Was Jinn created out of fire ?
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I think that "art" when it is art and portrays evil things does play an important function and it is to make us understand what things may lead to evil and what it is that makes evil people evil, what they feel and how the reason or rather do not reason. People have gates, openings whereby the evil and sneak and come in. If you know those things and are on your guard you can stop them, if you are on a cimple diet of see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil, there is no way you can face evil. That is, some people may, others not. Some people are more inmune than others. Some people just can't go throw life with the see no evil... they must know, and besides society needs those people, they have a function to discharge.
SO i do think that art must deal with evil. It must do it however the right way and people must not be saturated with that kind of thing whereby it becomes common place, which is what happens nowadays where sicopaths are served all day long on tv plays and cinema, and all the media.
In this as in everything else lies what the Qur'an calls for which is the jsut measure, the middle way or balance.
Other than that, I consider the possibility that jinn might have more than one meaning, or that the meaning might be wide enough to include things tht we would translate differently.
Salaam
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I think the highest purpose of art is to entertain and intrigue and that it doesn't take an evil person to create or appreciate disturbing art. Why does road kill fascinate some people? Is it because they're sickos who like to cut open animals? No. Road kill intrigues people because it's not something they see very often. Similarly, someone might create or appreciate something that depicts something bad (something that requires you to imagine something evil) simply because it's new to them or for a billion other reasons which are not immoral.
It's not immoral for artists to create art that inspires some people to do bad things because art is just art, different people react differently to it and it's unreasonable to blame someone for creating something that inspired someone else to do something bad when that creation wasn't even intended to make people do bad things. Yeah, it's wrong to tell people to kill because you're inspiring evil with the intention to do so, but no one who writes a violent novel or makes a violent movie does so with the intention of inspiring people to do evil. Forgive me if none of this makes sense. I'm really, really sleepy right now ;D
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Peace Brother Ayman
Thank you for pointing out another 'probable' meaning of "jinn" as fantasy , good and bad , up to now I believe that "jinn" are men like ourselves who make the real decisions behind people in authority such as in governments as well as religious figures , corporate bodies as well criminal organisations . I based that belief on 7179 where "the Jinn + The man" make up the dwellers of hell , while overlooking the real possibility that "jinn" is at one with , or part of man .
I do understand when you said that "fantasies are the fuel of hell " , and bad fantasies such as 'fear' is hell on earth and the good fantasies should be nurtured and given life as this one gives us comfort and hope . I do not know if the saying " Fear is nothing but 'false evidence appearing real " was coined by paranoid people , but it certainly rings true for those who had experienced it , and who hasn't ?
Peace Almarh0m,
If you add the above observations to 2130, which indicates that every living thing is made of water then we can conclude that "jinn" are certainly not living things. So this further confirms that they are fantasies. The fantasies are the fuel of hell because hell is the worse thing that humans can imagine. On the other hand, there are no "jinn" in heaven. They are not needed. For those who go to heaven by their lord's mercy, everything that they will becomes reality and therefore there is no need to fantacize.
The reward for the good "jinn"/fantasies is not heaven. Their reward is that they are given water (7216), in other words, the good fantasies are given life.
This is why we need to control our fantasies and direct them towards good. In other words, we always need to imagine positive good things and avoid imagining sinful things. This will carry over to the next life when our imagination will come with us and become apparent to everyone.
Peace,
Ayman
Just for my own study on this subject ( and others too ) I will quote the verses here for clarity .
" Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe? " ( 2130 ) .
and....
" And Allah has created from water every living creature so of them is that which walks upon its belly, and of them is that which walks upon two feet, and of them is that which walks upon four; Allah creates what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things " ( 2445 ) . And
" And that if they should keep to the (right) way, We would certainly give them to drink of abundant water " ( 7216 ) .
Just to recap , lets see 7179 again ...
" And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones " ( 7179 ) .
Thank you Brother Ayman for this new perspective on the "jinn" , and may god increases our knowledge and wisdom .
Peace
almarh0m .
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I have something to say about Al-Khidr's PDF on jinn...and I can't find it on the Tawhid site anymore so I can't show it to people.
Now I agree a lot of things on the site are accurate and correct, however some things I don't agree with, like the 5 salaat theory (even that salaat even means "prayer" but moreso the theory that jinn are white and/or non-black human beings.
First of all, somewhere in his PDF he brings up the fact that the insan was fashioned out of black mud (the theory Adam was "black" still has holes by the way). So, he concludes by saying that all the current "black" people we have today on Earth are all descendants of Adam and the ones who aren't are not. Now he did not directly say that jinn are non-black people but he meant it obviously with his argument that "black people are descendants of Adam" meaning clearly that if you're not "black" you are technically not an insan or one of two categories of human beings (insan and jinn). If he is arguing jinn are 1. created before Adam, 2. not descendants of Adam, 3. descendants of Adam are black then he either has to say after that, that jinn are either white or just non-black human beings.
First of all, I would like to point out nowhere in his article does he bring up the fact jinn are made of smokeless fire (or just some type of fire) according to the Quran. This is very interesting considering this is pretty much the most significant information we have on the jinn and he never brings this up...probably because he cannot explain how a physical human being can be made of such material. Anyway...
Somewhere on the PDF or elsewhere, brings in science and argues human DNA goes back to the motherland i.e. Africa. Question however is, who were scientists tracing from? Just black people or all types of human beings (that migrated from Africa)? Since if it's the latter and it most likely is, that means we are all descendants of Adam and wherever we migrated, evolved us into what he are in terms of color and features.
The Quran says we cannot see the jinn, however Khidr in his PDF interpreted this as we cannot tell they are jinn beings because he agrees it does not coincide with the verse saying the devil (shaitan) is our clear enemy (and that jinn are descendants of Shaitan). So, somehow he knows the context of "clear" here and further concludes us not being able to SEE the jinn just means we can't tell whether or not someone is an insan or a jinn? Right...
He also argues since the Quran says "rigal min al-inss wa rigal min al-jinn" (or men from the inss and men from the jinn) that it has to mean the MEN are also among what is known as "the jinn" and "rigal" must mean men i.e. adult male human beings.
Question is, does it? Where does Khidr get the authority to define Quranic words on his own? It is very likely that rigal just means mature male, and since the jinn can make offsprings, there will have to be adult male jinn which can fit perfectly as a description for "rigal min al-jinn".
Now the Quran says we can't see them so should we believe this or not? I certainly don't see smokeless fire roaming around in my life.
Anyway I'm pretty much done.
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Peace Ayman,
How do you understand the jinns with solomon (chapter 34 and 27) and specifically how this particular word is used in 2710 i.e. something animate? What's your take on 5533 and 728? My view is similar to yours, just trying to be objective...
Thanks,
Peace
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Was the Jinn created out of fire according to The Qur'an ?
The "jinns" weren't created out of fire.
5515 Wakhalaqa aljanna min marijinmin narin
5515 He created the unseen beings of a confusing flame of fire (i.e. they have a fiery temperament).Those who think that it means that God created the jinns out of the material fire should reflect upon the following verse
2137 Khuliqa al-insanu min AAajalinsaoreekum ayatee fala tastaAAjiloona
2137 The human being is created out of haste (i.e. is a creature of haste/is impatient by nature). I will show you My signs, so do not be in a rush. (N.B. the words translated as "haste" and "rush" come from the same root. It shows that we are hasty by nature and it tells us not to be that hasty and be impatient, while waiting for God's signs). -
I posted the second verse to show that "KhLQ min" does not (necessarily) signify that the thing created was physically created out of a certain material. It represents/can represent the emotional disposition of the thing/being. I don't think that anybody would argue that the human being was phyiscally created by God out of haste or the material "haste", rather, it is makes more sense to interpret it as the human being being hasty by nature. If you interpret 2137 in this kind of way, why not do the same with 5515?
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Peace all,
perhaps slightly off-course but worth to ponder on
Fire is the ultra-living element. It is intimate and it is universal. It lives in our heart. It lives in the sky. It rises from the depths of the substance and hides there, latent and pent-up, like hate and vengeance. Among all phenomena, it is really the only one to which there can be so definitely attributed the opposing values of good and evil. It shines in paradise. It burns in hell.
?Gaston Bachelard, The Psychoanalysis of Fire
...doesn't that evoke something in your mind? For starter, both the "shining light" and the "flaming fire" may be closely related in the root nun-waw-ra...
As for the topic of "jinn", maybe it's best to compare the "origin/nature" (instead of "creation" of Aljann to that of AlInsan and also compare the "prime examples" of each; namely Ibliys and bashar (15-26-40).
Again for starter, the early verses may show us some kind of process in the making of AlInsan and Aljann. Not that God needs to make things in multiple steps, but i rather think it is something for us to understand and to take lesson from.
1526 Wa laqad khalaqna AlInsana min salsalin min Hama-in masnuwn
AlInsan,
from salsal
from hama-in masnuwn1527 W Aljanna khalaqnahu min qablu min nari Alsamuwm
AlJann,
from qablu
from nari Alsamuwm...
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I posted the second verse to show that "KhLQ min" does not (necessarily) signify that the thing created was physically created out of a certain material. It represents/can represent the emotional disposition of the thing/being. I don't think that anybody would argue that the human being was phyiscally created by God out of haste or the material "haste", rather, it is makes more sense to interpret it as the human being being hasty by nature. If you interpret 2137 in this kind of way, why not do the same with 5515?
Well said. I have nothing to say.
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lol Al-Khidr's jinn page has some creepy music rotfl
http//kushite.webs.com/jinn.htm
&
And a nice picture of a galaxy
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Proof Jinn.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyRc4iePZmE
When do we stop believing in fairy tales, and start seeking the Truth?
Modern Man and Neanderthals according to Science
http//www.livescience.com/history/090721-neanderthal-murder.html
http//www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/6430494/Modern-man-had-sex-with-Neanderthals.htmlReconstructing the Neanderthal
http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/prod_03.html
http//anthropology.net/2007/06/26/how-to-reconstruct-the-neanderthal-genome/Peace.
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Proof Jinn.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyRc4iePZmE
When do we stop believing in fairy tales, and start seeking the Truth?
Modern Man and Neanderthals according to Science
http//www.livescience.com/history/090721-neanderthal-murder.html
http//www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/6430494/Modern-man-had-sex-with-Neanderthals.htmlReconstructing the Neanderthal
http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/prod_03.html
http//anthropology.net/2007/06/26/how-to-reconstruct-the-neanderthal-genome/Peace.
What is the link between jinn and neanderthals? The dude in the Telegraph link looks like Shrek |
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I believe Jinn are Neanderthals.
Professor Stephen B.J.Menken, Phd. Chief Evolution biologist of Amsterdam University
"With the making of the first step to the primal soup which contains all basic elements for life to a living organism, we stumble upon a lot of problems. One of the problems is the UV-radiation of the sun. We are protected by our skin and the earth's ozonlayer from the worst radiation. The young earth didn't have a protecting ozonlayer, so the UV-radiation reached freely the atmosphere and the top water layers. A second problem is that the most simple organic substances can move in all directions in a watery substance. For life to emerge, it is necessary that the substances remain together, a third problem is the sensitivity of DNA and RNA, mainly the carbonic-sugars, which brake apart easy. There must have happened two things will the substances of the primal soup evolve to something more complicating, to life. The substances must remain together and protected against harmful influences from outside.
The second most important theory is that of the clay particles. These particles are common on earth. They're layered, smaller then two micrometer and can bind all organic molecules and make them react with each other. On the surface of the clay particles, can by example, RNA been build up from simple molecules. Next to that, enhance the clay particles, the forming of fatty-acids, in which an environment can evolve which is separated from the outside world.
The walls of every cell, of plants, animals and fungi?s, are build up out of double layered fatty-acids. In a solution of fatty-acids together with clay particles, bindings emerge of double layered fatty-acids. If on the surface of the enclosed clay particles, molecules get 'stuck', this can be most important for the origins of life, then by this theory can we explain the build of the primitive cell."We know Allah created the universe in 6 days/periods (yaum). Surah 754, 103, 117, 2559, 324
We know Allah created the jinn and the angels before man. Surah 1527, 3876
We know the likeness of Isa (pbuh) is the likeness of Adam (pbuh); Allah said 'Be' and he was. Surah 359
Mary had to give birth to Isa (pbuh). Surah 1923Peace.
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Peace Almarh0m,
If you add the above observations to 2130, which indicates that every living thing is made of water then we can conclude that "jinn" are certainly not living things. So this further confirms that they are fantasies. The fantasies are the fuel of hell because hell is the worse thing that humans can imagine. On the other hand, there are no "jinn" in heaven. They are not needed. For those who go to heaven by their lord's mercy, everything that they will becomes reality and therefore there is no need to fantacize.
The reward for the good "jinn"/fantasies is not heaven. Their reward is that they are given water (7216), in other words, the good fantasies are given life.
Ayman
Ayman, you are as much misguided as you are ignorant.
You say that its impossible that Jinn are living things because Allah said they are made from fire, but Allah also said that every living thing is made from water. Have you ever taken a chemistry class to learn what water is actually made from? Hint H2O
That means, 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom per every molecule. These are the 2 of the 3 components required for a fire.
- Fuel -- Hydrogen
- Oxidizer -- Oxygen
- Ignition source.
Hydrogen by itself cannot burn. Oxygen by itself cannot burn. But when you mix them, all you need is an ignition source. Don't believe that water can actually burn?? All you need to do is "shatter" the molecule with the correct frequency. Watch this youtube video.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Haj4BX0trU
Or this one
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGAkRkCWfA
You then twist verse 7216 in a perverted manner to assume that because it says that the Jinns would be granted lots of water, that that somehow means the righteous Jinn can never be granted heaven. Have you failed to read the countless parts in the Quran where it refers to heaven as having bountiful supplies of water???? Higher heaven has endless drinks, and lower heaven is described as having an endless well of water which only needs to be pumped by hand.
