Question regarding transsexualism in the Quran

Sinem

Hey people

Forgive me for not adressing you the right way, as i'm not familiar with Islamic culture.
Also forgive me for bumping up a very, very old topic, but this is important for me.
I came upon this topic after searching questions about what Quran and Islam has to say about Transgender related topics, as i am myself transgender (altough closeted) and considering becoming muslim. Though i want to research islam more, because i'm not the person who likes to do impulsive things. I doesn't mean i will change my mind about this religion, but i do need to understand what it means to be muslim more before i can truly identify myself as muslim.
I could not find any other threads specifically on this subject (as most of them are dealing about homosexuality, but is not 100% relevant)

I would like to talk about my experiences in and visions about the trans community. And interestingly, some of the people here are more right than they themselves realise.

The so called fact that transgenders knew they were female from their birth is a big misconception which doesn't match the behind the scenes truth that only insiders of trans communities know. I've talked to many trans people as an insider, and it almost always felt as if all of them were telling lies about how they were as a kid. Sometimes you can really see when some people are 'fake' and telling themselves lies. (Of course, not all of them were fake)
Why are they telling themselves these lies? Well, there's a two reasons.

The transgender community is - despite claiming to be open and understanding - in reality very conservative and elitist. An explanation for this is that the older transgenders had to fight hard for their rights to be like they currently are, and are unable to cope with newer generations of transgender people who have new, more realistic insights in trans topics. Therefore, those older people will exclude anyone who thinks different. They obtained a monopoly on the transgender community and they tell you how you should behave. Their ideas are often based on old-fashioned gender ideas (like clothing, toys, many things that have been discussed here, but are only very shallow things). This leads to the situation that the people who have heartfelt gender dysphoric feelings will either not talk about their feelings or either pretend they're the same as the old generation. Keeping the hypocrite system intact. This is a huge problem, as it prevents gender researchers to get access to the full picture. Even though the youngest of generations seem to have a positive impact, they generally don't like to associate themselves with the community for the same reasons, and thus even enlarging misconceptions. People with realistic expectations about being a woman (or being a man) are not welcomed, because it doesn't fit the ideal picture these people are telling themselves. That's why i'm personally disgusted with these communities and this prevented me from coming out of the closet, despite taking some efforts which took me years to find the courage.
I've met with multiple communities (both in real life and the internet), and this does not seem to be a local problem.
Because i had a different opinion, i was frowned upon by the community and largely ignored until i stopped coming to the communities. I have contact with only one person from all those many i met, as i felt this was the only person who was truly honest. I mention this because most cisgender people are unaware of how the trans community really works.
Remember the following line The most transphobic people are trans people themselves.
Gender research is not up-to-date. Originally the term 'transsexual' came from the idea that transgendered people were similar to homosexuals, more specifically that they longed for 'having sex as a woman'. This does not automatically mean having sex with a man, altough originally it was assumed it did. Whilst there are defenitely lot of people who fit into this category, those are usually people who end up in fetishes and or in sex industry. (which are obviously sins), but that's probably a minority. Altough making estimates about the number of transgendered people is absolutely impossible, considering the many closeted people. My estimation is that it should be at least around 5 to 10% of the whole earths population if we include the full transgender spectrum. But that includes things like cross-dressing and intergender identities too. I don't base these estimations on facts, as it is impossible to really know what's inside someone else's heart. A lot of people don't realise what's inside their own heart because they tell themselves a lot of lies, so the percentage might be a lot higher, but also a lot lower.
It must be said that gender research is steadily progressing forward so i'm optimistic about living trough the day they finally understand the scientific side.

