al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa

exodus

Allah increases those He chooses in knowledge.

Indeed.. but i meant that have you any proof for us approving you as someone "chosen" for knowledge.

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The final argument is Allah?s Surah 6149, 2850
""Say 'To Allah belongs the argument conclusive; for had He willed, He would have guided you all.'" Surah 6149
"Then if they do not answer thee, know that they are only following their caprices; and who is further astray than he who follows his caprice without guidance from Allah? Surely Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." Surah 2850

Again, all you mentioned verses above can't be a proof for admitting you as who rewarded with doubtless knowledge. You can't admit yourself as contributing exact knowledge rather than "just sharing what you understand in your readings". This is what i mentioned exactly while talking about Understanding in previous message.

Peace.

raginggaijin

Indeed.. but i meant that have you any proof for us approving you as someone "chosen" for knowledge.

I don't know if you are serious or joking.

Anyone can be knowledgable. Allah states clearly in the Quran that we - the believers - are to become scholars because we study the Book.

"It belongs not to any mortal that God should give him the Book, the Judgment, the Prophethood, then he should say to men, 'Be you servants to me apart from God.' Rather, 'Be you scholars ( rabbaniyyeena) in that you know the Book, and in that you study.' " Surah 379

Someone came to me and said 'Our qiblah is Jerusalem!' So instead of blindly believing, I turned to Allah and asked Him to explain to me what our qiblah is, and studied the Quran. I confirmed the Truth - Jerusalem is NOT our qiblah.
That is what we are called upon by Allah to do.

"They count it as a favour to thee that they have surrendered! Say 'Do not count your surrendering as a favour to me; nay, but rather God confers a favour upon you, in that He has guided you to belief, if it be that you are truthful." Surah 4917

I tell YOU to serve Allah and only Allah if you are truthful. Do not take me as a guide or leader. I never told you or anyone to follow me or serve me. Far be Allah above what you describe! He needs no helper or assistance. He is Self-Sufficient, All Mighty, All Powerful.
If He choses to guide you, He will guide. If He choses to lead you astray, you will have no helper but Him.

Where do you get the idea you have to be 'chosen' to understand the Quran?

Again, all you mentioned verses above can't be a proof for admitting you as who rewarded with doubtless knowledge. You can't admit yourself as contributing exact knowledge rather than "just sharing what you understand in your readings". This is what i mentioned exactly while talking about Understanding in previous message.

Peace.

I never said my knowledge is 'doubtless'. You put words in my mouth that I never stated. Please do not create a strawman argument.

I bring information given to me by Allah because I study His Book and I confirm the Truth. Descriptions are given in the Quran. Did you check them out?

We are called upon to study the Book, then go forth among our people and give reminder and warning.

"It is not for the believers to go forth totally; but why should not a party of every section of them go forth, to become learned in religion, and to warn their people when they return to them, that haply they may beware?" Surah 9122

You are now given information, which you are to confirm on your own. Now is the time when you either check it out or don't. My obligation is to only remind. That's it. What you do now is up to you.

"Nothing of their account falls upon those that are godfearing; but a reminding; haply they will be godfearing." Surah 669

The sin is in not confirming the Truth.

"For he confirmed it not, and did not pray," Surah 7531
"Fala saddaqa wala salla" Surah 7531

If you can, bring proof to refute what is shown. When I am given clear proof, I change to suit Allah's will, not my own. Why wouldn't I? I submit my will to Him and only Him.

Why would I need anyone but Allah to explain when He is the One who created human beings?

Why don't you discuss what is brought forth? Instead of seeking to invalidate the person bringing the information, open the Quran and check what I've stated; is it true or not? Check the Arabic revelation, translations. Do the historic accounts match the Quran? The Quran is a verification of what came before. Allah does not forget nor does He err. Surah 482, 2052

Why are you adverse to reading this information and checking it out for yourself?

Believe or believe not. I'm not responsible for you and I won't be asked what you did. )
But I can show proof from the Quran why I believe what I believe.

Can you?
If you cannot, what are you going to do to remedy it?

"Will you bid others to piety, and forget yourselves while you recite the Book? Do you not understand?" Surah 244

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace.

captainneckbeard

Salamun alaykum

How long have we been seeing this particular topic discussed and debated and still no light at the end of the proverbial tunnel ? There have been so many theories , conjectures and speculations about these supposedly holy places . If the subject matter in question wasn't so serious , I would have found it so funny and even ridiculous .

