Who made God?
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I see the proofs of God everwhere I look and in the miracle of the Quran.
But there there are still parts of me questioning God's existence no matter how much I believe in Him. I just can't help it.
If God created us, then who created God?
Did God just sit there on His own doing nothing in silence then decided to create us?
Who made God as God?I wouldn't dare ask these questions anywhere else &
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Peace nsws
It's not wrong to ask questions. A couple of months ago i reflected upon this question myself. Because atheist bring it up a lot when they are trying to disprove God's existence. But through logic, rationality and reason i found out that this question is a logical fallacy. And there exist solid arguments that demolish this claim. And i will go through some of the arguments below.
I think nobody created god, and that god has always existed. My first argument is that through logic and reason we will come to the conclusion that there must always be an ultimate first cause to everything. And the first cause everything is God.
As i mentioned in the beginning of my post the argument which you brought up atheist use a lot. they say if god exist, then who created god. Well, nobody have created god. And do we have any more arguments that can back up the claim that nobody has created god and that god always has existed? In my science class we learned that energy can never be created or disapear, it can only be transformed into other forms. that means that energy has existed from almost the beginning of time. And this is a solid argument to back up the claim that God has always existed. Because if energy have existed from the beginning of time (billions of billions of years), then God can also have existed from the beginning of time. God have existed even before energy because god created energy and everything else in the universe.
Did you know that Time and clock is man-made concepts. The clock and time was created by man. And today through modern science we now know that time is relative. And that the universal clock is wrong. For instance if you live in another planet you will get older faster or more slow because time is different there. you will for instance become an old lady in only the age of 30. Time goes faster or slower in that planet. It may go faster or slower than the planet earth. God is not bound by time. he can exist outside of time since he created day and night etc. If a human being create a computer he can exist oustide that computer. God can exist outside of time since he created time, which means that since he is not controlled by the laws of time, he is therefore eternal.
And since there is only one God and everything else exept God has been created, then God must have been the first cause. he is not bound by the same laws like us since he created the laws. He must have always existed. Just like humans that created the computer. Humans have existed before the computer. God existed before mankind. God is therefore eternal. And the Quran tells us that some beings will enter an eternal dimension
7223 It is but an announcement from God, and His messages. And whosoever disobeys God and His messenger, then he will have the fire of Hell to dwell eternally therein.
7619 And they are encircled with eternal children. If you see them you will think they are pearls which have been scattered about.
988 Their reward with their Lord is the gardens of Eden with rivers flowing beneath them, they abide eternally therein....
5315 Near it is the eternal Paradise.
From the verses above we can see that god can give eternal life to human beings if he wants. And since god can give human beings eternal life, it means that God is eternal. Because you can not give eternal life to someone unless you are eternal yourself. So, maybe the test of this life is that, thos who manage to get further development and reach eternal life, will be with God, and exist in his eternal dimension. And since god exist outside of time, he might exist in an eternal dimension where time does not exist. And if time does not exist in a place, that means that the place or dimension if you will have an eternal system. A system where it has never been a beginning nor it will be and end.
There are more that 40 verses in the Quran that tells us about eternality
http//free-minds.org/quran/search
And according to the dictionary, eternality means being without beginning or end
http//www.thefreedictionary.com/eternality
Another argument atheists use to try to disprove god's existence, is that they say Since we can not see god with our eyes, then that means that he cannot exist. Well we can not see aliens with our eyes either, We can not see energy with our eyes. We can not see magnetic fields with our eyes. But it does not matter. Because we know that life on other planets, energy and magnetic fields exist. Even dough we can not see energy with our eyes, we still know that it exists. Because we can feel the energy. We can feel its presence and existence. We don't have to see anything to know that it exists. We can not see god with our eyes but we can feel his presence.
David_k
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Peace nsws
It's not wrong to ask questions. A couple of months ago i reflected upon this question myself. Because atheist bring it up a lot when they are trying to disprove God's existence. But through logic, rationality and reason i found out that this question is a logical fallacy. And there exist solid arguments that demolish this claim. And i will go through some of the arguments below.
I think nobody created god, and that god has always existed. My first argument is that through logic and reason we will come to the conclusion that there must always be an ultimate first cause to everything. And the first cause everything is God.
As i mentioned in the beginning of my post the argument which you brought up atheist use a lot. they say if god exist, then who created god. Well, nobody have created god. And do we have any more arguments that can back up the claim that nobody has created god and that god always has existed? In my science class we learned that energy can never be created or disapear, it can only be transformed into other forms. that means that energy has existed from almost the beginning of time. And this is a solid argument to back up the claim that God has always existed. Because if energy have existed from the beginning of time (billions of billions of years), then God can also have existed from the beginning of time. God have existed even before energy because god created energy and everything else in the universe.
Did you know that Time and clock is man-made concepts. The clock and time was created by man. And today through modern science we now know that time is relative. And that the universal clock is wrong. For instance if you live in another planet you will get older faster or more slow because time is different there. you will for instance become an old lady in only the age of 30. Time goes faster or slower in that planet. It may go faster or slower than the planet earth. God is not bound by time. he can exist outside of time since he created day and night etc. If a human being create a computer he can exist oustide that computer. God can exist outside of time since he created time, which means that since he is not controlled by the laws of time, he is therefore eternal.
And since there is only one God and everything else exept God has been created, then God must have been the first cause. he is not bound by the same laws like us since he created the laws. He must have always existed. Just like humans that created the computer. Humans have existed before the computer. God existed before mankind. God is therefore eternal. And the Quran tells us that some beings will enter an eternal dimension
7223 It is but an announcement from God, and His messages. And whosoever disobeys God and His messenger, then he will have the fire of Hell to dwell eternally therein.
7619 And they are encircled with eternal children. If you see them you will think they are pearls which have been scattered about.
988 Their reward with their Lord is the gardens of Eden with rivers flowing beneath them, they abide eternally therein....
5315 Near it is the eternal Paradise.
From the verses above we can see that god can give eternal life to human beings if he wants. And since god can give human beings eternal life, it means that God is eternal. Because you can not give eternal life to someone unless you are eternal yourself. So, maybe the test of this life is that, thos who manage to get further development and reach eternal life, will be with God, and exist in his eternal dimension. And since god exist outside of time, he might exist in an eternal dimension where time does not exist. And if time does not exist in a place, that means that the place or dimension if you will have an eternal system. A system where it has never been a beginning nor it will be and end.
There are more that 40 verses in the Quran that tells us about eternality
http//free-minds.org/quran/search
And according to the dictionary, eternality means being without beginning or end
http//www.thefreedictionary.com/eternality
Another argument atheists use to try to disprove god's existence, is that they say Since we can not see god with our eyes, then that means that he cannot exist. Well we can not see aliens with our eyes either, We can not see energy with our eyes. We can not see magnetic fields with our eyes. But it does not matter. Because we know that life on other planets, energy and magnetic fields exist. Even dough we can not see energy with our eyes, we still know that it exists. Because we can feel the energy. We can feel its presence and existence. We don't have to see anything to know that it exists. We can not see god with our eyes but we can feel his presence.
David_k
We ( the People ) created God in our own Images out of our inability to prove His existence through scientific means . There is no god , but God , so the only way to convince ourselves that God exist is through faith , and very few people who has this faith .
Peace
almarh0m
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That is true that there has to be a first cause.
BUT we will still think who created that cause? How did it come to exist? Who gave it authority and power?I understand the concept of time. It is just a measurement of the rotation of the earth, which is in parallel to the ageing of our bodies. But time is also a feeling. You can sense time. Like when you are waiting. Did God start creating as soon as He appeared? Or did He do nothing for a long time? (By time I mean the feeling of time passing)
I understand the idea of existence not necessarily involve seeing or feeling as with the example of energy.
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That is true that there has to be a first cause.
BUT we will still think who created that cause? How did it come to exist? Who gave it authority and power?I understand the concept of time. It is just a measurement of the rotation of the earth, which is in parallel to the ageing of our bodies. But time is also a feeling. You can sense time. Like when you are waiting. Did God start creating as soon as He appeared? Or did He do nothing for a long time? (By time I mean the feeling of time passing)
I understand the idea of existence not necessarily involve seeing or feeling as with the example of energy.
I have already answeared the question you are asking in my last post. here are my arguments (my answears)
As i mentioned in the beginning of my post the argument which you brought up atheist use a lot. they say if god exist, then who created god. Well, nobody have created god. And do we have any more arguments that can back up the claim that nobody has created god and that god always has existed? In my science class we learned that energy can never be created or disapear, it can only be transformed into other forms. that means that energy has existed from almost the beginning of time. And this is a solid argument to back up the claim that God has always existed. Because if energy have existed from the beginning of time (billions of billions of years), then God can also have existed from the beginning of time. God have existed even before energy because god created energy and everything else in the universe.
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That is true that there has to be a first cause.
BUT we will still think who created that cause? How did it come to exist? Who gave it authority and power?Nobody can create the creator because he is the creator of all things. Okey let me use this example. if there are 1 man and 99 computers in a room which were created by that one man, then none of the 99 computers can have created the man because he is the creator of all the computers. Do you understand my point?
Also check out this verse, it explains my point
1123 ?He does not beget, nor was He begotten,?
Since there is only one god, and he is totally different from everything he has created, then he can be of another from. An uncreated form. Since everything god has created has a beginning, then god does not need to have a beginning.
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You said that energy cannot be created. Then you said God created energy and everything else in the universe.
According to science energy cannot be created. I only used energy as an argument. Since energy has existed from the beginning of time or from almost the beginning of time, then god can also exist from the beginning of time.
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We ( the People ) created God in our own Images out of our inability to prove His existence through scientific means . There is no god , but God , so the only way to convince ourselves that God exist is through faith , and very few people who has this faith .
Peace
almarh0m
Peace almarh0m
I don't think it is wrong to ask question and use our reason. Actually it is a duty for us to use our reason. I never claim that all my arguments in this thread are absolute truths, and i i am never too proud to admit i am wrong if i am wrong. So if you think i am wrong please correct my mistakes or disprove them through arguments. We are just having a philosophical debate were we are reflecting and speculating and as we know, it was reflecting/thinking that led most of us to the truth in the first place.
I disagree that the only way to convince ourselves that god exist is through faith. It is not the only way to convince the existence of God. We can also prove god's existence through quran, through nature, through science and last but not least, through reason. So faith can not be the only way to convince ourselves that God exist. There are other ways as well.
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I agree.
There has to be a reason for faith, otherwise it would be blind faith.Watch this movie. i think it might interest you. The movie shows us many arguments for the existence of God
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAyRmxq_G6Y
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I found an interesting article about your Question that i think might interest you
If God Created Everything, Who Created God? by Rich Deem
http//www.godandscience.org/apologetics/who_created_god.html
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Watch this movie. i think it might interest you. The movie shows us many arguments for the existence of God
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAyRmxq_G6Y
That link doesn't work but I've managed to find another one on youtube. I've watched part 1 so far.
I'm not questioning the existence of God, I know He exists. Its just those questions that have been nagging me. I guess the human mind isn't advanced enough to understand some things. -
Peace
If God created us, then who created God?
This reasoning should not apply to God because God always was. If you ask who created God, wouldn't you later on wonder, who created the guy who created God? Read chapter 112. God is the initiator, but He is and always was.
Joe
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peace,
As brother Joe said, the question leads to finding out the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause....... etc. in an infinite chain.
I believe part of the problem lies in the question as it assumes God exists, and by definition, God is the creator/eternal/etc thus the question does not apply if you are accepting such a being exists in the first place. Phrased differently, it is like saying Who created the creator?
Also, as far as I'm aware, the laws of physics/time/etc came into existence with the existence of the universe. Material events have material causes, thus if an uncaused cause exists, it is reasonable to assume it transcends material, it is immaterial, it is...... God?
In philosophy, this argument is commonly found as God as the uncaused cause, the prime mover.
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peace,
As brother Joe said, the question leads to finding out the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause....... etc. in an infinite chain.
I believe part of the problem lies in the question as it assumes God exists, and by definition, God is the creator/eternal/etc thus the question does not apply if you are accepting such a being exists in the first place. Phrased differently, it is like saying Who created the creator?
Also, as far as I'm aware, the laws of physics/time/etc came into existence with the existence of the universe. Material events have material causes, thus if an uncaused cause exists, it is reasonable to assume it transcends material, it is immaterial, it is...... God?
In philosophy, this argument is commonly found as God as the uncaused cause, the prime mover.
Peace
Thanks for the article.
I think the cause of my questioning comes from my personal relationship with God. Almost like treating God as a human being. Christians believe Jesus is God. Maybe this makes it easier for them to believe in God. Even in the Quran, God has personal qualities. He is compassionate of us. He forgives us. He sees us. He hears us. It does not mean He needs ears or eyes. He does not need a physical body. He isn't dependent on anything, including creation and time and space.
I think if I start to view God other than personal, it will help me understand Him better.
God bless
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Peace
God is very personal. Your every second existing is because He's thinking about you. "Not a leaf falls except with His knowledge" .
Joe
Peace
I read the Arabic of that verse and 'personal' in this verse means God knows everything within us.
A personal relationship with God is different. It is still right and I like having this kind of relationship but it makes it difficult to understand God outside time and space.God bless
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Peace
Thanks for the article.
I think the cause of my questioning comes from my personal relationship with God. Almost like treating God as a human being. Christians believe Jesus is God. Maybe this makes it easier for them to believe in God. Even in the Quran, God has personal qualities. He is compassionate of us. He forgives us. He sees us. He hears us. It does not mean He needs ears or eyes. He does not need a physical body. He isn't dependent on anything, including creation and time and space.
I think if I start to view God other than personal, it will help me understand Him better.
God bless
I sort of just see life or that which encompasses me and is within me and i am within it as God. In the Quran these phrases are on my mind about this issue
He is with you wherever you may be.
To God belongs the east and the west, wherever you turn there is his presence (wahj)
He encompasses all things.This just implies to me that when i'm alone, i'm not alone as God is with me sorrounding me, encompessing me and also within me.
and when i'm with a few people, it's me + the people + Godpeace
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Peace peace
I believe part of the problem lies in the question as it assumes God exists, and by definition, God is the creator/eternal/etc thus the question does not apply if you are accepting such a being exists in the first place. Phrased differently, it is like saying Who created the creator?
Thanks for writing this. I didn't realize that there was a contradiction in the objection to the unmoved mover argument. This clears things up a bit for me. The question, what caused God?, or "who created the creator?" has been on my mind for a long time. Not in any serious way, but I always wanted an answer to this. I think you make an interesting point.
Peace.
