What is Allah's reason for
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Jesus is GOD's WORD made flesh. Jesus is a manifestation of GOD. Jesus is one with GOD.
Read and study John
http//www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/4_John/Yukhnch1.pdf
Ahmad really !?! So sad you missed all the truths about Christianity, the truths that the Quran validates!
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Jesus is GOD's WORD made flesh. Jesus is a manifestation of GOD. Jesus is one with GOD.
Read and study John
http//www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/4_John/Yukhnch1.pdf
Ahmad really !?! So sad you missed all the truths about Christianity, the truths that the Quran validates!
PVB shall i '( OR rotfl -\
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Jesus is GOD's WORD made flesh. Jesus is a manifestation of GOD. Jesus is one with GOD.
pvb ...
i had these questions
Do u really mean that christians follow GOD and not Jesus ?
Or u mean that Jesus is GOD so following Jesus is in fact following GOD ??So shall understand from u that Jesus is GOD ??
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PVB shall i '( OR rotfl -\
Well, I'm gonna cry. & & & & &
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Peace Pvb,
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the One True GOD, a TRUE UNITY.
This is unreasonable. THREE PEOPLE can't be ONE PERSON. That doesn't make any sense at all... If Jesus makes up one-third of the one true god, then why did he pray to "the Father"? This would've been unnecessary, since he would've been actually praying to himself. He also encouraged his followers to pray to this same "Father"; why didn't he instruct them to pray to the son and the holy spirit, if they are also part of God's entity? Let's also examine the concept of the Trinity, which is not mentioned at all in Jesus' words...
Nobody is greater than God. Yet, Jesus said there is one greater than him. "My father is greater than I..." (John 142 If nobody is greater than God, yet the Father is greater than Jesus, then Jesus can't be God.
Jesus said, "No man hath seen God at any time" (John 11, and '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape" (John 537). Yet, multitudes of people saw and heard Jesus speaking and preaching to the masses. So, if nobody has seen God, yet people have seen Jesus, then Jesus can't be God.
God is the most high, and He doesn't have a god; but Jesus did have a god. He said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" (John 2017). Jesus is also recorded in the Biblical Gospels as having said, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 2746) So, if God has no god, and Jesus has a god, then Jesus can't be God.
God is all-powerful, almighty; but Jesus is not all-powerful. He said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 519), as well as, "I can of mine own self do nothing as I hear I judge and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" (John 530). So, if God is all-powerful, and Jesus is not all-powerful, then Jesus can't be God.
God is all-knowing, but Jesus is not all-knowing. Jesus said regarding the day of judgement, "...Of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 1332; Matt. 2436) So, if God is all-knowing, and Jesus is not all-knowing, then Jesus can't be God.
This is not even including text where Jesus admitted not to be God. He even said to a Samaritan woman, "You worship that which you do not know; we worship that which we know, for salvation is from the Jews" (John 422). As you should know, God is not a Jew... ) The Jewish law forbade any kind of idol worship and any words or actions that implied God being in contained in a physical form, especially as a man. They explicitly condemned anyone who claimed the divinity of any man. So, if salvation is from the Jews (as in their teachings), then it is idolatrous to consider a man to be God...
Even other Christian groups object to the concept of Jesus being God, based on the Bible. And even though I disagree with their ideology of Jesus' divinity, they make some pretty good arguments based on the Bible.
http//www.carm.org/doctrine/obj_Jesus_sin.htmPeace,
Ahmad
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The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the One True GOD, a TRUE UNITY.
Stop trying to lead people astray with your lies!
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You are correct - 3 people cannot be one person but "3 persons" can be in one GOD. Persons may not be the best word for GOD is spirit! I like the term manifestation. You are using finite terms to define an infinite being. The Trinity is a complex unity that Muslims may not be able to understand.
I think it is ok if you cannot understand the One True GOD the way Christians do. We both believe that GOD is one!! Jehovah Witness can't believe that Jesus is a manifestation of GOD's Holy WORD either.