My own thought in respect of this often controversial topic is .......that as long as we continue to convince ourselves that "al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa" are two physical Mosques , our attempts at grasping the Truth will be futile . Can we let go of all our pre-conceived ideas about Islam and start from what we know about the Qur'an now ? How about starting with Ayman's translation of "al Masjid al Haram" as The Inviolable institution of Obediance or simply The Law ( my preference ) ? After all this al Masjid al Haram was so obvious , that any believers at the time of the messenger would have recognised it as they would their own children . ( Qur'an 2144 ) . As for Al Masjid al Aqsa , or the farthest or is it the highest place of sujud ? I thought that this meaning presents no problem in reaching a clear conclusion as to the real meaning .

We as human being all have to go through a learning process , from basic knowledge of the world around us as well acquiring knowledge of the creator god , and Ahmad / Muhammad no exception to this rule in order to progress to a higher understanding , 937 , 961-5 . The messenger was searching for the Truth even before his appointment as prophet and messenger , and there are many anecdotal and hearsay evidence for this , regardless of the nature of these evidences , the sheer volume of it cannot be ignored . Further clarifying evidence to the need of the messenger to go through the learning process as a normal human can be seen at 18110 and 650 . Only had the messenger undergone all the "Learning Process" as a normal man did he progress to a higher understanding of Truth through the guidance of The God by reading and studying The Qur'an that was revealed to him by The all Knowing as evidenced by 2945 , 2121 and 1736 .

So , my personal understanding of The Journey from Al Masjid al Haram to The Furthest Masjid is that of a Spiritual and intellectual Journey rather than a physical one . From the the basic knowledge and observance of the law to the highest possible human potential e.g. Self Actualization and Self Trancendence as Abraham Marslow would describe it . My view on Hajj is very similar to this view of the two so called Holy Masjid , that is I believe that Hajj is a Pilgrimage within our understanding from the Base to the Ultimate in human enlightenment . And we as believers should try to emulate The Role Models recommended to us by The Merciful God .

Peace and may The God guide us to all truth

This site is what brought me to Quran alone, and it is also the site that drove me away from it. I've tried to keep believing that the Quran is complete, but the seemingly most important aspects, such as salat, is so confusing that if you ask 3 people on this site, you'll get 4 different answers as to what it is, and how to do it. People have no idea how to do pilgrimages. The only seemingly clear parts of the Quran are the mundane laws, like how to handle orphans and inheritance.

Wakas

This site is what brought me to Quran alone, and it is also the site that drove me away from it. I've tried to keep believing that the Quran is complete, but the seemingly most important aspects, such as salat, is so confusing that if you ask 3 people on this site, you'll get 4 different answers as to what it is, and how to do it. People have no idea how to do pilgrimages. The only seemingly clear parts of the Quran are the mundane laws, like how to handle orphans and inheritance.

I once asked what is the best way to make a lasagne on a food forum and I got 5 different recipes, totally drove me away from cooking.

mmkhan

Salaam CNB,

This site is what brought me to Quran alone, and it is also the site that drove me away from it. I've tried to keep believing that the Quran is complete, but the seemingly most important aspects, such as salat, is so confusing that if you ask 3 people on this site, you'll get 4 different answers as to what it is, and how to do it. People have no idea how to do pilgrimages. The only seemingly clear parts of the Quran are the mundane laws, like how to handle orphans and inheritance.

Why you ask people? If you ask people just to get you some help, then it is OK, if you seek guidance from them then you are already wrong.

4060
4060 And your Lord said Call on Me and I will respond to you. Surely, those who are too arrogant to serve Me, they will enter Hell, humbled.

10109
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until Allah judges. And He is the best of judges.

73
73 Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!

Just follow what was given to you from your Lord, you don't need to follow others.

544
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of Allah, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what Allah has sent down, then these are the rejecters.

Please note that Allah did not say "whoever does not judge with with AlQuraan or AlKitaab" but it refers to what is sent down to you as in 73 above. Hence, you don't need follow others.

551
552
551 AlRahmaan.
552 He has taught the Quraan.

Why you want to keep yourself away from Allah, why don't you seek His help where Allah's guidance is the real guidance. Why you see others, you are not going answer for others. Seek Allah's help, do not rush, follow whatever He guides you towards and be thankful to Him for His guidance. Just a brotherly suggestion.

May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

exodus

I don't know if you are serious or joking.

Anyone can be knowledgable. Allah states clearly in the Quran that we - the believers - are to become scholars because we study the Book.

I'm really serious and curious about your attitude of contributing your "knowledge". This is the reason of why I pointed out understanding rather than plain reading here. People around the world may read same words but may understand totally different things.

I can get knowledge in the Quran on my own way as you can do on your own way despite being in opposite thoughts. Then, being in knowledge is not case here. The point is which one is wrong or right.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.