The widespread idea of boys playing with girls toys and girls playing with boy toys originally cames from that old era. Whilst most of you will know that preference of toys is a matter of taste, not a matter of gender. Toys, clothes, etc. are indeed shallow things, which are culturally defined, not genetically.
To be honest, i never really felt attracted to Barbies and pink stuff, and could enjoy playing cars, lego and even adventures. Whilst i certainly did secretly admire some other female things. The only thing i knew was that i wasn't supposed to be a man, but at that age i could not possibly jump to the conclusion that i was supposed to be a woman. Neither can all those young girls who claim they can. In fact, a lot of them will turn out to be normal heteronormative heterosexual men. Perhaps they'll have tendancy to cross-dress, but in generally they will live a normal life.
If you say at that age that you know something for certain, well, then you are stupid. I am disgusted by how the media is constantly bringing up that story whilst the truth about transgenders is very different.
There are many trans people who doubt a lot about what they're going trough, and think a lot about consequences. And this is in my opinion the only right way to go trough this. Even though indeed people who wait will not be 'passable', at least you can say they are sure about their decision, and they are well-informed. Well-informed people generally also tend to be more honest about these issues than others. That also explains why i haven't taken the step yet, as i feel i need a lot more information. One does need to go to a whole process of thinking about things before doing something. In the end, is passability important? It it right to hide your genetics? I don't think so. The honest way may be a million times more difficult, but it's the only right way.

These are some of my opinions and basically i want to check how muslims think about these opinions.
-If you transition for wrong reasons, like sexual desires, making money, tricking other people, being dishonest, etc. those are defenitely sins. They are always sins, no matter what your gender or orientation is. The quran does seem to suggest to refer to people who try to gain an unfair advantage by presenting a different gender. They are sinners.
-If you are totally honest about your situation towards yourself, your family, your friends and your community, God will forgive you, because you don't mean any harm and don't try to gain benefits that don't belong to you.
My opinion is that if you feel in your heart that the gender of your soul is different from your genetic gender, then it's God who directly speaks to your heart. I believe God spoke directly to my heart to guide me towards my answers. This is a very different feeling to shallow reasons like gender presentation. I feel that how the media portrays women is not like how women are in reality at all. Which is one of the reasons my feelings were so hard to recognise.
Following my heart is the same reason i developed a big interest in discovering Islam, because nobody would want to be a muslim in this era of unseen islamophobia here in Europe if it didn't come straight from the heart. I am not forced to become muslim, and nobody even tried to convince me to do it. I just feel i like i've been called by God. Despite the fact that i might not be accepted by his other followers. I do think that not being accepted is a test by god to know if what i'm doing comes really from the heart. No transgender person in a western country would even think of reverting to Islam if they think they can gain unfair advantages by it, as i'm likely to lose more than i gain, (in terms of measureable things, as of course Gods love is not measureable)I will lose a lot of family and friends and probably never be accepted by the community. Still i feel i have to do this. (after tall, one of the greatest sins is turning your back to God when he calls you)

-You do have to accept that men and women do have some differences, and thefore be willing to give up some male privileges. This is a big problem with transgender people in the west, who want to keep the rights of their birth gender. I find this way of thinking arrogant.
Men and women are equal in value, but they have different qualities. Our brains are different. And scientific finds seem to suggest that transgendered people have a brain closer to that of their gender they feel on the inside, rather than that at the outside (altough not always 100%). Indeed, purely technically speaking, it doesn't come from the heart, but from the brain. But of course when i mention heart i mean the soul, which is not measureable by science.

-I also believe that God did put science and technology on earth as a sign of his kindness towards us humans, but there are lot of false prophets among those scientists trying to gain money from it. In fact, if you think about it, western capitalist society does not gain by allowing people whose gender feelings come from the heart, but does gain by people whose feelings are shallow, as they will spend a lot more to look like they think they're supposed to look. Not all gender specialists have bad intensions though, as some seem to take their work very serious.
And yes, i am seeking the guidance of gender specialists. I can only hope they appreciate my honesty, and not turn me down because i'm not 'woman enough' for them.

Personally, my feeling is purely based on what i feel on my heart, and does not really seem to follow commonly accepted logic. So please don't ask me to explain how i fit into the traditional transgender story, because i don't. And i don't believe these clich? stories for one bit, because i've seen it from the inside how 'real' those stories really are.

I am defenitely not a scientist and i will not pretend to be one. I can only tell you what i do know, what i've read, what i experienced and what others have told me about their experiences.
I do hope science can get a breaktrough, as it would help people understand. In the meantime, the best thing i can do is ask the questions i have. I am convinced that the decision about what will happen is already made for me by God, but i don't know what it is yet and i just have to trust him.

@Aisha, i hope your kid is doing fine, these many years later. I do however really hope she really thought this trough (she should be 16 or 17 by now?). Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish what your heart (soul) feels over what your body or brain feels. Consumerism is however not typically female, so please keep your kid away from the idea that all girls should live a glamourous lifestyle. If you still feel her feelings are genuine, then support her all the way you can.

I again apologise for my very western way of writing, and if i have any misconceptions, please feel welcome to correct me.

sarah2505

Also forgive me for bumping up a very, very old topic, but this is important for me.
I came upon this topic after searching questions about what Quran and Islam has to say about Transgender related topics, as i am myself transgender (altough closeted) and considering becoming muslim. Though i want to research islam more, because i'm not the person who likes to do impulsive things. I doesn't mean i will change my mind about this religion, but i do need to understand what it means to be muslim more before i can truly identify myself as muslim.
I could not find any other threads specifically on this subject (as most of them are dealing about homosexuality, but is not 100% relevant)

I would like to talk about my experiences in and visions about the trans community.

I have responded to this topic several years ago, and my understanding of this topic has evolved, and I plan to respond to the points you are making. As a first step though, I think you should probably talk to those who are both muslim AND transgender, and I'd like link you to these two articles. You are entirely right in thinking that there will be muslims who are transphobic, and trans people who will not understand your views on Islam and on being a muslim.

http//www.mpvusa.org/sexuality-diversity/
http//the-toast.net/2014/07/21/trans-muslim/

sarah2505

And interestingly, some of the people here are more right than they themselves realise.

The so called fact that transgenders knew they were female from their birth is a big misconception which doesn't match the behind the scenes truth that only insiders of trans communities know. I've talked to many trans people as an insider, and it almost always felt as if all of them were telling lies about how they were as a kid. Sometimes you can really see when some people are 'fake' and telling themselves lies. (Of course, not all of them were fake)
Why are they telling themselves these lies? Well, there's a two reasons.

The transgender community is - despite claiming to be open and understanding - in reality very conservative and elitist. An explanation for this is that the older transgenders had to fight hard for their rights to be like they currently are, and are unable to cope with newer generations of transgender people who have new, more realistic insights in trans topics. Therefore, those older people will exclude anyone who thinks different. They obtained a monopoly on the transgender community and they tell you how you should behave. Their ideas are often based on old-fashioned gender ideas (like clothing, toys, many things that have been discussed here, but are only very shallow things). This leads to the situation that the people who have heartfelt gender dysphoric feelings will either not talk about their feelings or either pretend they're the same as the old generation. Keeping the hypocrite system intact. This is a huge problem, as it prevents gender researchers to get access to the full picture. Even though the youngest of generations seem to have a positive impact, they generally don't like to associate themselves with the community for the same reasons, and thus even enlarging misconceptions. People with realistic expectations about being a woman (or being a man) are not welcomed, because it doesn't fit the ideal picture these people are telling themselves. That's why i'm personally disgusted with these communities and this prevented me from coming out of the closet, despite taking some efforts which took me years to find the courage.
I've met with multiple communities (both in real life and the internet), and this does not seem to be a local problem.
Because i had a different opinion, i was frowned upon by the community and largely ignored until i stopped coming to the communities. I have contact with only one person from all those many i met, as i felt this was the only person who was truly honest. I mention this because most cisgender people are unaware of how the trans community really works.
Remember the following line The most transphobic people are trans people themselves.
Gender research is not up-to-date.

