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  4. Even the christians can see the lies!!!!!!

Even the christians can see the lies!!!!!!

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  • E Offline
    E Offline
    esimsek100
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    http//debate.org.uk/topics/history/uncomfrt.htm

    B2i. Qibla
    Qibla was canonized (finalized) in the Qur'an in 624 towards Mecca (S.2144, 149-150) Yet, Mosques uncovered between 650-705 do not have Qiblas facing Mecca.

    Wasit in Iraq. Qibla points North instead of s.w.
    Baladhuri stated that the Qibla in the first Kufan mosque (Iraq) faced West.
    Fustat in Egypt. The Qibla points North-East towards Jerusalem instead of s.e.
    Jacob of Odessa (Christian bishop) in 705 said Egyptian Muslims (Haggarenes) prayed towards Jerusalem, like Christians.
    (Cook) Earliest evidence for direction of prayer (thus their sanctuary) points much further north than Mecca. In fact no mosques have been found from this period which face towards Mecca. Some Jordanian mosques also face north, while there are certain North African mosques (from much later) which face south.
    "They didn't know the direction." Yet these were desert traders, caravaneers!
    What is happening here? Why are the prayers not towards Mecca?

    Possible reasons

    There was still a good relationship with Jews, so no need to change the Qibla
    Mecca was not yet well-known.

    B2iii Mecca
    Was not yet significant at that time

    Muslims say "Mecca is the centre of Islam, and the center of history"

    "The first sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah, a blessed place, a guidance for the peoples" (S.396)
    Adam placed the black stone in the original Ka'bah there.
    Abraham and Ishmael rebuilt the Ka'bah there.
    Thus this is the 1st and most important city in the world!

    Muslims say "Mecca was the center of the trading routes."

    Yet, Mecca was not on the trading route. It's in a valley, no water, not like Taif, 100 miles away (cheaper to ship 1,250 miles than go by camel 50 miles).
    Yet, except for a city called "Makoraba" by geographer Ptolomy= 2nd century, no mention of Mecca, or Ka'bah in any document, until late 7th century (Cook-74). Why?
    So, what is going on here? If Mecca was not the center of the Muslim world, then what was? The answer is simple. It seems that Jerusalem and not Mecca was the center and sanctuary of the Haggarenes, or Maghrebites upto 700 A.D. Take for instance another fact

    B2vii Prayer
    Umar II (717-720), the pious caliph, didn't know about details of the prayer.
    Qur'an in Suras 11114; 1778-79; 20130; 3017-18 speaks only of 3 prayers. Where do we get 5 prayers? From the Hadith, compiled 200-250 years later (Zoroastrians).

    Archaeology shows us that much of what the Qur'an maintains does not coincide with the data which we posess

    1.The Qibla was not fixed until the next century
    2.the Jews still retained a relationship with the Arabs until at least 640
    3.Mecca was unknown until the end of the 7th century
    4.the earliest Qur'anic writings do not coincide with the Qur'an which we 5.have today
    6.the number of prayers as well as the Hajj was not formalized until after 717
    7.Muhammad was not known as a prophet, nor was the word "Muslim" used until the end of the 7th century.

    These are what archaeology and external sources say!

    Of course I don't agree with all of it, but how blind "muslims" are.

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