Re: How did Music become HARAM?
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salam sister
Salaam Brother,
No, Sex is not bad at all, in fact sex is a beautiful thing. But this beautiful thing only can be shared between husband and wife and its only for them (in private), its not something for u to do it in public, its not something for u to promote it, its something thats natural from Above.
So brother, Sex is not bad thats for sure, but sex is sacred thing that we only can share with our mate (husband or wife) in private.Salaam
I agree.
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peace waleed
no, sex jokes are not the only jokes that are funny, when did i ever imply that?
you are right, you didn't. I am just saying why are sex jokes so necessary? why do we need sex jokes to laugh? Thought it depends on what kind of sex jokes they are.
no, the joke itself is not educational, but it can help make a point, like in a health class maybe?
hehe you are trying for every excuse you can Do we need a joke to do that?
You have to look at all possibilites before you label/ judge something.
I always do. At least always try to. It's very important for me to be unbiased.
But, I have looked at the possiblities.
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Salaam Brother,
U said this
I mean it doesnt matter if bollywood is becoming more sex-oriented cus its a natural thing
Yes brother, it is MATTER. And when u said its just a natural thing, do u mean its just a natural thing for people to go far from truth? its just a natural thing for people to go astray?
When u said "it doesnt matter", do u mean, it doesnt matter for us the east people to mantain our charity? it doesnt matter for us the east people to mantain our good culture and dress modestly? it doesnt matter to leave a good traditional value that we use to have and become "western"?
Thats surely without a doubt MATTER, brother.YES religion does say that we should be modest but how are we not modest when we sing about sex etc?
The question is, how are we going to be modest when we LISTEN to those SEX type of music???
How would a man could be loyal when they like to hear other women's sex type of voice???
How would a woman could be loyal when they like to hear other man's sex type of voice???
Im not saying that we can not hear any opposite sex's voice, but what I meant here is in the "SEX" category.
When some musics make sound like woman having sex or like man having sex and we listen to it?
Do u think we can be modest?If Allah tells us to eat from a good provision, if Allah tells us to subdue our sight to another opposite sex, do u think Allah doesnt tell us to listen for things from a good provision and to subdue the hearing from those kind of music???
Do u think it will be modest for a man to come home from work (while he has his wife all day taking care the house and kids and her body has changed over time after giving some birth) and he relax and listen to the type of sex song (let me give u an example of the lyric)
(woman singing)
"I know u want me, I know u do....
..............................................
Don't u wish ur gf is hot like me,
don't u wish ur gf is freak like me"And do u think the man that listen to the music doesnt picturing himself with some of sexy women etc??1??
Theres no way he will picturing himself with his wife when his wife is not in a good shape anymore after giving some births, and those music are not incouraging u to remember ur wife either in any kind of fashion.
What about the feeling of the wife? wont she feel offended? wont she feel that she has tried to be the best wife and mom for her husband and kids but what her husband wants is just "a sexy woman"
Dont u think that those kind of things would come out from her mind?
What happen to the value about true love? about sincery love and to love people for just the way they are???Do u think someone can be real modest when they keep listen to those kind of music??!??
THINK ABOUT IT, Brother !!!!!!!!!
Salaam
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Salaam brother Imran K,
I agree with u brother, the sex type of music doesnt have any benefit but just lead of to EVIL.
Some people say, its okay to listen to sex type of music to spice up ur sex life (with ur mate (husband or wife)), but what do they mean by this? Do they mean they need another woman's voice in sex to spice up their sex life? Do they mean they need another man's voice in sex to spice up their sex life?
For my opinion, its just too shallow, since a marriage couple sex life can be spice up in much more way than that.
When we do good with each other, when we re being loyal and honest to each other, we when accept our mate sincerly for just the way we are, when we forgive each other, when we spend time to do salaat together, etc, that then right there could effect it because we are bonding with each other. And thats what True Love is.
True sex is not just about physical but its abt deep mental which is the way we feel about each other (in marriage).Salaam
it's just that when I do something I always ask myself, what benefit does this have? And I see none w/ these. They ONLY lead to evil.