You are entirely right about this. Practically speaking, if you have made a particular aspect of your identity, in this case, being transgender, the defining aspect, and have for your whole life acted as an activist, it's unlikely you will welcome anyone who makes you question that. In this case, that would mean younger transgender people with more realistic expectations concerning the transition, who the older people can't dismiss as being transphobic.

sarah2505

To be honest, i never really felt attracted to Barbies and pink stuff, and could enjoy playing cars, lego and even adventures. Whilst i certainly did secretly admire some other female things. The only thing i knew was that i wasn't supposed to be a man, but at that age i could not possibly jump to the conclusion that i was supposed to be a woman. Neither can all those young girls who claim they can. In fact, a lot of them will turn out to be normal heteronormative heterosexual men. Perhaps they'll have tendancy to cross-dress, but in generally they will live a normal life.
If you say at that age that you know something for certain, well, then you are stupid. I am disgusted by how the media is constantly bringing up that story whilst the truth about transgenders is very different.

My opinion is that if you feel in your heart that the gender of your soul is different from your genetic gender, then it's God who directly speaks to your heart. I believe God spoke directly to my heart to guide me towards my answers. This is a very different feeling to shallow reasons like gender presentation.

Following my heart is the same reason i developed a big interest in discovering Islam, because nobody would want to be a muslim in this era of unseen islamophobia here in Europe if it didn't come straight from the heart. I am not forced to become muslim, and nobody even tried to convince me to do it. I just feel i like i've been called by God. Despite the fact that i might not be accepted by his other followers. I do think that not being accepted is a test by god to know if what i'm doing comes really from the heart. No transgender person in a western country would even think of reverting to Islam if they think they can gain unfair advantages by it, as i'm likely to lose more than i gain, (in terms of measureable things, as of course Gods love is not measureable)I will lose a lot of family and friends and probably never be accepted by the community. Still i feel i have to do this. (after tall, one of the greatest sins is turning your back to God when he calls you)

-You do have to accept that men and women do have some differences, and thefore be willing to give up some male privileges. This is a big problem with transgender people in the west, who want to keep the rights of their birth gender. I find this way of thinking arrogant.

And yes, i am seeking the guidance of gender specialists. I can only hope they appreciate my honesty, and not turn me down because i'm not 'woman enough' for them.

Personally, my feeling is purely based on what i feel on my heart, and does not really seem to follow commonly accepted logic. So please don't ask me to explain how i fit into the traditional transgender story, because i don't. And i don't believe these clich? stories for one bit, because i've seen it from the inside how 'real' those stories really are.

I again apologise for my very western way of writing, and if i have any misconceptions, please feel welcome to correct me.

response to bolded statements in the next post.

sarah2505

A little background about me. I am a cis-gendered woman so this isn?t something I have experienced. I have, like you, enjoyed playing with toy cars, Lego, video games and have never been interested in dolls as a child. As an adult almost all of my interests would be described as masculine (computer programming, engineering, video games, DIY) and I have never been interested in makeup. I have heard on multiple occasions from different people that I do not act in a feminine way at all.
However, and this is an important distinction I have noticed between myself and a friend I have talked to in detail about gender dysphoria (he?s a trans man) is the level of comfort in one?s own skin. I feel comfortable in my own body, how it looks, and I like dressing up in a feminine manner for special occasions. He, on the other hand, has always had an antagonistic relationship to his body, from a very young age. And exactly as you said in your post, his feelings changed from his childhood to his teenage years and will probably fluctuate even from then to early adulthood. This is why I think that irreversible measures shouldn?t be taken unless the person?s an adult and has had a persistent desire to transition, one that has been consistent for at least a few years.
I think this discomfort in one?s own body deserves attention as a sign that something is wrong, but I do not know if it necessarily means that things will improve post-transition, but if there is one thing I am sure of, is that the current situation seems bad enough that one must do so.
Might I ask what you mean by God directly speaking to your heart concerning the gender of your soul compared to your genetic gender? I consider myself to be culturally Muslim but my beliefs are probably best described as agnostic deism. I do not think my understanding of Islam and agnostic deism to be mutually exclusive or even contradictory, and I do not believe that a just God would want you to experience social isolation or pain. I do not think it?s wise for you to lose family and friends on account of becoming Muslim publicly. You should see Islam as a guide to live a fulfilling life while remaining true to yourself, and genuine in your interactions with others. There is no monastic sect in Islam for this reason, among others. I don?t think there is anything wrong with converts choosing to hide their Muslim identity from family to maintain the peace, especially so if it?s temporary. People take time to come to terms with change, and I think it helps to gradually bridge a gap.
I am not saying that you should live a lie with your close friends and family, but to actively make genuine human connections based on who you really are, and not on what image you portray, or any specific part of your identity. It?s better, in my experience, to have a few people who you are close to and have an authentic relationship with, than to have many acquaintances.
I hope you find the community and friends you are looking for, and feel free to PM me.
Peace,
Sarah

Sinem

Thanks a lot for your very fast reactions

What i mean with directly speaking? Hm, hard to explain. It's having a feeling and recognising it's right. I can't logically explain this.
Every trans person will tell you 'they just know'. Well, i know nobody will take that as an explanation, because many who claim this change their mind. I'm however not a person to jump on the first thing that comes to my head.
There are a zillion of reasons why i could want to be a woman and/or a muslim. But none of them are 'the' reason. I first identified gender dysphoric feelings when i was 18 (i'm 29 currently) - which is an age i hear a lot when talking to people who are truly honest - and if i count back my memories, i can defenitely identify some earlier stuff, but absolutely not like the stories you read in the media. I suppose the fact that i was a bit of a loner explains why recognising the feeling became so much later. I doubted a lot because i think the way society expects women to be is not how i recognise feeling as a woman.
Lot of religious people will also tell you they just know it's right to believe what they believe. I just think that if you see the right path for you, your soul will recognise it as the right one. I feel as if God called me. I don't know if i make sense, but that's really how i feel.

I never opened my eyes before to the possiblity of being muslim. Like many other people here in Europe, i've been conditioned to hate muslims (altough it never worked because i honestly don't see anything bad about them) I've been conditioned to think that the way certain countries or sects treat men, women or trans people equals what Islam itself thinks about it. I already figured out that this is not true, and i've been reading a lot of stuff lately. But it wouldn't hurt to hear someone specifically telling me their opinion. Not because i can't decide for myself, but because i honestly want both sides to learn each others point of view. I'm not just here for selfish reasons, but to share my thoughts.

No i'm not planning on ditching anyone from my life. I was using it as an example that i'm not choosing this path because it's 'convenient'. Lot of trans people think being a woman is convenient and has only benefits.
But i'm not planning to just leave everything behind. In fact i even have a girlfriend, but i am honest about her about my gender confusion, and she reacts understanding, which is positive. I'm not really sure if being with a girl is right, because to be honest, the idea of being with a man has scared me for a long time, but i talk regularly with her about it and i suppose we'll figure it out, as long as we stay honest.

Thanks for the links

Yosemite

peace Aisha,

Sorry to be a stickler an all, but you never answered my questions

what is it that they test for when the child is dead to confirm this condition? and how proven is this test?
and what do they think happens during pregnancy that you alluded to previously?

You keep saying it is biological, and I would like to know what exactly.

if this is any help i found this
https//www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

Im wondering what the Quranic perspective on transsexualism is. Is it allowed to do a sex change?

I am a muslim and a mother to a transsexual child, a girl born into a boys body.

May Allah reward you all for spreading your knowledge.

Salaam

how old is the kid

what i'm seeing in the USA is that many people like to play dress up dolls with their sons because it's progressive to do so

Bender

Hey people
but i do need to understand what it means to be muslim more before i can truly identify myself as muslim.

Salaam Sinem,

Welcome to the forum handshake
Thank you for the interesting read.

