*Why 33:40 cannot mean muhammad was 'The Last Prophet/Messenger' *
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Hello all,
3340 Mohammed is (or was?) not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. (why did not God/scribes/authorised persons simply say-mohd is the last prophet to be born..No word in arabic for that or what?)472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him....
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves.
If we pay close attention to 3144, it may mean that Muhammed is only a messenger...3340 the word 'seal' might be a wrong word used as a translation. (bighelp needed here, one malaysian bro called it a 'ring' The prophet refered to in 3353 might not have been Muhammed at all.
peace.......
Mohammed is only a messenger but the Last prophet or human to receieve inspiration. He can't be the last messeneger as Angels are being sent all the time eg. angels of death.
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At this stage I am satisfied that , God continues to send prophets and messengers with the same message as The Qur'an , The Tawrat , The Injeel and the Message given to Abraham and Noah and even Adam before them . God's words always perfect , complete and protected and there is no change in The Message , so therefore no change in the law ( The Message in different languages such as Translation and Transliterarations of The Qur'an ) . perhaps 6114-115 clarify this ?
Where is the Tawrat and Injeel and the Message given to Abraham?
What is your stance towards today's Torah?
How many Books were sent to Man?
What is the relationship of the Book of Moses with the Tawrat and Injeel?Questions to ponder upon.
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Peace Rami
Where is the Tawrat and Injeel and the Message given to Abraham?
What is your stance towards today's Torah?
How many Books were sent to Man?
What is the relationship of the Book of Moses with the Tawrat and Injeel?Questions to ponder upon.
Do you really believe that Abraham wasn't given a Message by god , and Noah and even Adam ? Please read my post properly . I never said that The Tawrat and The Injeel were given to Abraham at all , what I said was that , The Message that god sends to whoever the prophets/messengers will be the same as The Qur'an , The Injeel , The Tawrat , and The Message given to Abraham , Noah and Adam . God never change His Law and His Message , in other word , The Message is always the same .
I don't believe there are any Torah or Injeel today , we may find some remnants of the Truth from both scriptures in The OT and NT but they are not "The Torah" nor is 'The Bible = "The Injeel" . Finding truths in them just proofs that God's Truth cannot be concealed .
The Relationship between The Injeel and The Tawrat ? The Injeel confirmed The Torah , the same as The Qur'an confirms all previous scriptures revealed by The God to various prophets and messengers .
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace Rami
Do you really believe that Abraham wasn't given a Message by god , and Noah and even Adam ? Please read my post properly . I never said that The Tawrat and The Injeel were given to Abraham at all , what I said was that , The Message that god sends to whoever the prophets/messengers will be the same as The Qur'an , The Injeel , The Tawrat , and The Message given to Abraham , Noah and Adam . God never change His Law and His Message , in other word , The Message is always the same .
I don't believe there are any Torah or Injeel today , we may find some remnants of the Truth from both scriptures in The OT and NT but they are not "The Torah" nor is 'The Bible = "The Injeel" . Finding truths in them just proofs that God's Truth cannot be concealed .
The Relationship between The Injeel and The Tawrat ? The Injeel confirmed The Torah , the same as The Qur'an confirms all previous scriptures revealed by The God to various prophets and messengers .
Peace
almarh0m
That what I think too.
Peace.
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Peace Rajah
Peace all,
Do we have a solid understanding on what 'prophet' means? Really I am very much looking forward for someone to explain that particular word..
Regards..
As you know , we already have plenty of Qur'an Translations and Interpretations , and very few of them are satisfactory to the students of Al Qur'an , so for me the best way is try to translate it myself for my own understanding . If you wish to understand what "prophet or Nabi means , here is the Root list meanings
" = Nun-Ba-Alif (root of nabi) = to be high, lofty, become exalted/elevated, to aquaint/inform, utter in a low voice/sound, cry, bark, gift of prophecy, prophet.
To come/go forth, to assault/come upon, went forth, brought/produce.
Information; a piece of information; intellegence; an announcement; news; tidings; a piece of news; an account; a narrative, or narration; a story (something that is related from one to another). An announcement of great utility, from which results either knowledge or a predominance of opinion, and true.
Eminence/protuberence in the ground/earth.
An evident/clear way.
Bull, a torrent that comes forth from another land, a man coming forth unexpectedly from an unknown quarter.naba n.m. (pl. of anba) - news/tiding/story/tale
344, 527, 65, 634, 667, 7101, 7175, 970, 1071, 1149, 11100, 11120, 12102, 149, 1813, 2099, 266, 2669, 2722, 283, 2866, 3320, 3821, 3867, 3888, 496, 544, 645, 782nabiy n.m. (pl. nabiyun and anbiya) - prophet, the prophet (al-nabiy)
261, 291, 2136, 2177, 2213, 2246, 2247, 2248, 321, 339, 368, 380, 381, 384, 3112, 3146, 3161, 3181, 469, 4155, 4163, 520, 544, 581, 6112, 794, 7157, 7158, 864, 865, 867, 870, 961, 973, 9113, 9117, 1755, 1930, 1941, 1949, 1951, 1953, 1954, 1956, 1958, 2252, 2531, 331, 336, 337, 3313, 3328, 3330, 3332, 3338, 3340, 3345, 3350, 3353, 3356, 3359, 37112, 3969, 436, 437, 492, 6012, 651, 661, 663, 668, 669nubuwah n.f. - prophecy/prophethood
379, 689, 2927, 4516, 5726nabba'a vb. (II) - to tell
perf. act. 994, 1237, 663
impf. act. 315, 349, 514, 548, 560, 5105, 660, 6108, 6159, 6164, 964, 994, 9105, 1018, 1023, 1215, 1245, 1333, 1878, 18103, 2272, 2464, 26221, 298, 3115, 3123, 347, 3514, 397, 4150, 586, 587, 628
impv. 6143, 1236, 1549, 1551, 5428
impf. pass. 5336, 647, 7513anba'a vb. (IV) - to tell " .
See if you can come up with your best translation of Nabi or Prophet .
Peace
almarh0m
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I honestly knew this off the top of my head, but it's easier (lazier) to copy and paste from Wikipedia
In Hebrew, the word that traditionally translates as prophet is (navi), which means "spokesperson". This forms the second of the three letters of TaNaKh, derived from Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim. The meaning of navi is perhaps described in Deuteronomy 1818, where God said, "I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him." Thus, the navi was thought to be the "mouth" of God. The root nun-vet-alef ("navi" is based on the two-letter root nun-vet which denotes hollowness or openness; to receive transcendental wisdom, one must make oneself ?open?. Cf. Rashbam's comment to Genesis 207.
Fully a third of the TaNaKh is devoted to books about prophetic experience including a separate book of ?minor? prophets known as The Twelve Prophets (Trei-Assar) .
According to I Samuel 99, the old name for navi is ro'eh, , which literally means "Seer". That could document an ancient shift, from viewing prophets as seers for hire to viewing them as moral teachers. Allen (1971) comments that in the First Temple Era, there were essentially seer-priests, who formed a guild, divined, performed rituals and sacrifices, and were scribes, and then there were canonical prophets, who did none of these (and were against divination) and had instead a message to deliver. The seer-priests were usually attached to a local shrine or temple, such as Shiloh, and initiated others as priests in that priesthood it was a mystical craft-guild with apprentices and recruitment. Canonical prophets were not organised this way. The similar term "ben-navi" ("son of the prophet" means "member of a seer-priest guild".
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Peace
o we have a solid understanding on what 'prophet' means?
I don't know about "we" and conformity but to me it means informer.
There are special circumstances applicable to the informer as they maintain a stability against enemies , and God, the Powers and Believers reach out to him .
Joe
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Peace,
If nabi means spokesperson/announcer, which I agree it is. this means nabi is wrongly translated as prophet. Prophet means someone who prophecy future events. But a Nabi is announcer of God's words whether he prophecy or not. Mohammed, is therefore, the final spokesperson of God.
Peace,
Rami -
Peace Rami
Peace,
If nabi means spokesperson/announcer, which I agree it is. this means nabi is wrongly translated as prophet. Prophet means someone who prophecy future events. But a Nabi is announcer of God's words whether he prophecy or not. Mohammed, is therefore, the final spokesperson of God.
Peace,
RamiI concur with the first 2 sentences of your post above , however , your conclusion in the last sentence is yet to be proved . Should we follow the same logic as your post suggested ( that Muhammad was the final Nabi ) then the same could be said of Isa ( Jesus ) Musa ( Moses ) and Ibrahim and Noah et al . For all "God's Message" is protected and cannot be altered or changef as per 159 and 6115 . The misconception here is that most muslims believe that only The Qur'an is protected , this is contrary to the verses thus cited .
Why can't Ibrahim , Moses , Jesus and others be the final "Prophets" if they brought the same message from god ? Or have you any Qur'anic evidence that suggests that what these previous prophets brought was different from the message of the Qur'an ? Anyway , there is nothing in 3340 that says "last" , unless you translate 'khatam' to mean that which is highly questionable . Why would The God used the word "Khatam" when He could have said "Akhir" which is a precise word instead of the ambiguous Khatam 'Seal/Stamp/Mark/Imprint' ? Surely god says what he meant and not what we like to mean ?
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace The Nabi
Thank you for pointing out these verses , I am sure it would help me to understand the question at hand better .
Peace
Can a seal be broken ?
Joe
Now lets see those verses again indetails
" They are made to quaff of a pure drink that is sealed " ( 8325 ) .
" The sealing of it is (with) musk; and for that let the aspirers aspire " ( 8326 )
If the Seal as it is used here is similar to wine cork , then yes , It can certainly be broken to get to the drink .
In the second verse , if the seal is being praiseworthy then I will have no further question regarding this subject for now .
Thank you and Peace be upon you .
almarh0m
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I don't think you can extrapolate from that verse alone whether or not there will ever being another prophet period. But in nearly two thousand years there hasn't been another successful messenger. Joseph Smith, Bahaiullah, and the Ahmadiyya guy were hardly runaway success stories.
But from the spirit of that verse, the plain meaning can be assumed as 'Islam isn't a dynasty and Mohammed hasn't placed a mantle over any other man thus giving him his authority.'
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I don't think you can extrapolate from that verse alone whether or not there will ever being another prophet period. But in nearly two thousand years there hasn't been another successful messenger. Joseph Smith, Bahaiullah, and the Ahmadiyya guy were hardly runaway success stories.
But from the spirit of that verse, the plain meaning can be assumed as 'Islam isn't a dynasty and Mohammed hasn't placed a mantle over any other man thus giving him his authority.'
bravo
Another prophet or not, that is not going to change our situation... Our fate remain the same... We have the Quran as a guide, let's walk along and aim for paradise... And ask Allah for guidance.
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Peace
bravo
Another prophet or not, that is not going to change our situation... Our fate remain the same... We have the Quran as a guide, let's walk along and aim for paradise... And ask Allah for guidance.
Ever read in history books about a people or community that achieved a high level of "civilisation" without an Imam or Leader ? There has always been Qur'an/ Book of Guidance from god since "He" created intelligent human . Evidence from the Qur'an indicates continuity of the same process and nothing changes about human nature from time immemorial .
Peace