Early islamic inscription provides/confirms (sunni caliph) umar's year of death

Pseudo

According to tradition and other historical accounts, a Persian soldier assassin stabbed Umar in public as the caliph was leading prayers in a mosque. Zuhayr, who may have witnessed the violent crime, recorded that Umar died in "four and twenty," which means 644 A.D.

This is useful information more so interested in how they wrote, used words/meanings etc., especially numbers seems at times written backwards; small number first then larger one as in quran.

2234? 4 months and 10 (14 months)

1825 300 years and add 9 (not sure about this one)

I take it then
50 years and 1000 = 1050 years
50 years and 900 = 950 years

2914 And We had sent Noah to his nation, so he stayed in them 1000 years illa 50

Since illa is used above renders it in reverse

?so he stayed in them 1000 years no more than 50 (i.e. millennium less/illa 50)

Similar to,
7431 And We did not make the fire's owners only/no more than angels (illa mala-ikata)

To give another example it is currently 530 pm and to say that I stayed 5 minutes

530 illa 5

Hope that makes sense.

Peace

farida

Salaam

Very interesting observation.
It could help solve No 19 issue too
I don't know how to transfer pictures see this link for origional inscription

http//my.algeria.com/forums/religion-religion/24279-first-islamic-inscription-may-solve-quran-question.html

Also
http//dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/11/18/islamic-inscription.html
peace

Roshan

Peace

I do not understand what this adds. Who is to say that people wrote differently in formal writings and informal writings. Of course we know that today's Arabic does not contain such marks. We also know that the earlier versions of the Quran do not contain such marks, but that these were introduced later as Muslims moved away from Islam towards Sunnism/Shiaism aided by their newly found holy books of Bukari et al.

So not only is there no direct proof of what you say, but there would have had to be two different movements (marks --> no marks --> marks).

Although, perhaps your main point was to do with Umar rather than the marks.

However, one point I raised a long time ago was whether there were words which had different meanings without the marks and with them. Can anyone give any examples?

Roshan

Samia

This is useful information more so interested in how they wrote, used words/meanings etc., especially numbers seems at times written backwards; small number first then larger one as in quran.

2234? 4 months and 10 (14 months)

1825 300 years and add 9 (not sure about this one)

I take it then
50 years and 1000 = 1050 years
50 years and 900 = 950 years

2914 And We had sent Noah to his nation, so he stayed in them 1000 years illa 50

Since illa is used above renders it in reverse

?so he stayed in them 1000 years no more than 50 (i.e. millennium less/illa 50)

Similar to,
7431 And We did not make the fire's owners only/no more than angels (illa mala-ikata)

To give another example it is currently 530 pm and to say that I stayed 5 minutes

530 illa 5

Hope that makes sense.

Peace

This is still the Arabic as written and said today! The inscription embedded in farida's post says "sanat arba3 wa 3ishreen" which is "the year 24" (not 44 as reported in the main post), which -again- is literally "four and twenty"...the way arabs still say the numbers!!

We still say it's one o'clock "illa" 3ashra it's ten to one.
My question how did they know that this dates to 1300 years ago? Has it undergone any accepted archeological examination?

thegod

samia-This is still the Arabic as written and said today! The inscription embedded in farida's post says "sanat arba3 wa 3ishreen" which is "the year 24" (not 44 as reported in the main post), which -again- is literally "four and twenty"...the way arabs still say the numbers!!

It doesn't say "44" in the main post, it says "four and twenty," which is in terms of "after hijra". In terms of "after christ" it is 644.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

thegod

Pseudo-1825 300 years and add 9 (not sure about this one)

Yes, this does not appear to be a standard usage.

Quraan, 1825 can represent either

the conjectural nature of proposed figures.
the traditional view that 300 is the length of stay in terms of solar years, & increasing it by 9 gives the number of lunar years.

Other explanations welcome.

