The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands
-
Peace,Dayaan...and welcome to the forum..
According to my translations of the Qur'an "Bagha'a" means concubinage (non-lawful marriage) or whoredom (forced sex for money/favors) and the girl/woman referred to is the property of another as a slave not a daughter. The immediately preceding statement of 2433 has been omitted from the prior post and refers to slaves directly.
It has not been omitted..I think there`s difference between "servants" and "ma malakt aymanukum"..
I think believers-I hope to be one of them-have one of other social responsibilities towards "servants",that is to help marrying them,just like our responsibility towards "widows""" to help them getting married.
Besides,God states not to them-servants-a share of money,he says "If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable."(2432)
Besides,no body owns slaves any more,and servants choose to work in houses,they do not need a written deed of freedom to get out,do they?
While "ma malakat aymanukum" or "whom you rightfully possess" do have share of money,and that would mean that we are guardians to them and financially responsible to them and not "possessing"them..
I think the Quran is making a literal distinction between "servants","war captures" and "those whom your right hand "possess"",I think "right hand" refers to an oath of some sort made towards these people,hence,I prefer the term"those who are committed to you by oath"..That`s my own understanding at this moment..and I hope we enlighten each other with our different views..
Peace, -
peace be upon you,
is it true that only men may work, and earn a salary?
-
No it is not true. The Quran seems to imply that a woman can earn money just as a man can. However, it is preferable for the man to do this with the main goal being supporting his wife and his family. Of course because they are married it must be based on an agreement between them. If the woman is not married she is free to work as she pleases according to her needs and her situation.
Godbless,
Anwar -
No it is not true. The Quran seems to imply that a woman can earn money just as a man can. However, it is preferable for the man to do this with the main goal being supporting his wife and his family. Of course because they are married it must be based on an agreement between them. If the woman is not married she is free to work as she pleases according to her needs and her situation.
Godbless,
Anwaroh, thnx for the response bro ;D
-
Peace All
I have not read the entire thread, so someone may have already brought this up, but I'll post this in case nobody else has.
Why do people assume the words "rijalu" & "nisaa" in 434 refers to husbands & wives. The words, if I am not mistaken mean men & women respectively. Furthermore if this verse had to do with a one on one relationship such as husband & wife, I don't think the plural would have been used.
It seems to me that it would make more sense to view this verse in the sense of the community at large.
My arabic knowledge is very limited & I would appreciate any input from those on the forum who have a better command of the language.
Imraan
-
"and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down"
Does the community at large sleep together?
This is a rather narrow view of the wording. Is it not possible that it could mean something else?
I am not saying that it definitely does mean something else, but is there really no possibility.
The interpretations I have seen thus far on this forum as well as elsewhere are far too discriminatory towards women. Therefore I feel we should be open to another interpretation as this discrimination is not Quranic in my opinion.
Imraan
-
Salaam to all and specially to Mr. Layth
I am not complaining to any one it is Just to put my grevience on the record and make the record straight.
So, I was banned from the forum once again as at various times am banned from Sunni Christian and Shia forums, Ahmedi's and Atheists forums being an exceptions. The ban took place on 16th of January 2009 after my following commentsRajah
Ignorance is tolerable but arrogance is not, you are an ignorant arrogant, dangerous for your husband and family, I am sure my sixth sense tells me if you were married you are divorced now and if you are not married yet may Allah help you!
but as usual before my ban I had some hard talk with one of the Moderators "Samia", the last time I got banned was after a conversation with "savage-carrot" a Moderator too and by chance both happen to be women.
Before I explain what I meant in my paragraph above, let me quote what Farida to whom the above paragraph was addressed wrote
Farida
Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok
May Allah help you to increase your knowledge for your own benefit.The words i colored Red are extremly insulting and degrading if one understands Urdu and English. But astonishingly none of the Moderators found these words insulting, and Farida kept on posting after the Ban was enforced on Me.
Sikander may be a Urdu speaker got the insult and advised Ms. Farida
farida,
This was very arrogant and rude, Not expected of you
Secondly her aide and friend Elke also admitted that this was rude and show of arrogance, however she said it in taunting way (taunt towards all the men)
Elke
Yes farida, only men are allowed to be arrogant and rude !
Surprisingly none of the moderators noticed this. Well I am not bothered with this at all.
Instead I see that some real Intellectual minds post on this forum like "Arnold Yasin", "Edip Yuksel", though I strongly disagree with this person "Ayman" but he is genius, and some thoughts of Layth himself, and few others they are the only reasons to be here.I have some suggestions Mr. Layth
- The Moderator should be a person who is not short tempered.
- Moderator should act as a Moderator.
- Moderator should not so frequently indulge in the debates. I rarely see Nadeem, Nabi, or Tay posting, even if they, it is precise, others should follow this. May be they use some other Nicks.
- Before you Ban some one give him a chance to explain, that is Islamic and democratic, autocratic type of behavior will just harm the site.
Now please read my quoted paragraph once again and judge weather it was a retaliation or an offence.
Thanks.
-
My remark was taunting only to arrogant and rude man, especially those with no sense of humor.
also, may i make another suggestion
- no woman moderator please
a question though does farida speak urdu ?
signed
faridas 'aide'(may be i should be insulted too ? confused
-
peace Raj-ah, all,
The words i colored Red are extremly insulting and degrading
Interestingly for a comment you found "extremely insulting and degrading" you never reported it to moderators.
As an aside, no moderator has the power to ban anyone by themselves unless it is a blatant forum rules breach. Thus, the vast majority of decisions are done by group/vote.
Bottom line keep it constructive, not destructive.
-
Ra-jah,
I am not complaining to any one it is Just to put my grevience on the record and make the record straight.
This is contradictory as one can see after reading your post. You obviously are complaining. Send these types of letters to Layth himself directly, the mods or the people with who you have grievances instead of raising these issues on a public thread. Not only is this OT but it is also a breach of Rule 1. Anything else posted in response to this now will be either deleted, moved to the trash and/or disciplinary action taken.
So, I was banned from the forum once again as at various times am banned from Sunni Christian and Shia forums, Ahmedi's and Atheists forums being an exceptions.
So? Is that supposed to prove something? Someone just posted comments merely generalising about women on a game forum and they were banned let alone anything even resembling the insulting comments posted about another poster here.
The words i colored Red are extremly insulting and degrading if one understands Urdu and English. But astonishingly none of the Moderators found these words insulting, and Farida kept on posting after the Ban was enforced on Me.
Read the Forum Rules if you are unclear and posting assumptions what the mods found or not. And while you're at it, also take a look at your own history and how the process spans from a step 1 to 2 and so on.
Sikander may be a Urdu speaker got the insult and advised Ms. Farida
Surprisingly, he isn't the only Urdu speaker on the forum, so it is just one person's opinion...needless to say the complaints about your insult (which you refuse to admit is one, or even apologise for as if it's a paltry little off hand remark about the weather as factual as you like) were far more and apparently not just from women.
Secondly her aide and friend Elke also admitted that this was rude and show of arrogance, however she said it in taunting way (taunt towards all the men)
And somehow this justifies your insults and makes it all okay...a poster you think was taunting you (a man as you seem to insist)? It doesn't make it okay and a lot is taken into consideration before banning someone, inclusive of the weight of the insults and the past history.
Surprisingly none of the moderators noticed this. Well I am not bothered with this at all.
And somehow surprisingly you are mysteriously privy to the mods discussions. Interesting, can you also make predictions with your second sight? Wait...this is deja-vu since I've mentioned second sight before and that was when I was responding to...gasp you...weird but true. And no, you are bothered, thus this anguished post.
Instead I see that some real Intellectual minds post on this forum like "Arnold Yasin", "Edip Yuksel", though I strongly disagree with this person "Ayman" but he is genius, and some thoughts of Layth himself, and few others they are the only reasons to be here.
Chance is a fickle mistress. Somehow all these intellectual minds are men! (no reason, I just thought I'd link it with the "chance" occurence of you being banned whenever you talked to a "woman" and assumed it "must be" because of the biological differences rather than anything else) Maybe you should just soak up the wisdom that permeates these boards then coming from the men, and just talk to those you assume are men and thus this way it will be safe, an all men's club with cigars and intellect and stuff. May I suggest a signature? "I stop only for men"...it might be misconstrued but hey, you shouldn't mind...you've been misconstruing plenty of stuff here with a liberal sprinkling of insults towards myself and others but if you ever get called on it...it's just because we're women and men would understand or towards myself it's because I'm a woman and autocratic and arrogant and god knows what else. So I too, would like this to be a record (minus the complaints and the whines though who thinks anyone ever keeps to that eh?). I must admit though, it feels good to throw a pity party (you should only invite men though).
- The Moderator should be a person who is not short tempered.
I too have suggestions Layth. The posters should not be men. Only women should join our forum and if they are men, they must know their place and act appropriately.
- Moderator should act as a Moderator.
The posters should act like women even if they are men. No wait, they should just act in the way I like them too, meaning like I think women should act.
- Moderator should not so frequently indulge in the debates. I rarely see Nadeem, Nabi, or Tay posting, even if they, it is precise, others should follow this. May be they use some other Nicks.
Women may sometimes use male nicks just for variety even if it's a breach of the rules, since I will only whine if the rules affect me otherwise I don't mind encouraging people to break the rules. I will also only list a couple of women who I know haven't been active in eons and ignore the others who I think are men and have had arguments and grievances with.
- Before you Ban some one give him a chance to explain, that is Islamic and democratic, autocratic type of behavior will just harm the site.
Before any women are banned, we must let them explain that they are not men...however this can just be assumed to be a front and insincere because seriously, how can we ever know unless we check? But what about the words? Yes, words can be subjective and if I say you are a danger to all women, ignorant and arrogant and my second sight tells me if you were married you are now divorced (because no woman would ever want to stay married to you) and if you are not (my second sight failed me here but no matter) God help you (as no woman would even spit in your general direction)...it's not an insult and can be explained away. This type of behaviour will truly harm the site. I agree.
The topic is locked. If you wish to discuss this post or the others which are OT to the thread, PM the mods or email Layth. If you wish to discuss the actual topic, start a new thread dealing with it.