According to the quran and to my interpretation of it, you have nothing to fear if you follow what is said in the 2 verses below, and I kinda of agree with those 2 verses

238
239

Please check for your self the translations/interpretations you like.

Salaam,
Bender

Breezy

Aisha look up bpa and its effects, how old is he? Is his index finger loger than his ring finger?

spodacus

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

You cannot change your gender. It is in your genes.

4118 God has cursed him (i.e. "Satan" and he had said, "I will take from Your servants a sizeable portion."

4119 "I will misguide them and entice them, and I will command them, so that they will mark the ears of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make change to God's creation." Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than God, then he has indeed lost a great loss.

clashncruz

Assalamu Alaykum all,

What an interesting topic, and I am glad you have re touched upon this issue Sinem.

While I disagree with giving children drugs to inhibit natural developmental processes as was discussed in this thread a number of years back, I respect your good intentions Aisha; it would be great to hear an update by the way

Sinem, you should follow what God has guided you to. I am also a Westerner, born and bred by Atheists, but listening to the Qur'an was all I needed to convince me of God's existence. Don't feel worried about the "muslim" community; your relationship with God is personal, that is the whole idea with Islam. Many Muslims will try to tell you, Islam is about community, the Ummah, etc. While this is true to an extent, Islam actually just means "peaceful submission to God".

In my opinion, part of that "peaceful submission" is accepting who we are good, bad, and ugly. I do not like everything about myself, trust me; we all have things we need to make better. Always remember, "God does not burden a soul with more than it can bear"; this verse always helps me through my challenges. Consider it a blessing from The God that considers you strong enough for such a difficult social/physical/psychological challenge.

I do not understand much about gender issues from a Gender Studies perspective, but I can confirm what others have said on this forum. BPA and Soy Products inhibit the uptake of testosterone in males and has caused a massive population of young boys to become effeminate. Just search this in the many scientific journals and you will find it.

This does not mean I am against homosexuals or trans people, in fact being from California, I know many of these individuals personally, and count some among my friends; I am simply trying to explain some of the environmental contamination that could be fueling this issue.

As far as I understand in the Qur'an God created two sexes, male and female; I understand this to be a biological and anatomical explanation. Indeed, we consider physically-born hermaphrodites as anomalies. Gender is a much more difficult issue because of, as you mentioned, all the gender stereotypes of each culture. For example, when Muslims first arrived in Spain (Al-Andalus) 700 A.D., they had cut, short hair, like modern European men; this, while the European men had long flowing hair, similar to women today. Indeed, these minute and, as you said "shallow", attributions to gender are less discussed in the Qur'an, and it makes sense considering that many are culturally and time-period based.

Follow your heart, God will not lead you astray.

Now, to quote from the Qur'an

921 By the Night as it conceals (the light);
922 By the Day as it appears in glory;
923 By (the mystery of) the creation of male and female;-
924 Verily, (the ends) ye strive for are diverse.
925 So he who gives (in charity) and fears (Allah),
926 And (in all sincerity) testifies to the best,-
927 We will indeed make smooth for him the path to Bliss.
928 But he who is a greedy miser and thinks himself self-sufficient,
929 And gives the lie to the best,-
9210 We will indeed make smooth for him the path to Misery;
9211 Nor will his wealth profit him when he falls headlong (into the Pit).
9212 Verily We take upon Ourselves to guide,
9213 And verily unto Us (belong) the End and the Beginning.
9214 Therefore do I warn you of a Fire blazing fiercely;
9215 None shall reach it but those most unfortunate ones
9216 Who give the lie to Truth and turn their backs.
9217 But those most devoted to Allah shall be removed far from it,-
9218 Those who spend their wealth for increase in self-purification,
9219 And have in their minds no favour from anyone for which a reward is expected in return,
9220 But only the desire to seek for the Countenance of their Lord Most High;
9221 And soon will they attain (complete) satisfaction.

Salaam,

Clash

NielsJacob

Peace Sinem and all

Thanks for bringing your view and this tread in to the daylight.

I just read all and were stunned on how many people have tendencies to press their own view over the head of others.
Its like many fell that debate is to be against and point out where the other person are wrong.
Some even quote the Quran to like hit someone in the head and claim that they should be disbelivers if they dont agree with their view.
i was just wandering Why all that hate and ignorence. When God tells you to do good deeds.
1031 By time.
1032 Man is indeed in loss.
1033 Except those who believe, and do good works, and support one another with the truth, and support one another with perseverance.

I admire persons like you and Aisha who have the guts to share their controversial storys.
I like the view you bring forth that the life is a test. But you doesn?t necessarily all the time need to be "not accepted" for doing good in that test. Please let somebody sometime accept/respect you.
If God created you and also led you too him. Then I think you have nothing too fear about (except judgementday )
Cause God only give the faith to the persons he want. Only the one who should go to heaven.(portentially)
1099 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?

And you need to be a believer if you should have chance of going to heaven
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.

But what I most of all wanted to high lite was the lack of relevant quotes in this matter (transsexual)
Many claiming that there are nothing about it in Quran.

But this verse come to my mind5149 And of everything We created a pair, perhaps you may remember.

But what in the first look like that everything have to be either male or female aint that certian.

Because when we look on how sex are described (in plants) we see

2053 The One who made for you the earth habitable and He made ways for you in it, and He brought down water from the sky, so We brought out with it pairs of vegetation of all types.
But vegetation comes not just like strict male or female. There are all kinds of variations. And they even choose their gender due to their life situation. Or have more than one gender.

But still the definition is that they are in pair.(Quran)
https//books.google.com.gh/books?id=JrToCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=numbers+of+genders+in+plants&source=bl&ots=FCdRu7NIHh&sig=egI3BZTU-XHmvL6IKZ3NPGCkvQU&hl=da&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipmrKGxofLAhVLsxQKHVsXC-UQ6AEILDAC#v=onepage&q=numbers%20of%20genders%20in%20plants&f=false
(Hmm that was a long link)
But still the definition is that they are in pair.(Quran)

So my understanding is like If its allowed in the nature (plants dont have a free will, and therefore they only act like God created or programmed them); then why shouldn't it be for human also!

But.. My understanding is only my own interpreation. And I have to rely on others translation.. So please take it only for that and no more.
May God bless you and lead you the right way..

fye

question
was mary a transexual or did the dust that impreganated her come from outside of her?

she was always in the house and brought food by angels but isn't it common for women at her time to not leave their homes until they were married?
and a man appeared before her in all respects (which i see as a nude man yet it was an angel)
not ot sound like a complete perve but was she masturbating when she became pregenant i don't see it in any other biological way that she could recieve seed if the seed did not have fluid to travel with?

can you post some graphs and picture charts of trans-sexual body formations? nothing to "graphic" just a chart showing where everything is at. it will be easier with some science to understand rules applying to these people which i heard are individually not the same in formation.

huruf

Peace Sinem and all

Thanks for bringing your view and this tread in to the daylight.

I just read all and were stunned on how many people have tendencies to press their own view over the head of others.
Its like many fell that debate is to be against and point out where the other person are wrong.
Some even quote the Quran to like hit someone in the head and claim that they should be disbelivers if they dont agree with their view.
i was just wandering Why all that hate and ignorence. When God tells you to do good deeds.
1031 By time.
1032 Man is indeed in loss.
1033 Except those who believe, and do good works, and support one another with the truth, and support one another with perseverance.

I admire persons like you and Aisha who have the guts to share their controversial storys.
I like the view you bring forth that the life is a test. But you doesn?t necessarily all the time need to be "not accepted" for doing good in that test. Please let somebody sometime accept/respect you. ) )
If God created you and also led you too him. Then I think you have nothing too fear about (except judgementday ))
Cause God only give the faith to the persons he want. Only the one who should go to heaven.(portentially)
1099 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?