Intercourse: Allowed During Fasting!
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This is the command
You exactly follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you;", Read 3 31 like this
You pronounce, "If you people love Allah, then follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Or it simply goes like this
3 31
Say ?If you wish Allah?s Grace, then follow me ; Allah will be pleased with you; He will forgive your sins for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?.
Either we follow the words of Quran or we follow the point of view of some translator. Translation of "Qul" as simple "say" is not the meaning of it. Qul is imperative, second person. Someone is commanding someone to say a certain thing not to walls but to pronounce for certain group or for people. Its correct translation in 331 is
You Muhammad the Messenger pronounce for believers ,"...." -
Imagine means conjecturing a mental picture and taking it for granted without proof. Does Quran always endorse such way? And then ponder over the false views? In this way 2 187 is very clear to you. May Allah Bless.
Imagine
Definition To form in the mind a notion or idea of; to form a mental image of; to conceive; to produce by the imagination.Imagine means only that; whether it is false or true is to be determined; e.g. Einstein discovered emc^2 and relativity by imagining riding a light wave. Initially you imagined a metaphoric cover in 2187 (they are close, comforting, etc.) and falsely assumed/tied it to physical clothing, different word altogether in 2458.
Another logical view/analogy imagine a coin?IF stated tails THEN heads = FALSE
Imagine (i.e. view) ?permitted to you night of the fasting? as simply that.
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpg
100% Quran logic, no sex permitted during the fasting, may the God bless and teach.
Peace
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ImagineDefinition To form in the mind a notion or idea of; to form a mental image of; to conceive; to produce by the imagination.
Imagine means only that; whether it is false or true is to be determined. Imagine (i.e. view) ?permitted to you night of the fasting? as simply that. 100% Quran logic, no sex permitted during the fasting, may the God bless and teach.Does it not mean then, a combination of false / true is confusion? And Quran endorses 100% such idea of imagining or fancying?
But to the contrary Allah says "Why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know."e.g. Einstein discovered emc^2 and relativity by imagining riding a light wave.
Allah knows all the best ways and also the ways better than the existing ways; do you still hold on to the ways of Einstein and there are no further and easier and lovelier and nearer ways than that? Be a believer in such ways than the way of einstein.
Initially you imagined a metaphoric cover in 2187 (they are close, comforting, etc.) and falsely assumed/tied it to physical clothing, different word altogether in 2458.
Sorry! You will see it is the other way round if you care to read it again.
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Either we follow the words of Quran or we follow the point of view of some translator. Translation of "Qul" as simple "say" is not the meaning of it. Qul is imperative, second person. Someone is commanding someone to say a certain thing not to walls but to pronounce for certain group or for people.
Wherever "Qul" is pronounced, it commands the readers to stand by the verses of Quran and say to your people as your Messengers stood for Allah. To this all our Messengers will stand testimony for us. This is based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you" And also in 22 78 ...that the Messenger shall be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind!
Now please Read the ayat you have quoted
3 31
Say ?If you wish Allah?s Grace, then follow me YOU who read ]; Allah will be pleased with you; He will forgive your sins for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?.
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Wherever "Qul" is pronounced, it commands the readers to stand by the verses of Quran and say to your people as your Messengers stood for Allah. To this all our Messengers will stand testimony for us. This is based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you" And also in 22 78 ...that the Messenger shall be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind!
Now please Read the ayat you have quoted
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Strange logic. Now you are reading it to me, should I follow you to get response from Allah of my loving Him? We are reading a book. Its words mean only what they say, not what we want to presume. We have to translate the words of the Book and not assign our ideas to the book. Qul is a word which nowhere in the world means to stand by the verses of Quran.
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Peace Dr. Fazl,
Among the three things 2 are being consumed internally i.e., eating and drinking. But the third one is expending the waste which will over flow if not voided like urine and motion; and that which shall soil you if not evacuated when necessary. Reconsider now and relearn the ayat afresh. Here is how best we shall understand by the leave of Allah without the taint of hadith or the practice in vogue
Here is the very beginning of the ayat! It is permitted to be with your wives on the nights of fasting. Where is the question for this at all when the fasting begins only from the dawn and ends at dusk? This part of the ayat has been necessitated from Allah because the mischief mongers like the mullah-hadith propagandists, swearing by the prophet, threateningly enforced the falsehood, in the name of the prophet, upon the people that they could not have the relationship with their wives. With the first part of the ayat the confusion created by the hadith miscreants of all times is put to end.
Now comes the second part of the ayat relating to the day time "They are your garments and you are their garments." Garments are mostly essential only during the day time. You as husband and wife have to don each other the clothing with purity, removing and eliminating the lewdness as and when necessary, especially during the days of fasting. Such is the holiness Allah attributes to the relationship between the wife and husband as purifying and lawful. Each shall protect each other's dignity by being lawful to each other that they be free from any lewdness in the heart during the fasting period and don on each other the garment of self-esteem and dignity. Allah loves such purity at heart free from all indecencies especially during the fasting. But herein again the hadith mischief-mongers obstructed the straight path to purity, allowing lewdness to creep into the heart through abstention; and make us spend the days of fasting with pent-up emotions! This is no fasting at all for reasons obvious. Now comes Allah's dissatisfaction and contempt for such followers and the warning from Him goes thus
Allah is Aware that you were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He has turned in mercy toward you and forgiven you. So hold intercourse with them and seek the purity that which Allah hath ordained for you.
After this the rest of the parts of the ayat goes about eating and drinking. Intercourse is entirely a different matter; it is not like eating and drinking; but removal of bad emotions like voiding of urine and evacuating the bowels to remove the impurities from our body. intercourse is elimination of the bad emotions and best protection for the mind whose purity is of at most important for the completion of fasting.
Finally comes the guidance when you shall not be with your wives. This is, when you vow and determinedly begin your ihram i.e., being in remembrance of Allah alone for a day or two or three, abstain from your emotions seeking protection from Allah all the while.
but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Mosques are not the places where you have family relations; so here the mosques are your houses. Allah regards your houses to be the mosques because you are in constant remembrance of Allah's Names and no other names are entertained. At this juncture 2 114 shall be remembered "In places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated." Now the final part of the ayat Those are Limits by Allah Approach them not. Approach them not stands here solely on this ground; but you can eat and drink; thus it is not fasting here.
The end of the ayat Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may fear!
Excellent point bravo bravo bravo
Worth serious research and consideration.
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DrFazl,
Thanks for Almighty for the clarity and wisdom Allah has given to you and I am with you and start implementing 2187 immediately.
Love
Jango O0Are you suggesting to start fasting in these days.
Allah is Aware that you were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He has turned in mercy toward you and forgiven you. So hold intercourse with them and seek the purity that which Allah hath ordained for you.
Good time to seek purity!!!!!
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DrFazl,
Thanks for Almighty for the clarity and wisdom Allah has given to you and I am with you and start implementing 2187 immediately.
Love
Jango O0Brother Jango,
This is day one of Ramadan fasting for you jango, and for such of those who reach it. That is whoso gets the Guidance, the Sign of the Straight Path and whoso gains elevation in the distinguishing quality as revelation from the verses of Quran descend upon them by the leave of Allah, - are considered reaching the days of Ramadan whose count will be 30 making a month. And let the counting of the days progress as and when such revelations from the verses being sent down upon you, Guiding you more and more in the Straight Path.
2 185 The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion. And whosoever of you reaches it, let him fast the month.
The revelations from Allah will be sent down upon us at any point of time; and during the day or during the night - when with regard to an ayat in Quran a clear Guidance comes to us, changing our course distinctly away from every majority of people, it is mandatory on us to fast on that day. But if we are sick or on a journey we can postpone and observe the days when we reach normalcy and restful comfort. Allah wants to ease our fasting, dispersing the 30 days of the month over a period of 365 days; and He has not made it mandatory on us as continuous fasting. Thus fasting is made not hard at all even for a beginner.
- 185 ... and whosoever of you is sick or on a journey, number of other days. Allah desireth for you ease; He desireth not hardship for you; and that ye should complete the period of one month.
And the fast is meant to show our gratitude to Allah, exalting His Greatness for such clear and revealing Guidance in the Straight Path But what we witness is the reverence to 'Moon God of calendar ramadan' as they sight it either with naked eye or through a tubular vision using a telescope.
2 185 ... and that ye should magnify Allah for having guided you, and that peradventure ye may be thankful.
And now we know it is He, Allah that made His Sign clear to us that the calendar month of the Ramadan is a mere worthless and meaningless ritual; and that there is no holiness in the calendar month at all. So from now onwards we shall make our days holier by being sole and soulful believer, in the Revelations that shall be sent down upon us from Allah direct as wahy, as we ponder over the ayats.
7 3 Follow what has been revealed to you from Allah and do not follow falsehood besides Him, how little do you mind.
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Strange logic. Now you are reading it to me, should I follow you to get response from Allah of my loving Him? We are reading a book. Its words mean only what they say, not what we want to presume. We have to translate the words of the Book and not assign our ideas to the book. Qul is a word which nowhere in the world means to stand by the verses of Quran.
I give time before I answer this post, tomorrow. Ponder over!
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And now we know it is He, Allah that made His Sign clear to us that the calendar month of the Ramadan is a mere worthless and meaningless ritual; and that there is no holiness in the calendar month at all. So from now onwards we shall make our days holier by being sole and soulful believer, in the Revelations that shall be sent down upon us from Allah direct as wahy, as we ponder over the ayats.
It is time to go to a doctor.
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Does it not mean then, a combination of false / true is confusion? And Quran endorses 100% such idea of imagining or fancying?
But to the contrary Allah says "Why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know."There is no dispute; it's a 100% clear verse -- no sex, food, or drink during the fasting.
Excellent point bravo bravo bravo
Worth serious research and consideration.
Yes serious research and consideration, if fasting helps personality disorders likening sex to bad emotions and using the bathroom.
It is time to go to a doctor.
lol
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It is time to go to a doctor.
No! Do not commit shirk by going to doctor! Believe in Allah alone and turn to Him in repentance.
Yes serious research and consideration, if fasting helps personality disorders likening sex to bad emotions and using the bathroom.
At one's wits end they become very witty indeed!
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Strange logic. Now you are reading it to me, should I follow you to get response from Allah of my loving Him? We are reading a book. Its words mean only what they say, not what we want to presume. We have to translate the words of the Book and not assign our ideas to the book. Qul is a word which nowhere in the world means to stand by the verses of Quran.
Running short of resources and keenness of perception, the usages in the postings have become bizarre. Strange logic! The meaning of strange is unfamiliar and never heard of it before. This expression shall befit a people who follow only the ancestral tendencies with an aversion to reasoning and ascent. When the expression of strange is used there is no room in the heart for logic. If there is resolve to follow only the Truth and reject the rituals of forefathers then the logic from Allah guides; and believe there is nothing such things like strange logic.
10 39
Nay, they reject that of which they have no comprehensive knowledge, and the wisdom of it has not come to them yet; even thus did those before them reject; see then what was the end of the unjust..
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Running short of resources and keenness of perception, the usages in the postings have become bizarre. Strange logic! The meaning of strange is unfamiliar and never heard of it before. This expression shall befit a people who follow only the ancestral tendencies with an aversion to reasoning and ascent. When the expression of strange is used there is no room in the heart for logic. If there is resolve to follow only the Truth and reject the rituals of forefathers then the logic from Allah guides; and believe there is nothing such things like strange logic.
10 39
Nay, they reject that of which they have no comprehensive knowledge, and the wisdom of it has not come to them yet; even thus did those before them reject; see then what was the end of the unjust.
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Strane logic was in the context, "Now you are reading it to me, should I follow you to get response from Allah of my loving Him? We are reading a book. Its words mean only what they say, not what we want to presume. We have to translate the words of the Book and not assign our ideas to the book. Qul is a word which nowhere in the world means to stand by the verses of Quran".
What they reject is the same what is being rejected with regard to "Qul" today,You the Messenger ask them then go and bring...........
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Strange logic was in the context, "Now you are reading it to me, should I follow you to get response from Allah of my loving Him? We are reading a book. Its words mean only what they say
Just think over that for beings like us when we need contextual explanation for just two words we utter say, 'Strange logic' for better understanding, do you mean to say that the words of the Great Reading are just what they are? See hereunder the thesaurus you have used having distinctly different meanings
You the Messenger ask them then go and bring........... Can we take both the meanings as correct? If yes, then the whole meaning changes and the context changes too. This is the essence of Quran, that testifies that even if the seas turn to ink, and trees of the worlds become pens Allah's words will not be over. On the contrary like you believe, if they are not the words that fit to context in real time for each and everyone of 6 billion people contemporarily, then there is no guidance for the individual life and thus the scripture becomes void.
Next if you follow me When I say "No! Do not commit shirk by going to doctor! Believe in Allah alone and turn to Him in repentance," will you not get response from Allah of your loving Him? And will Allah not love me for saying this? Think over before you want to pen me down.
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Among the three things 2 are being consumed internally i.e., eating and drinking. But the third one is expending the waste which will over flow if not voided like urine and motion; and that which shall soil you if not evacuated when necessary. Reconsider now and relearn the ayat afresh. Here is how best we shall understand by the leave of Allah without the taint of hadith or the practice in vogue
Here is the very beginning of the ayat! It is permitted to be with your wives on the nights of fasting. Where is the question for this at all when the fasting begins only from the dawn and ends at dusk? This part of the ayat has been necessitated from Allah because the mischief mongers like the mullah-hadith propagandists, swearing by the prophet, threateningly enforced the falsehood, in the name of the prophet, upon the people that they could not have the relationship with their wives. With the first part of the ayat the confusion created by the hadith miscreants of all times is put to end.
Now comes the second part of the ayat relating to the day time "They are your garments and you are their garments." Garments are mostly essential only during the day time. You as husband and wife have to don each other the clothing with purity, removing and eliminating the lewdness as and when necessary, especially during the days of fasting. Such is the holiness Allah attributes to the relationship between the wife and husband as purifying and lawful. Each shall protect each other's dignity by being lawful to each other that they be free from any lewdness in the heart during the fasting period and don on each other the garment of self-esteem and dignity. Allah loves such purity at heart free from all indecencies especially during the fasting. But herein again the hadith mischief-mongers obstructed the straight path to purity, allowing lewdness to creep into the heart through abstention; and make us spend the days of fasting with pent-up emotions! This is no fasting at all for reasons obvious. Now comes Allah's dissatisfaction and contempt for such followers and the warning from Him goes thus
Allah is Aware that you were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He has turned in mercy toward you and forgiven you. So hold intercourse with them and seek the purity that which Allah hath ordained for you.
After this the rest of the parts of the ayat goes about eating and drinking. Intercourse is entirely a different matter; it is not like eating and drinking; but removal of bad emotions like voiding of urine and evacuating the bowels to remove the impurities from our body. intercourse is elimination of the bad emotions and best protection for the mind whose purity is of at most important for the completion of fasting.
Finally comes the guidance when you shall not be with your wives. This is, when you vow and determinedly begin your ihram i.e., being in remembrance of Allah alone for a day or two or three, abstain from your emotions seeking protection from Allah all the while.
but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Mosques are not the places where you have family relations; so here the mosques are your houses. Allah regards your houses to be the mosques because you are in constant remembrance of Allah's Names and no other names are entertained. At this juncture 2 114 shall be remembered "In places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated." Now the final part of the ayat Those are Limits by Allah Approach them not. Approach them not stands here solely on this ground; but you can eat and drink; thus it is not fasting here.
The end of the ayat Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may fear!
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Do you realize that your entire case is based on nothing? All you have presented thus far is your own opinions and interpretations. You have provided not even a single shred of historical evidence which proves your case that the Early Muslims used to have intercourse during the day in Ramadan. This is why the oppositions interpretation of 2187 holds, because they have historical documents (hadith) to argue for their interpretation (that the verse speicifies the only time during which intercourse is allowed i.e. the Night). While you have no evidence to support your own interpretations.
And dont start saying that the hadith is not allowed, because in this case the hadith is not adding any injunctions, so they are allowed. The injunction is clearly stated in the Quran (2187). Only through semantics can you make your case. This seems to be the preferred tactic of many here.
Salaam
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Do you realize that your entire case is based on nothing? All you have presented thus far is your own opinions and interpretations. You have provided not even a single shred of historical evidence which proves your case that the Early Muslims used to have intercourse during the day in Ramadan. This is why the oppositions interpretation of 2187 holds, because they have historical documents (hadith) to argue for their interpretation (that the verse speicifies the only time during which intercourse is allowed i.e. the Night). While you have no evidence to support your own interpretations.
And dont start saying that the hadith is not allowed, because in this case the hadith is not adding any injunctions, so they are allowed. The injunction is clearly stated in the Quran (2187). Only through semantics can you make your case. This seems to be the preferred tactic of many here.
Salaam
If my entire write up on 2 187 shall have to be based on the hadith, and if not it has no relevance at all. then what about Quran? How shall one have to believe the entire Quran? What and whose hadith or the historical evidence does Quran shall have to depend upon? There is nothing comparable to Quran! No historical evidence can touch it except that Allah narrates. Is Quran for thinking over and its verses are for pondering on or for disputing the Quran and its ayats with the so called historical evidence? History is 'his-story' or hearsay and nothing more to it. Your history has to be verified with the verses of Quran and not the reverse of it shall ever be practiced. It is unfortunate the hadith proponents have resorted to the reverse course; and still worse, they heavily bank their reliance on such off the course utterances.
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Salaam bro
If my entire write up on 2 187 shall have to be based on the hadith, and if not it has no relevance at all. then what about Quran? How shall one have to believe the entire Quran? What and whose hadith or the historical evidence does Quran shall have to depend upon? There is nothing comparable to Quran! No historical evidence can touch it except that Allah narrates. Is Quran for thinking over and its verses are for pondering on or for disputing the Quran and its ayats with the so called historical evidence? History is 'his-story' or hearsay and nothing more to it. Your history has to be verified with the verses of Quran and not the reverse of it shall ever be practiced. It is unfortunate the hadith proponents have resorted to the reverse course; and still worse, they heavily bank their reliance on such off the course utterances.
The injunction in 2187 is clear and it is well-established. If you challenge this, then the burden of proof is on you. So please present historical evidence that the early Muslims used to consider intercourse during the day permissible. The verse that you have provided actually makes much more sense if we read it in its conventional interpretation. Why would God specifically allow intercourse during the Night, if it was already allowed during the day anyway? The historical reason for this injunction were those Muslims who were forbidding themselves intercourse during the nights and the days, so God revealed this verse to allow them to have sexual relations during the night. You have to take verses in their proper context (this applies to the Quran as it does with everything else).
PeAcE