?Four Ashhur and ten days? or ?Four ashhur and ten ashhur??
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Therefore what would hamper to understand that refers only
which meets all the conditionlities of the referred rules.Pl guide, Sister.
\ and \ are not grammatically different both are masculine when in the singular. If "shahr" does not fit, "yaum" won't either. That's why scholars such as Zamakhshary went for \ (night/s) which is feminie
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But Sister, the Grand Quran has used \ for two different and distinct things. It is used masculine when only refers to Day time . Quran has never used it masculine when it means complete day inclusive of night. The distinction laid by the Quran seems to have been missed
(4116)
It started at day time
(5419)
(6907) seven nights and 8 sun times, started at day light time and ended on day light time.
(280} This refers to the day
(,203;324;2184,(3140)
(754; 1002;1107; 2559; 324; 5038 and 5704)
(6924) -
But Sister, the Grand Quran has used \ for two different and distinct things. It is used masculine when only refers to Day time . Quran has never used it masculine when it means complete day inclusive of night. The distinction laid by the Quran seems to have been missed
(4116)
It started at day time
(5419)
(6907) seven nights and 8 sun times, started at day light time and ended on day light time.
(280} This refers to the day
(,203;324;2184,(3140)
(754; 1002;1107; 2559; 324; 5038 and 5704)
(6924)The only two similar usages are verse 6907 and 754 and . Our verse is whether it was or . Notice the numbers in these three inistances and . You see what I mean? The quraan uses feminine numbers for (days), in accordance with the general language rules; and what we have is a masculine number , so it cannot be couning days. It cannot be counting shahrs except if we look at it as .
The other usages are completely different is not . -
The quraan uses feminine numbers for (days), in accordance with the general language rules;
Sister,
But I do not find this thing at all the 405 points of occurence of word Yaum in the Quran. It has used feminine adad only with respect to day in the meaning of 12 hour masculine day not inclusive of night. And for complete day of the month [ }comprising of day and night it has always used masculine number.
This gives us the information that he could not speak for three days equalling just 36 hours and that he could speak during the night time. But Quran has informed, so that we know the fact and also learn nicities of Arabic language.
The point I am trying to highlight is that Arabic word has feminine number/adad only when it is used for bright part of the day, and has masculine gender when it is used for the Day of the month. I could not find any exception to this in the Quran.
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Sister,
But I do not find this thing at all the 405 points of occurence of word Yaum in the Quran. It has used feminine adad only with respect to day in the meaning of 12 hour masculine day not inclusive of night. And for complete day of the month .When the number is a compound number (13-14),the first part (3-9) is feminine but the second part should be masculine. We have a masculine "3ashr" .So either it is a one digit number and so "ayam" is not correct,or it's the second number of a compound number (e.g 14in the case of this verse) and the whole 14 should refer to shahr or to yaum.Since yaum is not even mentioned,we go for 14 shahr.
Example thamanyata 3ashr yauman; 3ashrata ayam(18 days; 10 days)(day is masculine; as well asshahr)
thamani 3ashrata lailatan; 3ashr layali (18 nights; ten nights) (night is feminine) -
Can a perception of number from 13 to 19 be indicated to the listener or reader by placing a waw in between the cardinal and ordinals after the noun?
You mean as in (ر
We have a similar incident in the qur'aan with three digit numbers (1825). In Arabic in general, if this exists, it's mostly tailored along the lines of the qur'aan style.
Maybe this explains the somehow complexity of the numbering system in Arabic To allow for limitless combinations as long as the rules are respected. -
But Sister in what respect there is a similarity in these two?
Sister being teacher you know for non Arabs these digits and plurals are quite a difficult subject. Therefore I am seeking clarifications. I hope it is not taxing.
Look at it this way
300 years and increased 9
4 ashhur and .........10 -
That was how I saw and requested for some justification because
and are identical but and are not. And then it will make no sense with whereas in the case of years it makes things evident with . The calendar used in the locality of incident was solar and for Arabs 9 are added to 300 solar years which are equal to 309 lunar years.
The issue cropped up because of this opinion
One ?hawl? is one cycle which is the pregnancy period for human beings. It is equal to 10 moon cycles or 10 ashhur. The waiting period for women to ensure if there is pregnancy or not is called ?3idda? in Quran.
I went through Wakas Root project, I could not find where ?hawl? could be said to be one cycle or to have any relationship with conception and pregnancy. On the contrary it is used about not having conceived and become pregnant. And is used for a year not 10 months.
Average/mostly Pregnancy period for human beings is 266 days while 10 ashhur is equal to 295 days. Menses is absolutely the personal matter of a woman and only her husband has the right to know about it, not the society. After a husband has left his wife, the time is measured by months and days and not by menstruation cycle of the concerned lady. The prescription of cycles in case of divorce is not to wait and see the appearance of conception, but its primary objective is to provide an intervening period to the husband to review decision, and it is he who is told to keep counting the menstruation cycles of his divorced wife. Wife is advised to restrain taking a firm decision about her future course during this period.