Given the quraanic account & the accuracy of the claim (300 solar years ~ 309 lunar years), I, as of now, go with the traditional interpretation.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

thegod

This inscription is important for several reasons

Aspersions have been cast on the veracity of the quraanic text & it has been played with under the pretext of lack of alphabet-identification (bbkt-tykh being an example). This inscription, which predates earliest hijazi manuscripts of quraan, is more proof against the acceptability of such manipulation.
It reinforces the fact that arabic had evolved pretty well by the time of the prophet.
Putting question marks over the existence of historical personalities of muhammad's time has been a favorite exercise with a section of skeptics. The attestation in favor of umar is significant.
In the name of countering bias some skeptics have favored non-arab material over arab material as the main source of arab history, irrespective of it's authenticity. The remarkable accuracy of this inscription lends further credibility to arab records.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

Pseudo

Here is the standard time line; seldom a need to lie about dates...

622 CE Hijira - Muhammad and followers flee to Medina.
Islamic calendar (AH, Anno Hegirae) begins.
624 CE Muslims successfully attack Meccan caravans at Badr.
625 Muslims are defeated by Meccans at Uhud.
630 Muslims capture Mecca. Ka'ba is cleansed, pilgrimage rites are Islamicized, tribes of Arabia vow allegiance to Muhammad
632 Death of Muhammad. Abu Bakr chosen as caliph.
632-33 Wars of ridda (apostasy) restore allegiance to Islam
633 Muslim conquests (Futuhat) begin.
633-42 Muslim armies take the Fertile Crescent (Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Mesopotamia), North African coast, parts of Persian and Byzantine Empires
c. 650 Caliph Uthman has the Qur'an written down.
656 Uthman is murdered; Ali becomes fourth caliph.

632 + 24 = 656

Perhaps that is what the person meant by 4 and 20.

Peace

thegod

There is no mention of umar (or of abu bakr's death) in that standard timelime. What are the standard dates for their deaths?

622 Heraclius launches counteroffensive vs. Persia
MUHAMMAD and ABU BAKR flee Mecca for Medina ("Hegira&quot
622-26 Campaigns of Heraclius
Avar-Persian Siege of Constantinople
627 Battle of Nineveh Destruction of Persian army
628 Fall of Ctesiphon; Overthrow of Chosroes II
Heraclius imposes peace on Persia
630 Heraclius and True Cross received in Jerusalem
Muhammad received in Mecca Unification of Arabia
632 Publication of Monenergian Doctrine
Death of Muhammad. Abu Bakr elected Caliph (632-34)
634 UMAR I elected Caliph (634-644)
636 Battle of Yarmuk Arab Conquest of Syria
637 Battle of Qadisiya Collapse of Sassanid Persian Empire
637-42 Arab Conquest of Iraq, Armenia, and Iran
638 Fall of Jerusalem to the Arabs
Publication of ECTHESIS Proclamation of Monothelete Doctrine
641 Death of Heraclius and Succession Difficulties
Surrender of Alexandria and Egypt to Arabs
Accession of CONSTANS II (641-66
642 Arab Conquest of Cyrenaica and Tripolitania
644 Assassination of Umar I. UTHMAN elected Caliph (644-656). MUAWIYA commences construction of Arab fleet
645-46 Byzantine reoccupation of Alexandria
648 Publication of TYPUS
649 Pope Martin I condemns Monothelete doctrine
Muawiya conquers Cyprus Arabic naval offensive against Byzantium
653 Arrest and Deposition of Pope Martin I
654 Arabic Sack of Rhodes
655 Battle of Attaleia ("Battle of the Masts&quot Defeat of Imperial Navy and Flight of Constans II
656 Mutiny at Fustat (Cairo) and Murder of Caliph Uthman
Election of ALI as Caliph (656-661)
Outbreak of Islamic Civil War Muawiya and Constans II sign a truce
Battle of the Camel Ali crushes Bedouin army of Kufa and arrests Aisha
657 Kharijites ("those who go out&quot secede from Shi'ite Cause
661 Murder of Ali by Kharijites

umar is believed to have died on the last day of 23 ah & buried on the first day of 24 ah.

632 + 24 = 656

Perhaps that is what the person meant by 4 and 20.

Dates are recorded in terms of after hijra & not after muhammad.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

thegod

thegod - umar is believed to have died on the last day of 23 ah & buried on the first day of 24 ah.

umar is believed to have died on the last night of 23 ah.

Then, according to arabic system, he died in 24 ah. So the date is spot-on.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen.