Was the noble Koran written in English?
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Quran was revealed in Arabic, and since then it has been translated in almost all the languages. A translation can never convey 100% , what God meant to convey in original Arabic.
siki
Okay right, if anybody here believes the noble Koran was written in English, please feel free to join the thread but taking it as a working assumption that the Koran was not written in English, would anybody here have any comments about the practice of the following poster, in a different forum, to put up a shed load of verses from the Koran in postings without indication what translation of the Koran they are taken from, even when I have specifically asked that he provide the source(s) of the translation(s).
http//liberalforum.org/liberalforum/index.php?s=&showtopic=26650&view=findpost&p=1156273
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer -
Adrian,
It is not a working assumption that the Koran was not written in English, it is a verifiable FACT it was not. It has been translated into English, as well as other languages. A simple google search would answer this for you.
The poster you refer to is "Bigmo", and may be the same "Bigmo" as registered here. Simply personal message him.
You may wish to check out www.studyquran.org
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Adrian,
It is not a working assumption that the Koran was not written in English, it is a verifiable FACT it was not. It has been translated into English, as well as other languages. A simple google search would answer this for you.
The poster you refer to is "Bigmo", and may be the same "Bigmo" as registered here. Simply personal message him.
You may wish to check out www.studyquran.org
If you share the religious beliefs this forum is apparently designed to facilitate, that is fine by me, if you do not share the religious beliefs this forum is founded on, that is fine by me, if it is some mixture of the two that is fine by me. My assumption is that, the noble Koran in its original form was oral, it most certainly wasn't English, it was oral Arabic, it was then written down in Arabic and was not translated in to English till perhaps several centuries after the Prophet Mohammad PBUH had left Dunya and several centuries after it had first been had been written up in Arabic. Well, since I have had numerous exchanges on the web in Liberalforum with Bigmo, if the Bigmo that posts here and the Bigmo that posts in the Liberalforum are the same person, I would regard it as a complete waste of time to be in PM conversation with him. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe this forum places great authority in the noble Koran, presumably then you would believe it wrong to quote the Koran in English without indication of the source of the translation, so I thought it would be relevant to raise this issue, if it is the case that as I believe it to be that, Bigmo in Liberalforum is claiming his beliefs are in line with the beliefsystem which this forum is apparently designed to facilitate .
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer -
Hmm, you have a strange way of asking questions / making statements, but anyways...
This is a forum, it has no unified/accepted/one view. No one member can represent a forum.
Usually, if a person quotes a verse from Al Quran here, almost always they cite the chapter and verse number, so anyone reading it can look it up in whatever translation they wish or even the original Arabic, whatever they want. It is common not to state what translation they are using, but if someone wishes to know, I'm sure most would answer if asked.
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Hmm, you have a strange way of asking questions / making statements, but anyways...
This is a forum, it has no unified/accepted/one view. No one member can represent a forum.
Usually, if a person quotes a verse from Al Quran here, almost always they cite the chapter and verse number, so anyone reading it can look it up in whatever translation they wish or even the original Arabic, whatever they want. It is common not to state what translation they are using, but if someone wishes to know, I'm sure most would answer if asked.
This is a forum, it has no unified/accepted/one view.
Is that precisely true, for example I have been booted out of numerous forums for apparently no other reason, than I have happened to have a different opinion to that of the moderators. Now, forums are private organizations and I accept it is legitimate that they can have rules, so for example if say there is a Catholic forum and they have a rule that all postings must be in compliance with the "fact" as they would see it, that, Jesus was God's only begotten son and if a poster sought to argue that Jesus was was not the son of God, it would be at the discretion of the moderators to boot the poster out or not, but in many forums one can be in total compliance with the stated forum rules and seeming ethos of the forum and be booted out merely for having different opinions to the moderators. For example would it be acceptable here to argue that Jesus was the son of God and the Koran was in error on that or would one get booted for that?
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer -
Is that precisely true, for example I have been booted out of numerous forums for apparently no other reason, than I have happened to have a different opinion to that of the moderators. Now, forums are private organizations and I accept it is legitimate that they can have rules, so for example if say there is a Catholic forum and they have a rule that all postings must be in compliance with the "fact" as they would see it, that, Jesus was God's only begotten son and if a poster sought to argue that Jesus was was not the son of God, it would be at the discretion of the moderators to boot the poster out or not, but in many forums one can be in total compliance with the stated forum rules and seeming ethos of the forum and be booted out merely for having different opinions to the moderators. For example would it be acceptable here to argue that Jesus was the son of God and the Koran was in error on that or would one get booted for that?
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian WainerI have written a topic here before about how Koranist should save the Muslim population of the West. This is a big problem as Islam after 9-11 is being attacked and many Muslims find out that many of the things these critics(Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, Ayaan Ali, Irshad manji, Wafa Sultan etc) are saying are not lies but actual truths regarding "Islamic" teachings that many Islamic activists and clerics either hid or tried to spin. They then feel disappointd or feel under seige as they are not able to defend these teachings anymore. Some decide to apostate from Islam altogether.
Many of us here went through stages where we were Ikhwanis, then Salafis, then maybe Sufis(traditionalist) before realizing the difference between them is fictitous. But by being active we were able to find the Koranic way which as a literature that was burried under all these scholarly books and hadiths that it is almost impossible to know what the Koran actually says. Even now, I am still learning the Koran and still find myself realizing that the Koran says different things than what I thought. This even though I have been frequenting this site for almost three years now. Its very hard to know the Koran when you are already told in your home, school and mosques what Islam is and isn't. Thats why this website is very important as it gives people to opportunity to know the Koran.
Many Muslims simply do not really know what the Koran has to say about issues because they already have a preconceived notion of the Koran. You have to detoxicate yourself from everything you were told and believed and this is not easy and takes time.
When many of those who apostated from Islam watch me debate non Muslims and refute their criticism, many of these ex-Muslims and even Sunnis are confused and many think i am lying. They can't believe that so many things in Islam are not Koranic and even contradict the Koran. They can't believe the verses I quote and the ease I silence the critics. "This can't be Islam" they tell themselves. "This all can't be just hadiths and not the Koran. The Koran can't be actually saying these things. All these verses about freedom and justice and tolerance and all these verses that seems to contradict what Sunnis and Shias say, this can't be true."
This trend will continue if the only people speaking for Islam are Sunnis or Shias. They can not defend Islam from their critics because these are the teachings of these sects. Many of the Sunnis like the way i am defending Muhammad from his critics, but deep down they know this is not what they were taught and is contrary to the Islam they know and believe and are confused. They are not able to defend Muhammad from his critics and find themselves invoking the old" what about the Bible, what about Christianity and the West, you are no better". Other than that they can't do anything else.
On the other hand you have the Jews and Christians. They hate to recognize the Koranist as being true representatives of the Koran because the attacks they use against Islam are almost exclusively hadith based. They are not able to attack the Koran so they try to only give legitimacy to sectarian Islam by saying we are just a few people, and we are not considered Muslims by mainstream Islam and the Koran is insufficient on its own because its vague and ambiguous and we need hadiths to understand Islam. They talk just like Sunnis and repeat the Sunni jargon. They do this because the hadith to them is the golden treasure they need to attack Islam.
These trends I have noticed in many forums withing the groups I said. The ex Muslims, religious Sunnis and Jewish or Christian critics. The others are laid back.
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For example would it be acceptable here to argue that Jesus was the son of God and the Koran was in error on that or would one get booted for that?
See forum rules
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0In this forum you can say anything you want, however if you dont bring evidence/reasoning to the table, you will not be allowed to continue for long.
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i see you called bigmo "idiot" on the other forum
insulting won't lead you anywhere
I probably did and I might have called him worse and would argue that he deserved it, that forum operates to its own rules. It is perfectly reasonable to start throwing insults at people, when they start making arguments that could lead to Muslims crashing gasoline tankers in to Synagogues in Europe and the USA and blowing them up and refuse even to give an answer as to where they have have obtained their translations of the noble Koran from?
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer -
Is that precisely true, for example I have been booted out of numerous forums for apparently no other reason, than I have happened to have a different opinion to that of the moderators. Now, forums are private organizations and I accept it is legitimate that they can have rules, so for example if say there is a Catholic forum and they have a rule that all postings must be in compliance with the "fact" as they would see it, that, Jesus was God's only begotten son and if a poster sought to argue that Jesus was was not the son of God, it would be at the discretion of the moderators to boot the poster out or not, but in many forums one can be in total compliance with the stated forum rules and seeming ethos of the forum and be booted out merely for having different opinions to the moderators. For example would it be acceptable here to argue that Jesus was the son of God and the Koran was in error on that or would one get booted for that?
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian WainerI have written a topic here before about how Koranist should save the Muslim population of the West. This is a big problem as Islam after 9-11 is being attacked and many Muslims find out that many of the things these critics(Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, Ayaan Ali, Irshad manji, Wafa Sultan etc) are saying are not lies but actual truths regarding "Islamic" teachings that many Islamic activists and clerics either hid or tried to spin. They then feel disappointd or feel under seige as they are not able to defend these teachings anymore. Some decide to apostate from Islam altogether.
Many of us here went through stages where we were Ikhwanis, then Salafis, then maybe Sufis(traditionalist) before realizing the difference between them is fictitous. But by being active we were able to find the Koranic way which as a literature that was burried under all these scholarly books and hadiths that it is almost impossible to know what the Koran actually says. Even now, I am still learning the Koran and still find myself realizing that the Koran says different things than what I thought. This even though I have been frequenting this site for almost three years now. Its very hard to know the Koran when you are already told in your home, school and mosques what Islam is and isn't. Thats why this website is very important as it gives people to opportunity to know the Koran.
Many Muslims simply do not really know what the Koran has to say about issues because they already have a preconceived notion of the Koran. You have to detoxicate yourself from everything you were told and believed and this is not easy and takes time.
When many of those who apostated from Islam watch me debate non Muslims and refute their criticism, many of these ex-Muslims and even Sunnis are confused and many think i am lying. They can't believe that so many things in Islam are not Koranic and even contradict the Koran. They can't believe the verses I quote and the ease I silence the critics. "This can't be Islam" they tell themselves. "This all can't be just hadiths and not the Koran. The Koran can't be actually saying these things. All these verses about freedom and justice and tolerance and all these verses that seems to contradict what Sunnis and Shias say, this can't be true."
This trend will continue if the only people speaking for Islam are Sunnis or Shias. They can not defend Islam from their critics because these are the teachings of these sects. Many of the Sunnis like the way i am defending Muhammad from his critics, but deep down they know this is not what they were taught and is contrary to the Islam they know and believe and are confused. They are not able to defend Muhammad from his critics and find themselves invoking the old" what about the Bible, what about Christianity and the West, you are no better". Other than that they can't do anything else.
On the other hand you have the Jews and Christians. They hate to recognize the Koranist as being true representatives of the Koran because the attacks they use against Islam are almost exclusively hadith based. They are not able to attack the Koran so they try to only give legitimacy to sectarian Islam by saying we are just a few people, and we are not considered Muslims by mainstream Islam and the Koran is insufficient on its own because its vague and ambiguous and we need hadiths to understand Islam. They talk just like Sunnis and repeat the Sunni jargon. They do this because the hadith to them is the golden treasure they need to attack Islam.
These trends I have noticed in many forums withing the groups I said. The ex Muslims, religious Sunnis and Jewish or Christian critics. The others are laid back.
That is a very nice speech Bigmo, but if I am right in thinking you are the same Bigmo as posts in the Liberalforum, you are exhibiting the same characteristic you frequently do there, of talking at me not with me, in that I can not see what relevance my prior remarks have, to what you have said. How does that resolve the issue of you posting verses from the noble Koran without you indicating where those verses came from? How does that resolve the issue of you presumably cutting and pasting articles and not giving the weblink?
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer
