?Four Ashhur and ten days? or ?Four ashhur and ten ashhur??
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I think you are right, what ever is the unit , the next number has to be counted/taken in the same unit unless specified otherwise, which in this case should be shahr.
Now with this new understanding, her idda is 4 shahr, but if she is found to be pregnant, then it automatically extends to a Matta, which is a hawl ,of 10 shahr. Makes sense.
siki
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In my understanding the ?3idda? for widows is four ashhur. And ?mata3? is 10 ashhur. This is what mentioned in 2.234. It is not four ashhur and ten days but it is four ashhur and ten ashhur. God did not mention ?days? in 2.234.
How both four and ten could mean month?
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How both four and ten could mean month?
In fact, it could only mean shahr . If it were 4 months and 10 days, it should be . In Atrabic counting, the ten does not agree with the gender of the counted except when it is in a compound number (1-19)! Here, the ten is as masculine as shahr.
Well done Tlepsh!
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How both four and ten could mean month?
In fact, it could only mean shahr . If it were 4 months and 10 days, it should be . In Atrabic counting, the ten does not agree with the gender of the counted except when it is in a compound number (1-19)! Here, the ten is as masculine as shahr.
Well done Tlepsh!
Siste,
In the rule books I read that in case of 13-19 the second part of the adad agress with the madud and the first part is opposite gender; and secondly that madud of 13-19 is accusative singular. means only fourteen moon months. is masculine.
But Quran's words are different.The rule for 3-10 is that the numbers/adad do not agree with the madud, i.e. if the madud is masculine the number/adad is feminine and vica versa. Secondly the madud of 3-10 is genitive plural.
Siste, Please make me understand the rationale behind arriving at the aforesaid conclusion.
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If we take 3ashr (ten) as an isolated digit, it's in the masculine and should not agree with shahr/yaum (both masculine) only in one case when it's the second of a two digit number (13-19). So, either 3ashr (10) is part of a two digit number, or it's counting something else which is feminine (neither shahr nor day)...perhaps hours/minutes/seconds all of which are feminine ;D
Well... scholars say it's (ten nights).
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If we take 3ashr (ten) as an isolated digit, it's in the masculine and should not agree with shahr/yaum (both masculine) only in one case when it's the second of a two digit number (13-19). So, either 3ashr (10) is part of a two digit number, or it's counting something else which is feminine (neither shahr nor day)...perhaps hours/minutes/seconds all of which are feminine ;D
Well... scholars say it's (ten nights).
will certainly not agree both with shahr/yaum, being singular and masculine. In the count, days come immediately after month not hours since moon month comprises of days. Therefore what would hamper to understand that refers only
which meets all the conditionlities of the referred rules.Pl guide, Sister.
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Therefore what would hamper to understand that refers only
which meets all the conditionlities of the referred rules.Pl guide, Sister.
\ and \ are not grammatically different both are masculine when in the singular. If "shahr" does not fit, "yaum" won't either. That's why scholars such as Zamakhshary went for \ (night/s) which is feminie
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But Sister, the Grand Quran has used \ for two different and distinct things. It is used masculine when only refers to Day time . Quran has never used it masculine when it means complete day inclusive of night. The distinction laid by the Quran seems to have been missed
(4116)
It started at day time
(5419)
(6907) seven nights and 8 sun times, started at day light time and ended on day light time.
(280} This refers to the day
(,203;324;2184,(3140)
(754; 1002;1107; 2559; 324; 5038 and 5704)
(6924) -
But Sister, the Grand Quran has used \ for two different and distinct things. It is used masculine when only refers to Day time . Quran has never used it masculine when it means complete day inclusive of night. The distinction laid by the Quran seems to have been missed
(4116)
It started at day time
(5419)
(6907) seven nights and 8 sun times, started at day light time and ended on day light time.
(280} This refers to the day
(,203;324;2184,(3140)
(754; 1002;1107; 2559; 324; 5038 and 5704)
(6924)The only two similar usages are verse 6907 and 754 and . Our verse is whether it was or . Notice the numbers in these three inistances and . You see what I mean? The quraan uses feminine numbers for (days), in accordance with the general language rules; and what we have is a masculine number , so it cannot be couning days. It cannot be counting shahrs except if we look at it as .
