What is happening in the Moslem world, is it a God?s Test or Curse?

belH

I was listening to one of the suni Imam talking about the moslem world situations; the Imam said that what is happening is a God?s Test as were prophet Mohamed, Joseph and all the others were tested before us.
Hum?I asked some of my friends (whom are sunis) a Question, who is stronger in faith, the Prophets or us? The answer was surely the Prophets. Then I said, but why the Prophets were tested for about 10 years at most and the Moslem world has been for more than 1000 year? And I continued by saying the next verse

2214 Or did you expect that you would enter Paradise, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said ?When is God?s victory?? Yes indeed, God?s victory is near.ArabicOriginal Text2214

Therefore, the prophet was stricken after few years until God gave him victory.
My friends looked at me and said what do you mean? I smiled and said What is happening for the past 1000 years is not a Test but a curse?after all, our faith are not stronger than prophets. It is the curse that God promises in his Quran to punish with those who associate lies to God?s religion and use it to judge between their societies.

And their reaction was are you back again talking bad about Prophet Suna? confused

End of my story.
Now to you...is it a God's Curse or Test ?

Peace

Bigmo

What is happening in the Moslem world, is it a God?s Test or Curse?

I was listening to one of the suni Imam talking about the moslem world situations; the Imam said that what is happening is a God?s Test as were prophet Mohamed, Joseph and all the others were tested before us.
Hum?I asked some of my friends (whom are sunis) a Question, who is stronger in faith, the Prophets or us? The answer was surely the Prophets. Then I said, but why the Prophets were tested for about 10 years at most and the Moslem world has been for more than 1000 year? And I continued by saying the next verse

2214 Or did you expect that you would enter Paradise, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said ?When is God?s victory?? Yes indeed, God?s victory is near.ArabicOriginal Text2214

Therefore, the prophet was stricken after few years until God gave him victory.
My friends looked at me and said what do you mean? I smiled and said What is happening for the past 1000 years is not a Test but a curse?after our faith are not stronger than prophets. It is the curse that God promises in his Quran to punish with those who associate lies to God?s religion and use it to judge between their societies.

And their reaction was are you back again talking bad about Prophet Suna? confused

End of my story.
Now to you...is it a God's Curse or Test ?

Peace

2.153. O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah. "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,
Who say, when afflicted with calamity "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return"-

belH

2.153. O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah. "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,
Who say, when afflicted with calamity "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return"-

Thank you; now...do you think that what is happening for the past 1000 years to moslem world a test or curse?

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace,

The Quran speaks specifically about them

Those are the ones who God has cursed, so He made them deaf and blinded their sight (understanding). Do they not consider the reading, or are there locks on their minds? (4723, 24)

The Sunnis are confused regarding the reading, and that's why they rely on the hadith and sunna. This applies to others as well, but, in my view, Sunnis definately fit into this catagory.

Peace,

Ahmad

belH

Peace,

The Quran speaks specifically about them

Those are the ones who God has cursed, so He made them deaf and blinded their sight (understanding). Do they not consider the reading, or are there locks on their minds? (4723, 24)

The Sunnis are confused regarding the reading, and that's why they rely on the hadith and sunna. This applies to others as well, but, in my view, Sunnis definately fit into this catagory.

Peace,

Ahmad

Peace
Maybe I was not clear in my first post, what I meant with "what is happening with moslem world" is "the bombing and killing of moslems for the past 1000 years by Mongolian, Crusaders, Israelis, ,England, French, and finally the US.
Is this a curse or a Test?

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Belal,

Maybe I was not clear in my first post, what I meant with "what is happening with moslem world" is "the bombing and killing of moslems for the past 1000 years by Mongolian, Crusaders, Israelis, ,England, French, and finally the US.
Is this a curse or a Test?

Yes, I understood what you were saying... Because of their misguidance, they have been "cursed" in all their endeavors. That's why "Muslims" throughout the world are suffering. God promises to His worshippers happiness in THIS LIFE and the hereafter. The Islamic world is in turmoil, and this is all part of God's curse upon them.

Peace,

Ahmad

unknownuser

Peace
Maybe I was not clear in my first post, what I meant with "what is happening with moslem world" is "the bombing and killing of moslems for the past 1000 years by Mongolian, Crusaders, Israelis, ,England, French, and finally the US.
Is this a curse or a Test?

Salaams All,

2251
By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not Allah CHECK ONE SET OF PEOPLE BY MEANS OF ANOTHER, the earth would indeed be full of mischief But Allah is full of bounty to all the worlds.

2238
Verily Allah will defend (from ill) those who believe verily, Allah loveth not any that is a traitor to faith, or show ingratitude

7028
For their Lord's displeasure is the opposite of Peace and Tranquillity;-

It is permitted for those who have been persecuted to fight. And God is able to give them victory.
The ones who were driven out of their homes without justice, except that they said Our Lord is God! (Whose conduct is Godly?) And if it were not for PEOPLE STANDING against one another, then The giving up of evil conduct, Trading, Counseling, Having conduct in accordance with God, Where Gods Attributes are frequently mentioned would have CEASED. God will give victory to those who support Him. God is Powerful, Noble.
Those whom if We allow them authority in the land, they hold to counsel, and they contribute towards betterment, and deter from evil. And to God is the conclusion of all matters.

peace

mmkhan

Salaaman brother Bigmo,

2.153. O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah. "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,
Who say, when afflicted with calamity "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return"-

I am sorry to say that I don't understand what you wrote. I mean, I did not find any relation of the aayaats you quoted to the question asked.

