Beating wife theory is negated by Qur'aan=4:34
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Peace Samia,
Is it possible that "idhriboohunna" in 434 can mean "prevent/hinder them" linguistically and contextually? Fear "nushuz" obviously means nushuz has not been committed yet and the remedies have to be pre-emptive. How can someone beat another for something that has not even been committed yet? Logically and contextually "prevent/hinder them" makes sense as a pre-emptive remedy for fear of nushuz.
If you fear your child will indulge in drugs then you should beat the child even before the child takes drugs. How nonsensical would that be. It will however make sense to prevent/hinder the child from doing drugs. 434 is similar in that nushuz is being feared and not actually committed yet.
Interesting point, but what about the other methods already mentioned (ie. address the issue politely, etc.)?
Also, you say it means "prevent/hinder them" - how? from what?
I like the interpretation "admonish them with more examples/punish them otherwise, etc.""Seperate them" would only be possible in a polygamous marriage. "Seperate from them" would not make sense, since right after that it says "if they obey you, do not transgress/seek a way against them".
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Peace all,
And those (from) whom
you fear
so the treatment starts before nushuz or after it?
Before the proposed actions is "Fa" which reflects the relationship of cause and effect. When there is cause and subsequent is the effect/result then in between "fa" is placed. And there is nothing of the sort what some call "pre-emptive". What is said is that whose "Nushooz" are making you fearful/are causing you fear then in that case do this and that.
And those wives whose untoward/inappropriate conduct is making/makes you fearful/afraid
then for this reason politely and lovingly advise such of them,
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .
The ONLY peculiar feature that makes the relations of wife and husband distinct from all other relationships is the fact known to everyone that both do sex in the bed room. But this is never pronounced orally that we or the husband never says orallay that I...... The moment wife is moved out of the bed room he is telling loudly without use of words that both are no more doing any sex, the primary distinction of their relationship. The next step advised to be taken also rebuts the theory of beating propounded by tradition/hadith mongers.
The by design/willfully breaking of sexual relationship by a husband is bound to eventually break the marriage, therefore, others are asked to intervene the moment a husband is moved out his wife from the bed room it is like announcing with the beat of durm that he is discontinued sexual relationship with her.
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Peace
Very strange ,I have given the Sura Name . Cannot you read it ??
RegardsYes, you have given the chapter name in arabic! This is an english-speaking/international forum. At least provide people with the chapter and verse NUMBER.
Thanks.
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Before the proposed actions is "Fa" which reflects the relationship of cause and effect. When there is cause and subsequent is the effect/result then in between "fa" is placed. And there is nothing of the sort what some call "pre-emptive". What is said is that whose "Nushooz" are making you fearful/are causing you fear then in that case do this and that.
yes, that makes sense. peace
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and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .
bravo bravo
This is the correct explanation of the word, especially when we compare the actions taken before (advise them, keep away from their beds), which are confined to the home/done in the privacy of the house; and the action taken after taking the case to the court/arbitrators.I slightly differ in my understanding of this part
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
You do not shift them away, you stay away from them. This is not a "punishment" to her in as much as a punishment to him. In fact it's not a punishment at all, but a test for the husband to see how life would be away from her/her intimacy; maby then he will see the bright side (by missing it) and then find that it is not so difficult to put up with her nushuuz.
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I would like to draw the attention to the fact that these wives are not the dependent wives, but these are the ones who support the husband. It's interesting to see that the verse gives two examples of females in this verse. This is normal in the qur'aan (6610-12)
6610Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them) Enter the Fire along with those who enter.
6611And Allah citeth an example for those who believe the wife of Pharaoh when she said My Lord! Build for me a home with thee in the Garden, and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from evil-doing folk;
6612And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.
The examples of the two women in this verse are examples of "rijal" women who are bread winners. I do not see any meaning in giving example of those you support. The qur'aan does not describe them except as vulnerable. Nothing about their manners or faith. The description is always for active people.
The first kind are ( / the good doers are pious, keeping the secret) the secret that they are supporting the husband. This throws a shadow on the meaning of "nushuz arrogance/rising abnormally). This when the wife starts bragging and boasting about how much she spends and does not keep the secret.