Matthew 28
17And when they saw him, they worshipped him but some doubted.18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
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Peace Pvb,
Matthew 28
17And when they saw him, they worshipped him but some doubted.18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Who gave Jesus this power?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace to all,
again PVB, do you see how ridiculous this sounds, open your eyes and heart, you say that the trinity is a complex unity that for some reason we muslims cant understand,, but you think nothing of the distict possibility that we are right, that there is only ONE GOd, not a complex trinity, jesus was a muslim, all prophets were muslims, they all believed in, worshipped, obeyed, and delivered the same message of the one GOD. Quit confusing yourself with a bunch of hypothetical abstractions and conjecture. Christianity has become nothing more than a complex set of interlocking dogmas and concepts all founded on a bit of truth, and then weaved into web of confusion and contradictions that must always be explained away as "just have faith". I even once asked my priest some of these questions and he couldnt answer, he said its all a "great mystery that God doesnt want us to understand yet" Why dont you read the entire original Mathew, jesus said he is only given authority "on earth as in heaven" while he is here, he also says until his end of days on earth, not the end of time, and think about these things,, when they saw that jesus came out of the tomb after 4 days why did he wear a disguise, and when the disciples heard rumors they all didnt believe he came back from the supposed dead, so when a few of them saw him in person , it says they worshipped his feet, not worshipped him as God, so if i saw my friend come out of a grave i put him in 4 days ago i would probably fall down and hug his feet too, doesnt make him God though. And why is it that Jesus immediaely asked them to prepare food for him after being gone for 4 days, i thought he already had the LAST SUPPER we all celebrate, so when you all say jesus only appeared from the grave in spirit form then why is he still so hungry, i would be hungry too if I just pulled a fast one on the authorities by making them think I died, hid away and escaped for 4 days, wore a disguise so they couldnt find me, then when I find my disciples say, "dude, cook me up something, I havent eaten in 4 dAYS" Read and think rationally over these things and quit infusing them with this majic power and leap of faith that is required in order for it to make sense to you, the truth is very simple and it is hiding right in plain site, in front of your eyes sister.
PeaceKurt
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Maybe this will help
The sun gives off light and heat. Where does the power for the light come from? For the heat?
The light and the heat all come from the one source - THE SUN. So, even by your own implication, Jesus and the Holy Spirit had to get their power from one source, and that source is the ONLY TRUE GOD.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Pvb,
This is unreasonable. THREE PEOPLE can't be ONE PERSON. That doesn't make any sense at all... If Jesus makes up one-third of the one true god, then why did he pray to "the Father"? This would've been unnecessary, since he would've been actually praying to himself. He also encouraged his followers to pray to this same "Father"; why didn't he instruct them to pray to the son and the holy spirit, if they are also part of God's entity? Let's also examine the concept of the Trinity, which is not mentioned at all in Jesus' words...
Nobody is greater than God. Yet, Jesus said there is one greater than him. "My father is greater than I..." (John 142 If nobody is greater than God, yet the Father is greater than Jesus, then Jesus can't be God.
Jesus said, "No man hath seen God at any time" (John 11, and '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape" (John 537). Yet, multitudes of people saw and heard Jesus speaking and preaching to the masses. So, if nobody has seen God, yet people have seen Jesus, then Jesus can't be God.
God is the most high, and He doesn't have a god; but Jesus did have a god. He said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" (John 2017). Jesus is also recorded in the Biblical Gospels as having said, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 2746) So, if God has no god, and Jesus has a god, then Jesus can't be God.
God is all-powerful, almighty; but Jesus is not all-powerful. He said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 519), as well as, "I can of mine own self do nothing as I hear I judge and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" (John 530). So, if God is all-powerful, and Jesus is not all-powerful, then Jesus can't be God.
God is all-knowing, but Jesus is not all-knowing. Jesus said regarding the day of judgement, "...Of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 1332; Matt. 2436) So, if God is all-knowing, and Jesus is not all-knowing, then Jesus can't be God.
This is not even including text where Jesus admitted not to be God. He even said to a Samaritan woman, "You worship that which you do not know; we worship that which we know, for salvation is from the Jews" (John 422). As you should know, God is not a Jew... ) The Jewish law forbade any kind of idol worship and any words or actions that implied God being in contained in a physical form, especially as a man. They explicitly condemned anyone who claimed the divinity of any man. So, if salvation is from the Jews (as in their teachings), then it is idolatrous to consider a man to be God...
Even other Christian groups object to the concept of Jesus being God, based on the Bible. And even though I disagree with their ideology of Jesus' divinity, they make some pretty good arguments based on the Bible.
http//www.carm.org/doctrine/obj_Jesus_sin.htmPeace,
Ahmad
Peace All
Wonderful post Ahmad, very interesting and helpful...
AND I WONDER...
Why PVB is not commenting on any of these and bring new fallacy on the table like source of heat and light...
So, I guess the debate will go on with more questions after question... I hope am wrong...
PVB, please comment on the post Ahmad made which I quote above...
Thank you.
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LOL!! Wayfinder I do spend some time away from the computer!! LOL!
Ahmad you did not finish verses, theme
John 1
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
John 5
19Jesus gave them this answer "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
...
46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"John 4
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."
You missed a most important message whether you believe that Jesus is GOD or not!!!!!! "for salvation is from the Jews"- means that the salvation for all of man comes from the Jews and that is Jesus
Jesus is all man and GOD, but GOD is not all Jesus . Human form is limiting. Messiah has a much different meaning in the Bible then what Muslims have been told.
If you really want to know the truth of what is in the Gospel you must study, read it and take it all together instead of cherry picking. As a child reading the Gospel I did not understand. Each reading has brought about a deeper meaning.
It is possible that people can't understand unless they are filled with the Holy Spirit
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Well, I'm gonna cry. & & & & &
After reading this last post, I'm definitely going to cry.
'( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '( '(I actually used the right smilies this time though.