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That was how I saw and requested for some justification because
and are identical but and are not. And then it will make no sense with whereas in the case of years it makes things evident with . The calendar used in the locality of incident was solar and for Arabs 9 are added to 300 solar years which are equal to 309 lunar years.
Because 3 is an isolated number, not part of a compound two-digit number. It's counting "100 feminine)" 9 is counting "years (feminine)".
and .
Counting a masculine noun 3-10
.....
Counting a masculine noun 13-19
....
days has the same case as for shahr .Counting feminine noun 3-10
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Counting feminine noun 13-19I was responding to your question whether we can brak-up the complex/compound number by a noun, and I gave you the example of 300 and increased 9, instead of 309 in one go. As for your explanation that this is counting lunar and solar years, I have no idea and cannot comment. It's just an explanation. Why couldn't it be 300 years and 900 years?! If they can sleep 300 years, they can sleep 1200 years ;D
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I have no idea and cannot comment. It's just an explanation. Why couldn't it be 300 years and 900 years?! If they can sleep 300 years, they can sleep 1200 years
This is because Sister We do not say that three hundred are increased by 900. Increasing figure needs to be less than the figure it is increasing.
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This is because Sister We do not say that three hundred are increased by 900. Increasing figure needs to be less than the figure it is increasing.
Maybe you're right, maybe it's just contextual. Anyway, I do not think this was your point nor the thread poster's.
Back to the topic. -
Sister, back to the topic of number
I was responding to your question whether we can brak-up the complex/compound number by a noun, and I gave you the example of 300 and increased 9, instead of 309 in one go.
The question is not for complex/compund number comprising of singles, tens, hundreds, and thousands. But only numbers ranging 13-19 since it comprises of only two digits written only by two words, one representing 10 and the other units from 1 to 9.
My question is wheter in between these two words "waw" can be placed, resulting in tearing apart of this combination by bringing in its middle the noun/the madud? Would then the segregated words automatically not become different units and not combination of 10 and other unit? Rules for 1-10 and 13-19 are also different from each other, how will they be reconciled.Uqud's/comples/compound numbers example perhaps has no relevance to it.
Would an Arab like to convey the same perception of possession to me by placing immediately after and then say ? Would he be correct?
Can these 19 upon her be represented, without creating confusion in the mind of the reader/listener, by placing a "waw" in between and ? Whatever Arabic text I have so far seen, I do not recollect that for number 13-19 there is an intervening waw. Pl guide.
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I understand your question. The example of years I gave you is even more to the point of your question, does not matter whether the number is broken by the maduud or by another word, because, as I said, even this expression of counting of years broken by a word is not used, and could be specific to the qur'aan.
As for the example we have in this verse about shahr, I would say it's not the norm either; but there's no other explanation for the "ten" to be other than the other part of the compound number "14". As I also explained, the only other explanation the scholars came up with was " ten nights", thus acknowledging the problem with 10, and proposing a solution that is not qur'aanic the qur'an mentions nights for nights, not days.
But according to the understanding of Tlepsh that the 4 and the ten are for different purposes which were both mentioned before, this verse style, I would say, is very specific and precise, avoiding too much explanation. -
But according to the understanding of Tlepsh that the 4 and the ten are for different purposes which were both mentioned before, this verse style, I would say, is very specific and precise, avoiding too much explanation.
But as I explained earlier 10 months has no relevance to the other purpose too. That is a conjecture, not a ground fact.
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But as I explained earlier 10 months has no relevance to the other purpose too. That is a conjecture, not a ground fact.
Peace Mazhar,
2.33 Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole (hawl)s; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling?.
46.15 ?.., and the bearing (carrying) of him and the weaning of him is thirty shahran,?
From the above two verses it is clear that
30 Shahran = pregnancy duration + suckling time
Suckling time is 2 complete hawls
Duration of human pregnancy is not a fixed number of days. In every document concerning the duration of pregnancy you see an average number of days not a fixed number of days. The following is an example
?Duration of human singleton pregnancy. A population-based study. (Bergsj? P, Denman DW 3rd, Hoffman HJ, Meirik O. 1990)
In cases of reliable menstrual dates, the average duration from LMP to vaginal birth was 282 days (median), 281 days (mean) and 283 days (mode), remaining constant over the years of study. One standard deviation of the mean was approximately 13 days, varying slightly with age and parity. Ten per cent of these women gave birth post term (past 294 days).?
God tells us that
Pregnancy duration = (30 shahran ? 2 hawl)
So you yourself calculate how many shahr is one hawl.(ل The primary meaning of hawl is to be changed.
(ل means the period in which certain plants attain their complete strength even if one year is not passed. It means the time required from planting a vegetable as a seed until it produces fruits.When it is related to the sun Hawl means a year in consideration of its changing, and of the revolution of the sun in its places of rising and setting. (For example the sun rises from the same point every summer solstice with respect to a fixed point on the earth)
Concerning a human (ل HAWL is the period of pregnancy, which is approximately 40 weeks, 280 days, 10 lunar months starting with the last known menstrual period (LMP). In one hawl, the female body (yatahawwal) transforms from the state of being not pregnant to the sate of being pregnant and back to the state of being not pregnant.