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peace phoenix
no... not just a mention of it. I dont know how you got that idea. The mention of sex isn't bad. In what context it is in is the problem.
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Exactly Pheonix why is the mention of sex soo bad? Its not some bad word or anything. I mean we have to open up to these things! Why to close ourselves in the cupboard?
What do you mean what context? Should there be a song saying 'sex is good for the health and people should do it more often' .. hahaha ! Thinking or singing about sex wont make us bad!
Fatimah man I think theres nothing wrong with a husband and wife praising another man/woman provided they compliment eachother as well ) ... Ok bollywood is becoming too much sex-oritneted but afterall they have to compete with Hollywood. As for the dress modestly thing, everyone dresses modestly according to him/herself. It depends in which culture you are in etc...i just belive where whatever ur comfortable in but it shouldnt look vulgar at the same time ... come on are you telling me hte saris actresses wear in india are vulgar? They make her look beautiful and sexy and nothing wrong in that i think! -
Salaam Brother,
I think theres nothing wrong with a husband and wife praising another man/woman provided they compliment eachother as well
Could u explain me on what u mean by "husband and wife praising another man/woman" ?
And what u mean by "provided they compliment each other as well" ?Ok bollywood is becoming too much sex-oritneted but afterall they have to compete with Hollywood.
So u mean, since they compete with Hollywood, its justified their action to become sex-oriented??!??
Brother, in my opinion, I believe greatly that Bollywood can compete with Hollywood even without becoming sex-oriented (westernized). They have great actresses and actors and also great musicians and great people to produce films that can beat any hollywood movie out of the water. They have a great culture, traditional value that we hope to be keep preserved.
I think with all of those, they dont need to be sex oriented just to "compete" with hollywood.If one of your daughter started to wear tight cloths outside and she told u the reason was because she had to "compete" with her friends (for whatever reason) or just to be like her friends or to blend with her friends, what u gonna say with u being a muslim?
come on are you telling me hte saris actresses wear in india are vulgar? They make her look beautiful and sexy and nothing wrong in that i think!
Brother, what we are talking here is under Islamic value. Our Islamic law dress code are to leghten ur garment and to draw ur head-coverings over ur bossoms. If u judge their kind of dress (the indian actress) with the Islamic value and law that we have, what u gonna say about them then?
Salaam
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peace phoenix
no... not just a mention of it. I dont know how you got that idea. The mention of sex isn't bad. In what context it is in is the problem.
peace imran,
that's what i'm saying. confused
So what's wrong with a sex joke used in appropriate circumstances? -
Salaam all...
I just thought I'd give my two cents in this (lengthy...) discussion.
I personally enjoy listening to rap/hiphop (among other genres), mainly because I enjoy the music itself. As for the lyrics of rap... Sure, many rap-lyrics can be offensive and portrait behaviour which are not to strive for in daily life. But then again, you have to have some distance to what you're hearing. I find many lyrics amusing and funny too. From my point of view, having listened to hip-hop for many many years, the majority of things said in these songs are not serious. Even as an attitude, it's not serious. If you listen to hiphop in a more diverse manner, you will find that many lyrics are very political and question behaviour such as degrading women, oppressing each other and so on. To me, I don't take it seriously if a rapper sings about sex and women in one song and in the next demonizes rape, teen-sex, prostitution and goes on with praising his mother in the song after that.
All in all, everything you hear and see is what you make of it. Sure, some lyrics may be offensive, but try to see the big picture. Maybe the rapper (in this case) is being ironic, something which is very hard to grasp from hearing just ONE song. From an outside perspective, hiphop may seem degrading to women, but most of the people I know who are into hiphop and other political music, are the ones who are most aware of injustices and misbehaviour in society, and also the ones who fight these things the most. Many things I hear in this music can be directly related to thing I read in the Quran. But like I said before, everything is only what you make of it, right? )
That's all for now... Peace!