Look at the description of heaven which it says Jesus and Mary were granted.
2350 And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs.
Does this also mean that they weren't granted heaven? They were given a private condo or something?
You have no right to say things about Allah which you have no knowledge of, Ayeman, and try to pass them off as fact. It is possible that Jinn are living things, even if they were "made from fire". The "made from fire" is an allegory to say "made from energy", as opposed to the human which was made from "organic components" (i.e. clay). Still, energy can be directly derived from water.
Even furthermore I am not sure if you have every read the theories of Einstein, but Energy is equal to Mass times Constant (speed of light) to the 2nd power.
E= MC^2
Do you know what an atom is made of?? An electron spinning around a tiny proton. An atom is nothing founded in reality. Matter is an illusion. It is simply the ENERGY STATE of an atom. When you step down the energy state, you see energy released.
Every molecule, every atom in the universe, is nothing but stabilized energy frequencies (vibrations).
Water is nothing but energy. Any molecule is nothing but energy. Hydrogen is the most simple form of energy.... Therefor, if Jinn are nothing but energy, it can be described that Jinn are also made from water (which is nothing but energy).
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Ayman, you are as much misguided as you are ignorant.
You say that its impossible that Jinn are living things because Allah said they are made from fire, but Allah also said that every living thing is made from water. Have you ever taken a chemistry class to learn what water is actually made from? Hint H2O
That means, 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom per every molecule. These are the 2 of the 3 components required for a fire.
- Fuel -- Hydrogen
- Oxidizer -- Oxygen
- Ignition source.
Hydrogen by itself cannot burn. Oxygen by itself cannot burn. But when you mix them, all you need is an ignition source. Don't believe that water can actually burn?? All you need to do is "shatter" the molecule with the correct frequency. Watch this youtube video.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Haj4BX0trU
Or this one
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGAkRkCWfA
You then twist verse 7216 in a perverted manner to assume that because it says that the Jinns would be granted lots of water, that that somehow means the righteous Jinn can never be granted heaven. Have you failed to read the countless parts in the Quran where it refers to heaven as having bountiful supplies of water???? Higher heaven has endless drinks, and lower heaven is described as having an endless well of water which only needs to be pumped by hand.
Look at the description of heaven which it says Jesus and Mary were granted.
2350 And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs.
Does this also mean that they weren't granted heaven? They were given a private condo or something?
You have no right to say things about Allah which you have no knowledge of, Ayeman, and try to pass them off as fact. It is possible that Jinn are living things, even if they were "made from fire". The "made from fire" is an allegory to say "made from energy", as opposed to the human which was made from "organic components" (i.e. clay). Still, energy can be directly derived from water.
Even furthermore I am not sure if you have every read the theories of Einstein, but Energy is equal to Mass times Constant (speed of light) to the 2nd power.
E= MC^2
Do you know what an atom is made of?? An electron spinning around a tiny proton. An atom is nothing founded in reality. Matter is an illusion. It is simply the ENERGY STATE of an atom. When you step down the energy state, you see energy released.
Every molecule, every atom in the universe, is nothing but stabilized energy frequencies (vibrations).
Water is nothing but energy. Any molecule is nothing but energy. Hydrogen is the most simple form of energy.... Therefor, if Jinn are nothing but energy, it can be described that Jinn are also made from water (which is nothing but energy).
wow...
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Jinn are of their own type.
Chapter 55 is very clear to be honest. If 5514 is clear and literal then 5515 must also be clear and literal.
Every molecule, every atom in the universe, is nothing but stabilized energy frequencies (vibrations).
This is correct but it cannot be taken out of context.
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Chapter 55 is very clear to be honest. If 5514 is clear and literal then 5515 must also be clear and literal.
I don't think it's that black and white. Fire/nar is rarely literal in my readings. 410 is an excellent reference for nar as well as 934-35.
I'd like to hear thoughts on 712. Why is being created from fire better than being made from clay?
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peace Jack, all,
Well, it could be answered in several ways. Some suggestions fire could be considered more aesthetically pleasing than mud, mud is earthly whilst fire is not necessarily so, fire could be seen as more powerful than mud, fire is less restricted than mud, fire is bright mud is dull/dark, fire can give off light whilst mud does not.
Whilst I do not necessarily think the above differences are significant, but what I do think is significant is that they are different. And it is this difference that leads to thinking oneself as greater/superior (or knows better) thus not complying to a higher command, and then being classed as one of the kafireen/concealers/deniers/ungrateful/rejecters .
Sound familiar?
