*Why 33:40 cannot mean muhammad was 'The Last Prophet/Messenger' *
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Peace
Can someone please help explain what seems like a contradiction between 3340 and 3353 ? If the usual translations and interpretations of 3340 which claimed that "Muhammad" was the 'Last' prophet/messenger , then why would God even bother with this ?
" O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah " ( 3353 ) .
Why would God bother to codify this Rules of Etiquette for Believers knowing full well that there is never going to be another prophet or messenger after Muhammad ? ( If we accept that 3340 means that "Khatama" is last/final ) . Either all the translations are wrong or my understanding that is faulty . So please , anyone , can you help ?
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace all,
Muhammed is the final Israelite prophet sent to the Israelites who can't read the Book. So Judaism and Christianity are sects within the Sons of Israel. The idea that Mohammed was sent to the Ishmaelites is a gross myth and a teaching simply not found in the Quran.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace
Peace all,
Muhammed is the final Israelite prophet sent to the Israelites who can't read the Book. So Judaism and Christianity are sects within the Sons of Israel. The idea that Mohammed was sent to the Ishmaelites is a gross myth and a teaching simply not found in the Quran.
Peace,
Rami
Thank you Rami , could you please provide evidence from The Qur'an regarding the above ?
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace
Thank you Rami , could you please provide evidence from The Qur'an regarding the above ?
Peace
almarh0m
Peace,
It is my own humble conclusion which tries to resolve the dilemma on why God chose to send the final prophet among the Arabs. The idea that Mohammed is an Israelite cannot be proven or disproven as some of the Israelites were 'ummiyoon'. But after reading all the reference of the Israelites, it seems Mohammed's people are a separate group. But the idea of the Ishmaelites is still a teaching not found in the Quran. Note that prophets always arise where the Jews are speaking their common tongue, and during Mohammed's time, coincedentally, the Jews were living in Arabia speaking Arabic as their common tongue.
Peace,
Rami
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From times known to people, the plight and suffering of humans in the hands of human has been the main source and cause of disharmony, disrupted peace, and denied justice and truth ( one of the meanings of Zulm ), and hence an unpleasant and a painful living experience for millions of God's creations.
The effort to bring back harmony and justice and infuse it into the human fabric of system has been done time and again and time is a wittness to it ( ). There have been warners, philosphers, thinkers in every nation and groups and they continue to come. Some of these warners were given the title of Anbia, and they were endowed with a more organised thought process than many others and were given knowledge and intuition ( wahy ), with a complete message from the Creator with the help of God's forces (Malaika) and his laws, which are running the system of this universe.
These warners always presented the same message of justice and peace ( Peace in Arabic is Islam ). They invited people to become follower of peace only ( in Arabic to become Muslim or possibly other things in other languages) and bravely raised their voices in front of tyrants who are always causing disruption to the peaceful, or so to say Isamic existence of the human race.
The different Abrahamic religions, as they are called and known today, were given different names , perhaps by humans, to identify different groups, in times goneby, (used in Qur'Aan also to just subsequently identify them as specific groups) althogh God never meant to create religious groups. He only invites all humans to become follower of " Peace" which in Arabic is translated as Islam, and with some other word for peace in other languages. The main theme of this system is to agree with the Creator as being the nucleus, and to stop considering others as nuclei, which would divide humanity into different opposing forces causing disharmony and disruption to the peaceful existence of the system.
This submission to our Creator is meant to create this balance, and to make it easier, we have received the same message in different times.
. The message thus has to be the same at the times of Quraish and to any one before their time and will be same till the end of time for all humanity.This message was known as Tourah ( tawrah means law ) and was also known as Injeel ( Injeel comes from glad tidings) and later put again completely and is known as Qur'Aan (where Qur and Aan separated as two words with a Gezm would mean " One I established ", if two words are looked up separately in Lanes). Unfortunately, none of the revealations were preserved in the original words except the last message " One I establhed " = Qur Aan. God does not send his message through people based on family lineage, but he choses whom so ever he wants to, since the important thing to God and to the message bearer has only been the message and nothing else. The messangers would absolutely add nothing to the message and will not take away anything either. We thus have to fine comb the message Book again, as all subsequent books, including Gospels, current Tourah and renditions of Qur' Aan (Tafaseer) are human attempts to find the truth, and bring back peace=Islam again.
If we can do it with the right understanding of the only preserved script, we will find the path=Deen, otherwise we will continue to wander in discord. The reason for so much discord is loss of other original script with subsequent writings by humans, and in case of Qur'Aan, rapid evolution of the spoken language in which it was revealed, which would change the meanings it might have conveyed then. Partly this could have been an innocent error and partly it could have been intentional, as this would be the easiest way to create more than one nucleus, to satisfy individuals or groups power lust.
We see attempts by various individuals and groups, even on this forum, and other, where all tools to clarify the lexical understanding of the script is being done. This need to be done as a team, without preconceived notions and without biases. Once we have it right to the letter, it will guide us to the right direction and we can ponder on it the way God wants us to ponder on it , as without pondering on it, we cannot move forward and will continue to ponder on irrelevant issues and keep arguing, leaving behind the message. Only then we can then have a peacful path through this life.
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Peace
From times known to people, the plight and suffering of humans in the hands of human has been the main source and cause of disharmony, disrupted peace, and denied justice and truth ( one of the meanings of Zulm ), and hence an unpleasant and a painful living experience for millions of God's creations.
The effort to bring back harmony and justice and infuse it into the human fabric of system has been done time and again and time is a wittness to it ( ). There have been warners, philosphers, thinkers in every nation and groups and they continue to come. Some of these warners were given the title of Anbia, and they were endowed with a more organised thought process than many others and were given knowledge and intuition ( wahy ), with a complete message from the Creator with the help of God's forces (Malaika) and his laws, which are running the system of this universe.
These warners always presented the same message of justice and peace ( Peace in Arabic is Islam ). They invited people to become follower of peace only ( in Arabic to become Muslim or possibly other things in other languages) and bravely raised their voices in front of tyrants who are always causing disruption to the peaceful, or so to say Isamic existence of the human race.
The different Abrahamic religions, as they are called and known today, were given different names , perhaps by humans, to identify different groups, in times goneby, (used in Qur'Aan also to just subsequently identify them as specific groups) althogh God never meant to create religious groups. He only invites all humans to become follower of " Peace" which in Arabic is translated as Islam, and with some other word for peace in other languages. The main theme of this system is to agree with the Creator as being the nucleus, and to stop considering others as nuclei, which would divide humanity into different opposing forces causing disharmony and disruption to the peaceful existence of the system.
This submission to our Creator is meant to create this balance, and to make it easier, we have received the same message in different times.
. The message thus has to be the same at the times of Quraish and to any one before their time and will be same till the end of time for all humanity.This message was known as Tourah ( tawrah means law ) and was also known as Injeel ( Injeel comes from glad tidings) and later put again completely and is known as Qur'Aan (where Qur and Aan separated as two words with a Gezm would mean " One I established ", if two words are looked up separately in Lanes). Unfortunately, none of the revealations were preserved in the original words except the last message " One I establhed " = Qur Aan. God does not send his message through people based on family lineage, but he choses whom so ever he wants to, since the important thing to God and to the message bearer has only been the message and nothing else. The messangers would absolutely add nothing to the message and will not take away anything either. We thus have to fine comb the message Book again, as all subsequent books, including Gospels, current Tourah and renditions of Qur' Aan (Tafaseer) are human attempts to find the truth, and bring back peace=Islam again.
If we can do it with the right understanding of the only preserved script, we will find the path=Deen, otherwise we will continue to wander in discord. The reason for so much discord is loss of other original script with subsequent writings by humans, and in case of Qur'Aan, rapid evolution of the spoken language in which it was revealed, which would change the meanings it might have conveyed then. Partly this could have been an innocent error and partly it could have been intentional, as this would be the easiest way to create more than one nucleus, to satisfy individuals or groups power lust.
We see attempts by various individuals and groups, even on this forum, and other, where all tools to clarify the lexical understanding of the script is being done. This need to be done as a team, without preconceived notions and without biases. Once we have it right to the letter, it will guide us to the right direction and we can ponder on it the way God wants us to ponder on it , as without pondering on it, we cannot move forward and will continue to ponder on irrelevant issues and keep arguing, leaving behind the message. Only then we can then have a peacful path through this life.
Thank you for your effort , but what I was asking for is a 'reasonable explanation' as to why God bother to tell us about the Rules of Etiquette in 3353 , If according to all "Translations of 3340" Muhammad was the last prophet/messenger " . We alll know for certain that God is infallible , so either all the translations of 3340 are wrong (erroneous ) or the scholars of Qur'an from the past all deliberately mistranslated it . I wish those learned people in the forum would help clarify this for all of us who is learning the Qur'an .
Peace
almarh0m
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salaam
since we do believe that the Book will be protected and and used until the end of the world, and we accept the order to deliver the message there will be no reason to be bothered on all verses,God knows everything, be sure that all the person who deliver the message will worry with their wife or wives then God sent down 3353 to make them save from relatives weakness,so this verse are for who ever take the task as the human created for. hope this first reply will temporary enough,long and complete argument will be posted soon.
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Peace Blindnomore
salaam
since we do believe that the Book will be protected and and used until the end of the world, and we accept the order to deliver the message there will be no reason to be bothered on all verses,God knows everything, be sure that all the person who deliver the message will worry with their wife or wives then God sent down 3353 to make them save from relatives weakness,so this verse are for who ever take the task as the human created for. hope this first reply will temporary enough,long and complete argument will be posted soon.
If I understood your post correctly , you do not seem to subscibe to the belief that 3340 means what it was mostly translated to mean i.e. Muhammad was the last prophet and messenger ? We know that god's message is the same from the beginning to the end and the messengers are not really important , not to the extend that The Believers should put him ( them ) on a pedestal and and placed him alongside Allah Himself .
Only by translating 3340 correctly can we make sense out of 3353 and any apparent contradiction removed from it , this proves once again that there is no contradiction in the Qur'an ( any misconception is a shortcomings on our part ) . This helped clarifies other verses in the same chapter which I previously questioned in my own mind . So thank you for your input and may Allah increases our knowledge and wisdom .
Peace
almarh0m
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Hello all,
3340 Mohammed is (or was?) not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. (why did not God/scribes/authorised persons simply say-mohd is the last prophet to be born..No word in arabic for that or what?)472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him....
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves.
If we pay close attention to 3144, it may mean that Muhammed is only a messenger...3340 the word 'seal' might be a wrong word used as a translation. (bighelp needed here, one malaysian bro called it a 'ring' The prophet refered to in 3353 might not have been Muhammed at all.
peace.......
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Peace Rajah
Hello all,
3340 Mohammed is (or was?) not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. (why did not God/scribes/authorised persons simply say-mohd is the last prophet to be born..No word in arabic for that or what?)472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him....
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves.
If we pay close attention to 3144, it may mean that Muhammed is only a messenger...3340 the word 'seal' might be a wrong word used as a translation. (bighelp needed here, one malaysian bro called it a 'ring' The prophet refered to in 3353 might not have been Muhammed at all.
peace.......
All that is fine Rajah , the problem is ...." If we pay close attention to 3144, it may mean that Muhammed is only a messenger...3340 the word 'seal' might be a wrong word used as a translation. (bighelp needed here, one malaysian bro called it a 'ring' The prophet refered to in 3353 might not have been Muhammed at all " , does the word 'Khatam' means last or 'seal' means final ? And what about 3356 , does word prophet means messenger there , and which prophet did this ayat referred to ?
At this stage I am satisfied that , God continues to send prophets and messengers with the same message as The Qur'an , The Tawrat , The Injeel and the Message given to Abraham and Noah and even Adam before them . God's words always perfect , complete and protected and there is no change in The Message , so therefore no change in the law ( The Message in different languages such as Translation and Transliterarations of The Qur'an ) . perhaps 6114-115 clarify this ?
Peace
almarh0m
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Hello all,
3340 Mohammed is (or was?) not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. (why did not God/scribes/authorised persons simply say-mohd is the last prophet to be born..No word in arabic for that or what?)472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him....
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves.
If we pay close attention to 3144, it may mean that Muhammed is only a messenger...3340 the word 'seal' might be a wrong word used as a translation. (bighelp needed here, one malaysian bro called it a 'ring' The prophet refered to in 3353 might not have been Muhammed at all.
peace.......
Mohammed is only a messenger but the Last prophet or human to receieve inspiration. He can't be the last messeneger as Angels are being sent all the time eg. angels of death.
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At this stage I am satisfied that , God continues to send prophets and messengers with the same message as The Qur'an , The Tawrat , The Injeel and the Message given to Abraham and Noah and even Adam before them . God's words always perfect , complete and protected and there is no change in The Message , so therefore no change in the law ( The Message in different languages such as Translation and Transliterarations of The Qur'an ) . perhaps 6114-115 clarify this ?
Where is the Tawrat and Injeel and the Message given to Abraham?
What is your stance towards today's Torah?
How many Books were sent to Man?
What is the relationship of the Book of Moses with the Tawrat and Injeel?Questions to ponder upon.
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Peace Rami
Where is the Tawrat and Injeel and the Message given to Abraham?
What is your stance towards today's Torah?
How many Books were sent to Man?
What is the relationship of the Book of Moses with the Tawrat and Injeel?Questions to ponder upon.
Do you really believe that Abraham wasn't given a Message by god , and Noah and even Adam ? Please read my post properly . I never said that The Tawrat and The Injeel were given to Abraham at all , what I said was that , The Message that god sends to whoever the prophets/messengers will be the same as The Qur'an , The Injeel , The Tawrat , and The Message given to Abraham , Noah and Adam . God never change His Law and His Message , in other word , The Message is always the same .
I don't believe there are any Torah or Injeel today , we may find some remnants of the Truth from both scriptures in The OT and NT but they are not "The Torah" nor is 'The Bible = "The Injeel" . Finding truths in them just proofs that God's Truth cannot be concealed .
The Relationship between The Injeel and The Tawrat ? The Injeel confirmed The Torah , the same as The Qur'an confirms all previous scriptures revealed by The God to various prophets and messengers .
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace Rami
Do you really believe that Abraham wasn't given a Message by god , and Noah and even Adam ? Please read my post properly . I never said that The Tawrat and The Injeel were given to Abraham at all , what I said was that , The Message that god sends to whoever the prophets/messengers will be the same as The Qur'an , The Injeel , The Tawrat , and The Message given to Abraham , Noah and Adam . God never change His Law and His Message , in other word , The Message is always the same .
I don't believe there are any Torah or Injeel today , we may find some remnants of the Truth from both scriptures in The OT and NT but they are not "The Torah" nor is 'The Bible = "The Injeel" . Finding truths in them just proofs that God's Truth cannot be concealed .
The Relationship between The Injeel and The Tawrat ? The Injeel confirmed The Torah , the same as The Qur'an confirms all previous scriptures revealed by The God to various prophets and messengers .
Peace
almarh0m
That what I think too.
Peace.
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Peace Rajah
Peace all,
Do we have a solid understanding on what 'prophet' means? Really I am very much looking forward for someone to explain that particular word..
Regards..
As you know , we already have plenty of Qur'an Translations and Interpretations , and very few of them are satisfactory to the students of Al Qur'an , so for me the best way is try to translate it myself for my own understanding . If you wish to understand what "prophet or Nabi means , here is the Root list meanings
" = Nun-Ba-Alif (root of nabi) = to be high, lofty, become exalted/elevated, to aquaint/inform, utter in a low voice/sound, cry, bark, gift of prophecy, prophet.
To come/go forth, to assault/come upon, went forth, brought/produce.
Information; a piece of information; intellegence; an announcement; news; tidings; a piece of news; an account; a narrative, or narration; a story (something that is related from one to another). An announcement of great utility, from which results either knowledge or a predominance of opinion, and true.
Eminence/protuberence in the ground/earth.
An evident/clear way.
Bull, a torrent that comes forth from another land, a man coming forth unexpectedly from an unknown quarter.naba n.m. (pl. of anba) - news/tiding/story/tale
344, 527, 65, 634, 667, 7101, 7175, 970, 1071, 1149, 11100, 11120, 12102, 149, 1813, 2099, 266, 2669, 2722, 283, 2866, 3320, 3821, 3867, 3888, 496, 544, 645, 782nabiy n.m. (pl. nabiyun and anbiya) - prophet, the prophet (al-nabiy)
261, 291, 2136, 2177, 2213, 2246, 2247, 2248, 321, 339, 368, 380, 381, 384, 3112, 3146, 3161, 3181, 469, 4155, 4163, 520, 544, 581, 6112, 794, 7157, 7158, 864, 865, 867, 870, 961, 973, 9113, 9117, 1755, 1930, 1941, 1949, 1951, 1953, 1954, 1956, 1958, 2252, 2531, 331, 336, 337, 3313, 3328, 3330, 3332, 3338, 3340, 3345, 3350, 3353, 3356, 3359, 37112, 3969, 436, 437, 492, 6012, 651, 661, 663, 668, 669nubuwah n.f. - prophecy/prophethood
379, 689, 2927, 4516, 5726nabba'a vb. (II) - to tell
perf. act. 994, 1237, 663
impf. act. 315, 349, 514, 548, 560, 5105, 660, 6108, 6159, 6164, 964, 994, 9105, 1018, 1023, 1215, 1245, 1333, 1878, 18103, 2272, 2464, 26221, 298, 3115, 3123, 347, 3514, 397, 4150, 586, 587, 628
impv. 6143, 1236, 1549, 1551, 5428
impf. pass. 5336, 647, 7513anba'a vb. (IV) - to tell " .
See if you can come up with your best translation of Nabi or Prophet .
Peace
almarh0m
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I honestly knew this off the top of my head, but it's easier (lazier) to copy and paste from Wikipedia
In Hebrew, the word that traditionally translates as prophet is (navi), which means "spokesperson". This forms the second of the three letters of TaNaKh, derived from Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim. The meaning of navi is perhaps described in Deuteronomy 1818, where God said, "I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him." Thus, the navi was thought to be the "mouth" of God. The root nun-vet-alef ("navi" is based on the two-letter root nun-vet which denotes hollowness or openness; to receive transcendental wisdom, one must make oneself ?open?. Cf. Rashbam's comment to Genesis 207.
Fully a third of the TaNaKh is devoted to books about prophetic experience including a separate book of ?minor? prophets known as The Twelve Prophets (Trei-Assar) .
According to I Samuel 99, the old name for navi is ro'eh, , which literally means "Seer". That could document an ancient shift, from viewing prophets as seers for hire to viewing them as moral teachers. Allen (1971) comments that in the First Temple Era, there were essentially seer-priests, who formed a guild, divined, performed rituals and sacrifices, and were scribes, and then there were canonical prophets, who did none of these (and were against divination) and had instead a message to deliver. The seer-priests were usually attached to a local shrine or temple, such as Shiloh, and initiated others as priests in that priesthood it was a mystical craft-guild with apprentices and recruitment. Canonical prophets were not organised this way. The similar term "ben-navi" ("son of the prophet" means "member of a seer-priest guild".
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Peace
o we have a solid understanding on what 'prophet' means?
I don't know about "we" and conformity but to me it means informer.
There are special circumstances applicable to the informer as they maintain a stability against enemies , and God, the Powers and Believers reach out to him .
Joe
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Peace,
If nabi means spokesperson/announcer, which I agree it is. this means nabi is wrongly translated as prophet. Prophet means someone who prophecy future events. But a Nabi is announcer of God's words whether he prophecy or not. Mohammed, is therefore, the final spokesperson of God.
Peace,
Rami