You and the people of Jeruslim are evil like Sodom and Gomorrah.
You prophets, be shocked and stunned. Refuse to see. Get drunk and stagger, but not from wine. Aalaikum, go and tell the people how you feel about all this. Condemn the prophets who say they speak in My name, but who preach messages that come from there own imagination. Tell them its time to hear Gods message. Listen to my message, you rulers!
If you try to hide your plans from the Lord, you are in for trouble! or if you think what you do in the dark caint be seen. If any such prophets ever appear again being controled by evil spirits, their own parents must warn them that they will die for telling lies in Gods name- the name of the Lord. If these prophets dont stop speaking, their own parents must kill them with a sword. Those lyin prophets say there will be peace and abundant of food. But God say them same prophets will die from war and hunger. And everyone who listens to them will be killed, just as they deserve. Their dead bodies will be thrown out into the streets of Juruslim, because their families will also be dead, and no one will be left to bury them. You prophets and priests think so little of God, the Lord, that you even sin in His own Temple! Now Allah will punish you with disaster, and you will slip and fall in the darkness. Allah will turn against the lyin prophets and no longer let them belong to His people. And someday you rulers will beg the Lord to help you, but He will turn away because of your sins. And those prophets will be ashamed of their so -called visions, and they wont decieve anyone by dressing like a true prophet. Instead, they will say " Im no prophet ( or messeneger). Ive been a farmer all my life." and if any of them are asked why they are wounded, they will answer," It happened at the house of some friende."
Im shocked, and I tremble, when I think of the prophets, like someone drunk, because of the Lord and His Sacred Words. When a lion roars- everyone is terrified- and ordinary people become prophets when the Lord God speaks. Whatever the Lord God plans to do, He tells His servants, the prophets.
O messenegrs, let me remind you and everyonelse that long before we were born, prophets were saying powerful kingdoms would be struck by war, disater and disease. Now these false messengers/prophets are saying we will have peace. We will just have to wait and see if that is really what the Lord has said.
jedi
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the messenger is closer to you then you are to your ownselves. literally you must obey the messager to obey ALLAH. his life is consuming you will simply know more about him and his life then you care about your own and he will have the messege of ALLAH saying believe in me and follow the command of ALLAH. simply explained your parents and their parents had a messenge amongst them. life is all about this event the man who is a manifest sign of ALLAH who calls everyone to faith and righteousness it's the greatest event in your life. if you deny or disobey the messenger then why did ALLAH put you on earth? the quran is pretty much about the messenger in the begin few surahs then in the next few are ayat about the people the message is brought too. read and may ALLAH guide you to clear understanding.
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Peace,
This obey Messenger-thing is one of the most abused arguments. So easy to claim something is from God and then attribute it to a Messenger who merely called to Faith and for people to be good while establishing a system of Justice and sound Judgement.
The Book (Quran) gives clear examples of what the Messengers did and they all had the same mission. Act as warners, deliverers of good news to show that God is still around for those who believe, that they strengthen their Faith and to admonish those who are hypocrites. That they performed "miracles"/signs is just a testament on its own. Through the Grace of God they executed the.
And The Book is also clear that the Message is very simple; plainly put by pure belief and being good. That is echoed throughout the whole book many times. God gives many analogies and narrations from the past but it all falls down on the same agenda of God to boost our inclination to believe and thus also be in the service of God by establishing His system as mentioned above.
Hence I could also be regarded as being a Messenger by telling you this, but I am okay being one of the men and women of Faith.
God bless you