And also brother, I want you to make sure about the translation of 2155 ... I is not Goods OR lives OR the fruits, but it is Goods AND lives AND the fruits.

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. pr

Khan

Wakas

...surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition...

The classic mistake Traditional Muslims and others make (myself included) is that they think God works FOR them, when in fact, God works THROUGH them.

It seems to me that generally, those who are closer to being "Quranic" are the ones flourishing around the world, and the ones furthest away are the ones suffering.

belH

Peace all
Think you for your feed back; for the ones who will vote or voted others or Test, can you share with us your understanding.
Peace

Alen

Peace,
Respectfully.

I would say it is a test but that's because they have abandoned The Quran and started following other books and took thema s holy ones and took their imams as leaders.
It is also a punishment as well because they won't use their brians and few days ago i was having a conversation with couple of sunnis who told me not to think and not to use my own head but rather ask the sheikh for the advice on Islam and The Quran.

Peace

xthug

Peace all
Think you for your feed back; for the ones who will vote or voted others or Test, can you share with us your understanding.
Peace

And hold firmly to the rope of God, all of you, and do not be separated. And remember God?s blessing upon you when you were enemies and He united your hearts. Then you became, with His blessing, as brothers; and you were on the edge of a pit of fire and He saved you from it; it is thus that God clarifies for you His signs that you may be guided.
3104 ) And let there be a nation from amongst you which calls towards goodness, and orders kindness, and deters from evil. And these are the successful ones.
3105 ) And do not be like those who separated and differed after the clarity had come to them. And for them is a painful retribution.

we must be united, we must strive together for common goals, and we must support and help each other to defend evil. we are advised to hold on to the "Rope of God" all of us and with a firm grip, we must not slip brothers and sisters because it weakens our foundation as a whole nation.

3110 You were the best nation that emerged for the people, you ordered towards kindness and deterred from evil, and believed in God.

This "nation" is extremely important and must persevere, in order for it to do so it must not brake apart, sect or divide.

4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus ?You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it.? Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.

here we have a system that has not changed it is universal in presence and time. the system cannot have division or sects.

4214 And they only divided after the knowledge had come to them, due to resentment among themselves. And had it not been for a predetermined decision from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, those who inherited the Scripture after them are full of doubts.

these "doubts" on the Scripture will come from division or sects..

4215 For that, you shall preach and be upright, as you have been commanded, and do not follow their wishes. And say ?I believe in all that God has sent down from Scripture, and I was commanded to be with justice between you. God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds and you have your deeds. There is no argument between us and you. God will gather us all together, and to Him is the ultimate destiny.?

a statement to all muslims of all sects applicable at all time from our prophet. Muhammed pbuh is commended to state first and foremost he fully believes in the Scripture.
i believe the part where Muhammed pbuh says "there is no argument between us and you" shows he is speaking to sects, in this sentence i believe "us" is those who believe in Gods universal never changing System, where as "you" is all divisions with in islam.

4216 And those who debate about God, after they had been answered, their argument is nullified at their Lord. They have incurred a wrath, and will have a severe retribution.

there answer was in the scripture, maybe they just never took notice, or they perhaps looked else where ?

4217 God is the One who sent down the Scripture with truth, and the balance. And for all that you know, the Hour may be very near.

we are divided.. the curse that you speak of is nothing more then the by product of a non unified nation. we brake our divisions/sects in faith first then you'll see all of us holding on to the "rope of God" a lot more firmly.

God knows best, all praise be to God alone.

peace be with all of you.

mmkhan

Salaaman xthug and all,

I agree with you brother on all of your points. Alhamdulillah.

But in regards to the question raised by brother BelH, I think, we will not really lose while a test from Allah. I mean, when Allah tests us, we will not be in lose of anything in real.

Like if you look at 2155 Allah will test us with few things that is mentioned.

Fear

We are NOT losing anything physically.

Hunger

We are NOT going to die with hunger during test.

Reduction in money

We are NOT going to lose all of our wealth, but our earning may reduce, that will be enough only to survive. Unfortunately, all most all the translator translated the word "NaQtsinn" as "Lose".

Lives

As we all know, no body is will die until and except for the person whose time has come. So, again, we are NOT losing during test.

Fruits

When fruits are needed, we may not find them, but does it mean that their is no alternative for that? I think again we are NOT losing anything physically.

This is how I understand 2155, May Allah increase my knowledge of Truth.

Because Allah said

4147 What concern hath Allah for your punishment if ye are thankful and believe? Allah was ever Responsive, Aware.

And in both the aayaats 2155 and 4147 no body perticularly has been addressed, like "Ya ayyuhal lazeena aamanu" or "Ya ayyuhan naas", etc. But both of the aayaats are in general but with "KUM" as "NabluwannaKUM" in 2155 and "BiAzdhaabiKUM" in 4147.

May Allah guide us all towards the path that He has chosen for us pr

Take care..

mmKhan

Diem

...surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition...

The classic mistake Traditional Muslims and others make (myself included) is that they think God works FOR them, when in fact, God works THROUGH them.

It seems to me that generally, those who are closer to being "Quranic" are the ones flourishing around the world, and the ones furthest away are the ones suffering.

Wakas,
that is a great point to make, I hope that alot of people will read this verse and understand what God is trying to say.

On a seperate note, can you list some examples of "Quranic" nations?

Wakas

On a seperate note, can you list some examples of "Quranic" nations?

I cant think of any "Quranic" nations, in the sense that they are totally "Quranic". However many nations embody some Quranic principles. I am of the opinion, there are some things in The Quran that are very important, other things less important. For example, freedom of belief is core, so any country infringing upon this is unlikely to prosper. Same with justice, oppression of women etc. I recommend reading the book "The Natural Republic" as a decent starting point, or download it http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf

I think it would be very easy to turn round the so-called Muslim countries in the world, if their leaders were sincere. Two things 1) unshackle and thus release 50% of your potential, i.e. restore women's rights and empower them 2) prioritise education and significantly increase funding into this system.

As I said, religionists generally make the mistake of thinking God works FOR them and not THROUGH them, thus become idle/stagnant.

smmirza

This is something I have thought about a lot of times. If we are following God's religion then why are we oppressed/hated. We should be respected and be in power. Now I realize why that is so. We have let the ulema, imaams and clerics corrupt Islam and blindly follow their teachings. Just today, my mom was telling me she saw an imaam on TV who apparently was talking about people who try to understand the Quran and do not have any religious training. He said that such people have deviated from the right path. I asked my mom who gave him the authority to make such statements and she just said he was a learned man. Unfortunately, that is the attitude of all the Muslims I have met in my life. They do not question the guy with the beard and turban as if he is infallible. God give me enough strength and courage that I am able to stand up in the middle of the Friday sermon and ask some hard questions from these paid ulema as to how they feel about deviating men from the path of God? Now I am all angry. brickwall

Putaradivi

Just a quick comment.

You have me thinking about tests now, and I thought of something I've never really given much thought to. Perhaps, if it is a test, it is not so much a test for you as it is for those you are so angry with.

Maybe our part, when comes to those we believe are giving false statements as facts, is to simply let them say what they will... and remember that in the end we will not have to answer for what others say and do, only what we say and do.

I do not know your situation. Yet I sincerely hope you look at things in a different way. To be hated is not the worst thing. What is worse is doing what you know is wrong in order to avoid it. To be in power is not the greatest thing. What comes after this life is far more important.

You get angry, I sometimes cry. The state of the world is a mess however you look at it.

But we believe in God. We have God to turn to. I honestly believe this is all we need.

I hope you feel better about things soon.
Peace and God bless.

Samia

Now to you...is it a God's Curse or Test ?

Neither nor in my opinion. It's simply in this verse

O you who believe! If you help in the cause of God He will help you and make your foothold firm (477).

I believe the opposite is also correct.

and this always comes to my mind when I think of this verse and see it unfolding

... many nations embody some Quranic principles. I am of the opinion, there are some things in The Quran that are very important, other things less important. For example, freedom of belief is core, so any country infringing upon this is unlikely to prosper. Same with justice, oppression of women etc.

drfazl

This is something I have thought about a lot of times. If we are following God's religion then why are we oppressed/hated. We should be respected and be in power. Now I realize why that is so. We have let the ulema, imaams and clerics corrupt Islam and blindly follow their teachings. Just today, my mom was telling me she saw an imaam on TV who apparently was talking about people who try to understand the Quran and do not have any religious training. He said that such people have deviated from the right path. I asked my mom who gave him the authority to make such statements and she just said he was a learned man. Unfortunately, that is the attitude of all the Muslims I have met in my life. They do not question the guy with the beard and turban as if he is infallible. God give me enough strength and courage that I am able to stand up in the middle of the Friday sermon and ask some hard questions from these paid ulema as to how they feel about deviating men from the path of God? Now I am all angry. brickwall

I Pray Allah will help you in this, coming Friday! Let it be a crusade!

.

drfazl

My dear companions awaiting JD,

Those who judge themselves as mumins and muslims and the people of other communities as kafirs and thus the people of fire are the 'mentors' of the 'mentals.' These are the despised; for them is a painful chastisement, starting from this life itself. The cursed people!

3862 And they say What happened to us that we see not men whom we believed to count among the most wicked? Were we mocking at them? Or have our eyes missed them? That is just and fair - the angry exchanging of the inmates of the fire!

The so called muslims and mumins must stop judging them to be the heavenites whilst at the same time they stop forthwith judging the people of other so called religionists such as jews, christians, hindus etc., to be the dwellers of hell. Who are these to sit on the throne of Allah and judge? This is a grave sin to even have such fatwas in one's heart; and this is the mental state of the terrorists who are on the run! Allah does not love such aggressors and He shall punish them with a torment severe. It is curse! a curse!!

.