Doesn't 361 solve the 9:128-129 and Hafs and Warsh issues?

[6619]

This is from http//www.submission.org/quran/app32.html

Your first reaction to this piece of information is objection "What if the person was really bad, evil, and an atheist, will he go to Heaven if he died before the age of 40?" This is because you are mean, while God is the Most Merciful. Our tendency is to "put them all in Hell." People who objected strongly to this Divine mercy cannot come up with a cut-off age of responsibility. They ask questions like, "What if the person was really wicked?" The answer is, "Does God know that this person was wicked?" "Yes."
"Does God know that this person does not deserve to go to Heaven?" "Yes."
"Therefore, this person will not die before the age of 40." As simple as that. God is the only one who terminates our lives on this earth. He knows exactly who deserves to go Heaven and who deserves to go to Hell.

Besides, did you read this?

Early in 1989 a man by the name of Theodore Robert Bundy was executed for killing a number of women. The whole nation agreed that he was one of the most vicious criminals in history. So much so that his execution was one of the rare occasions where the opponents of capital punishment did not protest. On the contrary, many people actually celebrated his execution. Numerous journalists, editorials, and politicians lamented the fact that justice took eleven years to execute Ted Bundy. They stated that Bundy should have been executed within a maximum of six years after his conviction.
According to the Quran, this would have been the greatest favor anyone could have done to Bundy. He was 42 years old when executed. Had he been executed five years earlier, at the age of 37, he would have gone straight to Heaven, and he did not deserve that.

As it turns out, Bundy was one of the signs God has given us to confirm that anyone who dies before 40 goes to Heaven. Bundy's name, Theodore Robert Bundy, consists of 19 letters, and he confessed to killing 19 women just one day before his execution.
There were many other signs from God.

You do not get it
I do not follow Rashad Khalifa, an imperfect man, I follow Quran alone.
Whether one believes in going to heaven if he/she dies before 40, what is it going to change since God alone controls our life and death?
This is a sterile debate, I have personnally no opinion on the age of 40 issue, since it does not change anything in our fates. I see the age of 40 as a landmark in a human being's life where your responsability is increased. That's all.

It is striking how people assume that because you believe in the miracle of 19, you should necessary believe everything that Rashad said. Sorry but it does not apply to me.

Peace.

[Ex-"Quranist"]

You do not get it
I do not follow Rashad Khalifa, an imperfect man, I follow Quran alone.
Whether one believes in going to heaven if he/she dies before 40, what is it going to change since God alone controls our life and death?
This is a sterile debate, I have personnally no opinion on the age of 40 issue, since it does not change anything in our fates. I see the age of 40 as a landmark in a human being's life where your responsability is increased. That's all.

It is striking how people assume that because you believe in the miracle of 19, you should necessary believe everything that Rashad said. Sorry but it does not apply to me.

Peace.

Peace,

although this was not quite directed towards you, I respect your opinion. And I agree with you, Rashad Khalifa was not perfect, although the whole 40 thing seems quite valid, and it was supported by the bible. But OK, i understand your point

[Rami]

Peace,

although this was not quite directed towards you, I respect your opinion. And I agree with you, Rashad Khalifa was not perfect, although the whole 40 thing seems quite valid, and it was supported by the bible. But OK, i understand your point

You mean the age of 40? There is no afterlife in the Bible. Sheol is the end of all mankind. All rewards and punishments are in this world. That what the Torah teaches.

Peace.

[Ex-"Quranist"]

You mean the age of 40? There is no afterlife in the Bible. Sheol is the end of all mankind. All rewards and punishments are in this world. That what the Torah teaches.

Peace.

Moses, at the age of 40, has it in his heart to visit his people, the
Hebrews. When he saw an Egyptian beating one of his brethren, he
avenged him by killing the Egyptian and buried his body in the sand.
Moses then fled from the presence of Pharaoh into the desert of Midian
because Pharaoh sought to kill him.The Bible also says that Moses
was grown up during this occurrence.

One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people
and looked on their burdens; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew,
one of his people.

Acts 723] "When he was forty years old, it came into his heart to
visit his brethren, the sons of Israel.

And seeing one of them being wronged, he defended the
oppressed man and avenged him by striking the Egyptian.

We enjoined the human being
to honor his parents.
His mother bore him arduously,
gave birth to him arduously,
and took intimate care
of him for thirty months.
When he reaches maturity,
and reaches the age of forty,
he should say,
"My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have
bestowed upon me and upon my parents,
and to do the righteous works that please You.
Let my children be righteous as well.
I have repented to You; I am a submitter." (4615)

http//www.submission.org/quran/app32.html

You can check the maths to it as well.

[6619]

You mean the age of 40? There is no afterlife in the Bible. Sheol is the end of all mankind. All rewards and punishments are in this world. That what the Torah teaches.

Peace.

it is not true
21105 We have decreed in the Psalms, as well as in other scriptures, that the earth shall be inherited by My righteous worshipers.

1. Many Old Testament scriptures make reference to a life after death.
   Job 1925-27 "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another..."

Psalms 169, 10 "... my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell..."
Isaiah 514, 15 "Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure; and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled."

Isaiah 149 "Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming; it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth..."

2. Jesus spoke of a life after death.
   1340 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
   1341 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
   1342 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
   1343 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[unknownuser]

The truth is that everyone on this forum is deeply troubled by 9128-129. No one will have the guts to admit it.

Why should anyone be troubled you taking a spread sheet manipulating to get a multiple?

I know it disturbs you that it works with 9128-129 ? repent before its too late! lol

The only ones who are not deeply troubled and saw their faith increase greatly (7431) are those who understand how profoundly they violate the miracle of 19 and purified their garment (744).

http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=74505
Click Browse Word

Read in context, take the conjectures especially nineteen out of your head.

THERE IS NO SECRET and chapter 74 addresses a person...

You, you the wrapped/covered
Stand, so warn/give notice
And your Lord, so magnify/exalt
And your clothes, so purify/clean
And the idol worship, so abandon
And give your wealth and person selflessly
And to your Lord, so be patient

No matter what, shirk is shirk, and those who allow themselves to believe Muhammad is raheem (912 are struck with a level of disbelief that will bar them from heaven.

9128

9129

Beautiful verses, part of 9129 written on mountains by early followers...
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/hamid3.html

I showed my proofs (incontrovertible), in great detail, regarding the falsety of 9128-129
Part 1http//www.islamrevolution.org/9128129parti.htm
Part 2 http//www.islamrevolution.org/9128129partii.htm
Where are your proofs that 9128-129 are part of Quran ?!

You showed only manipulation and naivety...

easily see that it?s all random meaningless conjectures... 1. Start with preconception to meet desire (fitna) 2. Try all sorts of combinations look for anything nineteen (a hit gives you a buzz) 3. Show only multiples hide everything else that is not multiple

nineteen is for the naive!

I'll let you figure out that one. Since it is incontrovertible proven there are a number of discrepancies between qurans (modern and oldest Qurans alike) at least orthographically, and sometimes even with words (http//www.submission.org/quran/protect.html), how do you reconcile the fact that God protected His Quran? The truth is you do not believe in 159. You are clueless when it comes to provide solutions to God's promise to pefectly preserve His Word, the Quran.

Same missionary type of bs questions to create doubt.
http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

The meanings of the words are known in recitation which if wasn't preserved as such you'd be clueless as to the number words or if someone was to flip verses between the two smallest chapters or change ALM to LAM, delete/add words and letters within each chapter -- perhaps tell us how nineteen prevents this?

1081
1082
1083

1101
1102
1103

Only us, who believe in the miracle of 19 - God's miracle - provided not just a response, but an eternal solution, and what a formidable one for those who have eyes to see!

Here if you like playing with numbers...

6236 <---- Total Verses in Qur'an

We enjoined the human being
to honor his parents.
His mother bore him arduously,
gave birth to him arduously,
and took intimate care
of him for thirty months.
When he reaches maturity,
and reaches the age of forty,
he should say,
"My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have
bestowed upon me and upon my parents,
and to do the righteous works that please You.
Let my children be righteous as well.
I have repented to You; I am a submitter." (4615)

And We directed the human a goodness with his parents, his mother became pregnant with him compellingly

(Pregnancy phase)

And she gave birth to him compellingly
And his weight/pregnancy with him
And his wearing thirty shahr until when he reached his maturity

(Childhood to maturity; i.e. young adult)

And he reached forty years, he said "My Lord inspire me that I be grateful (for) your blessing which you blessed on me and on my parents
And that I do righteous deeds you accept
And correct for me in my descendants that I repented to you
And that I am from the Muslims."

(Older adult phase; life experience sometimes leads to wisdom)

Peace

[6619]

Read in context, take the conjectures especially nineteen out of your head.

THERE IS NO SECRET and chapter 74 addresses a person...

You, you the wrapped/covered
Stand, so warn/give notice
And your Lord, so magnify/exalt
And your clothes, so purify/clean
And the idol worship, so abandon
And give your wealth and person selflessly
And to your Lord, so be patient

Salaam,

Yes, it adresses a person, and in case you don't know there are many symbols in Quran. Symbolically our garments is Quran, we need to purify it from impurities (9128-129) through a symbolic test of fire
http//www.islamrevolution.org/19thetestoffire.htm

The idol worship mentioned in the verses you quoted is the one of people worshiping Muhammad and believeing he will intercede on the day of judgment (the so called "great intercession" sunni Muslims believe in) because they believe he is "raheem" (merciful) per 9128.

Peace.

Pierre

[unknownuser]

Salaam,

Yes, it adresses a person, and in case you don't know there are many symbols in Quran. Symbolically our garments is Quran, we need to purify it from impurities (9128-129) through a symbolic test of fire
http//www.islamrevolution.org/19thetestoffire.htm

On it (are) nine ten
And We did not make the fire's owners ONLY angels ( )
And We did not make their count ONLY a test ( ) to those who disbelieve

Assuredly ( ) those given The Book, and increase those who believe faith and those given The Book and the believers do not become doubtful

(above is the phrase most butchered in translation; the believers do not ask for proofs or miracles)

And those whom in their hearts/minds sickness (doubt), and the disbelievers ask "What God intended with that (as) an example?"

(The cults, numerologists into symbolism always conjecturing -- why this, why that, must be this, must be that)

Like that God misguides whom He wills and He guides whom He wills, and none know your Lord's soldiers except Him, and it is not except a reminder to the human.

(Nothing to do with your litmus test believe in nineteen to be saved or else)

The idol worship mentioned in the verses you quoted is the one of people worshiping Muhammad and believeing he will intercede on the day of judgment (the so called "great intercession" sunni Muslims believe in) because they believe he is "raheem" (merciful) per 9128.

In context means caring applicable to people same as The Mighty depending on context

http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=2310
Click Browse Word

As far as idols go, they are the thing which occupies your mind the most; look at your sign-on.

I have to go now; hope to be back in a few weeks do a write up on inheritance verses mangled in translation; surprised none of those into numerology bother to investigate instead waste time searching for multiples -- they are clear verses, no abiguity in math like appending Eid at the end of the 1st chapter as some say Ameen...

gv= 70 10 4

Chapter, total verses
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter
Verse #, #of letters, gv of each letter

1 7
1 19 2 60 40 1 30 30 5 1 30 200 8 40 50 1 30 200 8 10 40
2 17 1 30 8 40 4 30 30 5 200 2 1 30 70 30 40 10 50
3 12 1 30 200 8 40 50 1 30 200 8 10 40
4 11 40 30 20 10 6 40 1 30 4 10 50
5 19 1 10 1 20 50 70 2 4 6 1 10 1 20 50 60 400 70 10 50
6 18 1 5 4 50 1 1 30 90 200 9 1 30 40 60 400 100 10 40
7 46 90 200 9 1 30 700 10 50 1 50 70 40 400 70 30 10 5 40 1000 10 200 1 30 40 1000 800 6 2 70 30 10 5 40 6 30 1 1 30 800 1 30 10 50

70 10 4

= 19 x 90101370533173954221 09686848957937389587 96360022647642116477 38442160542743694781

Peace,

[Rami]

Moses, at the age of 40, has it in his heart to visit his people, the
Hebrews. When he saw an Egyptian beating one of his brethren, he
avenged him by killing the Egyptian and buried his body in the sand.
Moses then fled from the presence of Pharaoh into the desert of Midian
because Pharaoh sought to kill him.The Bible also says that Moses
was grown up during this occurrence.

One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people
and looked on their burdens; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew,
one of his people.

Acts 723] "When he was forty years old, it came into his heart to
visit his brethren, the sons of Israel.

And seeing one of them being wronged, he defended the
oppressed man and avenged him by striking the Egyptian.

We enjoined the human being
to honor his parents.
His mother bore him arduously,
gave birth to him arduously,
and took intimate care
of him for thirty months.
When he reaches maturity,
and reaches the age of forty,
he should say,
"My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have
bestowed upon me and upon my parents,
and to do the righteous works that please You.
Let my children be righteous as well.
I have repented to You; I am a submitter." (4615)

http//www.submission.org/quran/app32.html

You can check the maths to it as well.

But this has nothing to do with the afterlife, brother. Where in the Torah doesn't even refer to an afterlife or at least call the Hebrews to believe in it. Have you ever wondered why God was punishing the first generations? Why was he doing this if there is a hell-fire? This is ofcourse what some Jews argue with. The fire of Gehenna and the garden of Eden are places on Earth and not an abode in the hereafter. I still don't have any satisfactory answer to this puzzle.

Peace,

Rami

[Rami]

it is not true
21105 We have decreed in the Psalms, as well as in other scriptures, that the earth shall be inherited by My righteous worshipers.

1. Many Old Testament scriptures make reference to a life after death.
   Job 1925-27 "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another..."

Psalms 169, 10 "... my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell..."
Isaiah 514, 15 "Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure; and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled."

Isaiah 149 "Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming; it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth..."

2. Jesus spoke of a life after death.
   1340 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
   1341 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
   1342 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
   1343 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mistranslations. Dust to dust. All man end to sheol which is mistranslated as Hell. Check it again.

Peace,

Rami