/Erik
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Salaam Brother Erik,
For me personally, Im not against any hiphop/rap music as long as they dont talk about HARAM subject that we've been discussed. In my knowledge, there's some hiphop/rap music that talk about concious things, truth, struggle and thats the type of hiphop/rap music that we should support.
So personally Brother Erik, Im not against any kind or any type of music, Im just against those HARAM music that they already start make it like "TREND" and the "POPULAR" music among our sociaty.Salaam
Salaam all...
I just thought I'd give my two cents in this (lengthy...) discussion.
I personally enjoy listening to rap/hiphop (among other genres), mainly because I enjoy the music itself. As for the lyrics of rap... Sure, many rap-lyrics can be offensive and portrait behaviour which are not to strive for in daily life. But then again, you have to have some distance to what you're hearing. I find many lyrics amusing and funny too. From my point of view, having listened to hip-hop for many many years, the majority of things said in these songs are not serious. Even as an attitude, it's not serious. If you listen to hiphop in a more diverse manner, you will find that many lyrics are very political and question behaviour such as degrading women, oppressing each other and so on. To me, I don't take it seriously if a rapper sings about sex and women in one song and in the next demonizes rape, teen-sex, prostitution and goes on with praising his mother in the song after that.
All in all, everything you hear and see is what you make of it. Sure, some lyrics may be offensive, but try to see the big picture. Maybe the rapper (in this case) is being ironic, something which is very hard to grasp from hearing just ONE song. From an outside perspective, hiphop may seem degrading to women, but most of the people I know who are into hiphop and other political music, are the ones who are most aware of injustices and misbehaviour in society, and also the ones who fight these things the most. Many things I hear in this music can be directly related to thing I read in the Quran. But like I said before, everything is only what you make of it, right?
That's all for now... Peace!
/Erik
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Salaam!
Fair enough, I agree with you. I just thought there was a lot of negative things said about this type of music, and focus was lost from the initial discussion.
/E
Salaam Brother Erik,
For me personally, Im not against any hiphop/rap music as long as they dont talk about HARAM subject that we've been discussed. In my knowledge, there's some hiphop/rap music that talk about concious things, truth, struggle and thats the type of hiphop/rap music that we should support.
So personally Brother Erik, Im not against any kind or any type of music, Im just against those HARAM music that they already start make it like "TREND" and the "POPULAR" music among our sociaty.Salaam
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Salaam all...
I just thought I'd give my two cents in this (lengthy...) discussion.
I personally enjoy listening to rap/hiphop (among other genres), mainly because I enjoy the music itself. As for the lyrics of rap... Sure, many rap-lyrics can be offensive and portrait behaviour which are not to strive for in daily life. But then again, you have to have some distance to what you're hearing. I find many lyrics amusing and funny too. From my point of view, having listened to hip-hop for many many years, the majority of things said in these songs are not serious. Even as an attitude, it's not serious. If you listen to hiphop in a more diverse manner, you will find that many lyrics are very political and question behaviour such as degrading women, oppressing each other and so on. To me, I don't take it seriously if a rapper sings about sex and women in one song and in the next demonizes rape, teen-sex, prostitution and goes on with praising his mother in the song after that.
All in all, everything you hear and see is what you make of it. Sure, some lyrics may be offensive, but try to see the big picture. Maybe the rapper (in this case) is being ironic, something which is very hard to grasp from hearing just ONE song. From an outside perspective, hiphop may seem degrading to women, but most of the people I know who are into hiphop and other political music, are the ones who are most aware of injustices and misbehaviour in society, and also the ones who fight these things the most. Many things I hear in this music can be directly related to thing I read in the Quran. But like I said before, everything is only what you make of it, right?
That's all for now... Peace!
/Erik
You basically said what I wanted to convey .. It just depends on what a person makes of the music! Not all music about sex or women has to be bad or negative ... we shouldnt see verything in a negative light!!
Fatimah as for our discussion on women's clothes .. The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it? In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!
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Salaam Ammarb87
Fatimah as for our discussion on women's clothes .. The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it?
Qur'aan 3359
O Prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the believing women to lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. Allah is Forgiver, Most Merciful.If u see it in Arabic, then they key of the arabic word on that verse is Jalabibihinna, this is translated as "leghthen their garments" and when u look up the word, it means a long dress or gown. So this is the correct dress code in Islam and shorts contradict the lenght that is prescribed by Allah in Qur'aan 3359.
In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God
Brother, not only on those days but also in these days women hardly wore anything so with logically thinking, do u really think Allah would suggest to "at least" cover your breasts?
Qur'aan 2431
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and mantain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary-and draw their head-covering over their bossoms...So, according to the law that Allah gives us for our dress code, we have to
- Leghten our garments
- Draw the head-covering over the bossoms (for woman)
No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!
I have pointed u out the limit that Allah gives us for our dress code. We can not create our own standart based on our own understanding. Modest in people standart doesnt mean modest in Allah standart.
Salaam
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Peace Sis Fatimah
I enjoyed your posts on this thread - thanks for the insight )
I believe the issue of physical modesty of clothing in Islam is left to place and time. Today in many parts of the world, and for many job occupations, dresses are unpractical for the Muslim woman. Therefore, if we limit the interpretation to a long dress or gown, it would not fit our place or time. A garment can basically be anything. If we take the aya strictly in the physical sense, it would mean that we should not go to extremes in our fashion. If the new fashion is tight hot-shorts that barely cover your rear-end, then lenghthen that garment to a legth that is considered conservative, or modest, in your space and time. The bosom is actually the only part of the human anatomy that was mentioned in this matter. So that area is the only absolute.
However, what if we were to examine the issue of modesty in the light of our attitudes and behavior? I think then we would get the right mind-set. If the mind-set is that of a modest and humble person, we will carry ourselves with kindness towards our fellow man, empathy towards the weak or oppressed, we will not be so bold as to objectify men or women on the basis of their body parts, and it will then carry into the way we carry ourselves and the way we dress. Just something to think about )
Peace All
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Here is what I feel
It became haram when people said it was haraam. In other words when people (scholars, imams, mullahs and other self appointed Islamic "experts" decided it was haraam. When people decided to oppress and control other people, music became haram. When they realised that music can be therapeutic, beneficial and healing, it became bad because anything that makes us feel good certainly must in reality be bad -- according to their small minds. Even the Ayatollah Khomeini was quoted as saying, "There is no fun in Islam."
Not in HIS version, that's for certain! shock
In 31.6 Luqman, in my Saudi Qu'ran it states "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, or the Verses of the Qu'ran) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire)."
Notice how music and singing are in parentheses, inserted by scholars to forbid something God did not forbid. Why would God forbid something so natural?
My Abdullah Yusuf Ali Qu'ran translation, in footnote 4168 - "All nature sings in unison and celebrates the praises of Allah. David was given the gift of music and psalmody, and therefore the hills and birds are expressed as singing Allah's praises in unison with him (David)."
Some Qu'ran translations as someone else stated, contain the word "sing". Others have replaced "sing" with "echo", as has my Saudi Qu'ran.Music being forbidden is not logical. If people would just THINK and use LOGIC and REASONING they would understand that music is natural and occurs all around us, often without us even noticing its presence.
Music is all around us in everyday life from the 60 hertz hum of an electronic machine that hums in a particular key, to birds singing, to the phenomenon of space radio (reception of natural radio signals which are produced by lightning and aurora) which produces sferics and whistlers http//www.hobbyspace.com/Radio/, even to our own voices which are musical notes. Even math and music are scientifically related.
Who else could have created all of this into music for us but the one and only true God? Who else could have given some of us the gift to be able to sing and create music but God? And how dare us deny such a gift of God!
Even the sounds of drums are able to change brainwave patterns and make one relax. It works for me, just try it one day and see. Amazing.
Even on Judgment Day, what will be used to let us know that day has come? A TRUMPET. A trumpet is no less than a musical instrument.
Life without music is no life at all. It is natural, healthy, therapeutic.
Those same hypocrites who tell you music is forbidden are the ones you will see watching television and using computers and cellphones, all which as you know, contain music. These same hypocrites will listen to various people "reciting" Qu'ran in musical tones! Those people are SINGING.6.150 - Say "Bring forward your witnesses to prove that God did forbid so and so."
So tell me, when someone says to me music is forbidden, I want them to bring proof from witnesses that God FORBID music.D
lolAs salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.Yes, i agree 100%. I couldn't said it better. I totally agree with you. Mucis calms you down, inspires you, well, at least me when i write scripts. sun
As salamu alaykum. jedi
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They create it for ALL. Means ur kids would hear it, ur kids would watch it and they will keep those things on their mind etc.
So what do u think about this brother?Salaam
I think that this line of logic only hurts us ultimately. I think we all know that realistically there are very few cases of people who have had absolutely no interest in sex until hearing some Marvin Gaye. Music does not inspire sexual thoughts, a sexual attraction to people inspires sexual thoughts. I can honestly say that if anyone I know was ever to publicly state that hearing a song made them feel sexually aroused they would be a candidate for sectioning.We all know that people naturally grow up and become interested in sex and music really plays no role in that. Anyone who believes that certain behaviour is wrong (or not even ncessarily wrong, just not the type of thing they want to indulge in) is well within their rights to distance themselves from from any media that references that behaviour but really I think that acting as if hearing some S Club 7 is gonna transform straight laced individuals into sexual tyranosaurs is somewhat absurd.
Let's put it like this for those who think music will lead people astray, how many Barry White albums will it take to transform you from celibate/monogamous to latter day Cassanova?
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peace
i know we're kind getting offtopic but i wanted to address this dress-code thing
The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it? In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!
The islamic women dress code is this
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.]
Another words when you walk down the street no-one will call you the 4 word that starts with an s or the 5 letter word that starts with a w. And guys usually go after girls who are dressed this way. To avoid being insulted. This is for the protection of women.
On the subject of rap music
Am i missing something or since when there is rap music that doesn't involve a curse word every other second? Sure it maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
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On the subject of rap music
Am i missing something or since when there is rap music that doesn't involve a curse word every other second? Sure it maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
On the subject of Muslims
Am i missing something or since when there is Muslims that doesn't promote and support terrorism? Sure they maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
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Hi Ron Mexico
What does terrorism have to do with music? Could it be a cheap shot since you like rap music so much? Racism will not be tolerated, brother. Since you don't seem to know the basic statistics of the situation YOU brought up let me break it down for you.
of people who call themselves Muslim in this world 1.2 Billion
of people involved in terrorism let's see you got the terrorizing of innocent civilians in Iraq by (guess who?) that would bring the count up 1 plus his administration, let's just round it out to an even 200. They're doing the same thing to the civilians of Afghanistan. Well I counted the administration last time, let me throw in the troops since they're the ones actually carrying out the actions of Haditha Massacre, others like it, Abu Ghraib, killing and maiming innocent children in the street, etc etc. You know the deal I don't have to spell it out for you do I? Back to the simple math we're doing the number is up to 100,200. Don't forget the Allies who are helping out in the supression of others. Let's just bring it up another 50,000. That would be 150,200 so far. Let's not forget the state-sponsored terrorism the zionist state of israel against the muslim and christian Palestinians. That brings it up a good 50,000, most likely more. 200,200 we got so far, hmm it's not looking too good for you, bro. How many of these terrorists are Muslim? Zip.
But who can forget Osama bin Laden and his crew? That would bring the toll up to 1,000, if they're lucky. Wow. 200,200 to a measely 1,000. That's quite impressive by the way that those 1,000 could still operate when the world's superpower is against them. I guess the world's superpower doesn't really care about those loonies. They got their eyes on the prize
Hmm so conclusion 1.2 Billion people who call themselves Muslim vs. 1,000 terrorists.
Am i missing something or since when there is Muslims that doesn't promote and support terrorism? Sure they maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
I don't think so. Next time, if you'd like to spread hate, at least get your facts straight so people believe you.
Peace All