The other usages are completely different is not . -
The quraan uses feminine numbers for (days), in accordance with the general language rules;
Sister,
But I do not find this thing at all the 405 points of occurence of word Yaum in the Quran. It has used feminine adad only with respect to day in the meaning of 12 hour masculine day not inclusive of night. And for complete day of the month [ }comprising of day and night it has always used masculine number.
This gives us the information that he could not speak for three days equalling just 36 hours and that he could speak during the night time. But Quran has informed, so that we know the fact and also learn nicities of Arabic language.
The point I am trying to highlight is that Arabic word has feminine number/adad only when it is used for bright part of the day, and has masculine gender when it is used for the Day of the month. I could not find any exception to this in the Quran.
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Sister,
But I do not find this thing at all the 405 points of occurence of word Yaum in the Quran. It has used feminine adad only with respect to day in the meaning of 12 hour masculine day not inclusive of night. And for complete day of the month .When the number is a compound number (13-14),the first part (3-9) is feminine but the second part should be masculine. We have a masculine "3ashr" .So either it is a one digit number and so "ayam" is not correct,or it's the second number of a compound number (e.g 14in the case of this verse) and the whole 14 should refer to shahr or to yaum.Since yaum is not even mentioned,we go for 14 shahr.
Example thamanyata 3ashr yauman; 3ashrata ayam(18 days; 10 days)(day is masculine; as well asshahr)
thamani 3ashrata lailatan; 3ashr layali (18 nights; ten nights) (night is feminine) -
Can a perception of number from 13 to 19 be indicated to the listener or reader by placing a waw in between the cardinal and ordinals after the noun?
You mean as in (ر
We have a similar incident in the qur'aan with three digit numbers (1825). In Arabic in general, if this exists, it's mostly tailored along the lines of the qur'aan style.
Maybe this explains the somehow complexity of the numbering system in Arabic To allow for limitless combinations as long as the rules are respected. -
But Sister in what respect there is a similarity in these two?
Sister being teacher you know for non Arabs these digits and plurals are quite a difficult subject. Therefore I am seeking clarifications. I hope it is not taxing.
Look at it this way
300 years and increased 9
4 ashhur and .........10 -
That was how I saw and requested for some justification because
and are identical but and are not. And then it will make no sense with whereas in the case of years it makes things evident with . The calendar used in the locality of incident was solar and for Arabs 9 are added to 300 solar years which are equal to 309 lunar years.
The issue cropped up because of this opinion
One ?hawl? is one cycle which is the pregnancy period for human beings. It is equal to 10 moon cycles or 10 ashhur. The waiting period for women to ensure if there is pregnancy or not is called ?3idda? in Quran.
I went through Wakas Root project, I could not find where ?hawl? could be said to be one cycle or to have any relationship with conception and pregnancy. On the contrary it is used about not having conceived and become pregnant. And is used for a year not 10 months.
Average/mostly Pregnancy period for human beings is 266 days while 10 ashhur is equal to 295 days. Menses is absolutely the personal matter of a woman and only her husband has the right to know about it, not the society. After a husband has left his wife, the time is measured by months and days and not by menstruation cycle of the concerned lady. The prescription of cycles in case of divorce is not to wait and see the appearance of conception, but its primary objective is to provide an intervening period to the husband to review decision, and it is he who is told to keep counting the menstruation cycles of his divorced wife. Wife is advised to restrain taking a firm decision about her future course during this period.
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That was how I saw and requested for some justification because
and are identical but and are not. And then it will make no sense with whereas in the case of years it makes things evident with . The calendar used in the locality of incident was solar and for Arabs 9 are added to 300 solar years which are equal to 309 lunar years.
Because 3 is an isolated number, not part of a compound two-digit number. It's counting "100 feminine)" 9 is counting "years (feminine)".
and .
Counting a masculine noun 3-10
.....
Counting a masculine noun 13-19
....
days has the same case as for shahr .Counting feminine noun 3-10
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Counting feminine noun 13-19I was responding to your question whether we can brak-up the complex/compound number by a noun, and I gave you the example of 300 and increased 9, instead of 309 in one go. As for your explanation that this is counting lunar and solar years, I have no idea and cannot comment. It's just an explanation. Why couldn't it be 300 years and 900 years?! If they can sleep 300 years, they can sleep 1200 years ;D