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I would like to draw the attention to the fact that these wives are not the dependent wives, but these are the ones who support the husband. It's interesting to see that the verse gives two examples of females in this verse. This is normal in the qur'aan (6610-12)
6610Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them) Enter the Fire along with those who enter.
6611And Allah citeth an example for those who believe the wife of Pharaoh when she said My Lord! Build for me a home with thee in the Garden, and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from evil-doing folk;
6612And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.
The examples of the two women in this verse are examples of "rijal" women who are bread winners. I do not see any meaning in giving example of those you support. The qur'aan does not describe them except as vulnerable. Nothing about their manners or faith. The description is always for active people.
The first kind are ( / the good doers are pious, keeping the secret) the secret that they are supporting the husband. This throws a shadow on the meaning of "nushuz arrogance/rising abnormally). This when the wife starts bragging and boasting about how much she spends and does not keep the secret.
why a wife should keep this a secret that she is supporting her family?
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Because it's nobody's business.
rotfl
but one can choose not to interfere. I respectfully would disagree with you on that interpretation.
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Why should anyone interfer? Interfer in what?
If you are unemployed, would you like your wife to tell evrybody that you are not working and she is the one supporting you and buying you cigars, which you burn?in a family everyone support each other, there is nothing to hide. If one is being lazy and prefer to be like that wife must not keep it a secrete. and if one is trying hard and in the meanwhile wife is supporting the family that would be fine.
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I slightly differ in my understanding of this part
Quote
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed roomsYou do not shift them away, you stay away from them. This is not a "punishment" to her in as much as a punishment to him. In fact it's not a punishment at all, but a test for the husband to see how life would be away from her/her intimacy; maby then he will see the bright side (by missing it) and then find that it is not so difficult to put up with her nushuuz.
Sister,
The word used is . And the basic perception in the Root of this word at all 31 occurences is physical change of location/placing. For staying away,another word is used in 4129. This physical distancing is within the four walls of bed rooms which has only one connotation, and very apparent. But this brekage/Hijr is not apparent to other members of the family, they remain under the false perception that both are enjoying normal relations because they cant peep to find both are on two different locations. If the "breakage" is to prolong even in that case the safe course is to make the wife move out of the bed room since by certain gestures she can make a healthy husbands nights sleepless and heavy upon him.
Allah does not permit that the atmosphere inside the bed room should be such which is untrue to the general perception prevailing in the minds of the people outside the bed room. For this reason, Allah has said that the affairs can not be left to the whims of husband. If he has taken oath not to sleep with his wife Allah has given him four months to decide either way, break his oath in which case he will find Allah forgiving mercifully; in other words Allah is prompting such husband to break his oath, or openly announce divorce so that people know he is not having sex with his wife; but in that case he will not find Allah as forgiving but as listner and knower which create an obligation for judgment. -
Because it's nobody's business.
Peace
Nashooz (Betrayal) is a violation of the contract ,no matter if it is carried out by the woman or man. It is a serious matter because whole family including children are affected morally.It has to be punished.
Regards -
Peace
Nashooz (Betrayal) is a violation of the contract ,no matter if it is carried out by the woman or man. It is a serious matter because whole family including children are affected morally.It has to be punished.
Regardswhat is the punishment of a husband if he nushuz?
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what is the punishment of a husband if he nushuz?
Peace
Because female is physically weak ,she will make the "state " to interfere.581
(581) Allah *1 has indeed heard the words of the woman who is pleading with you concerning her husband and is making her complaint to Allah. Allah is hearing your mutual conversation *2 . He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.]
Any complaint on the part of the woman the "state" should address it.If the husband is found guilty ,he will be punished accordingly.
Regards
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Peace
Nashooz (Betrayal) is a violation of the contract ,no matter if it is carried out by the woman or man. It is a serious matter because whole family including children are affected morally.It has to be punished.
RegardsWhy punished? She did not tell a lie she is supporting him. What's the punishment for being arrogant?
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Peace
Because female is physically weak ,she will make the "state " to interfere.thats why we should beat her if she is guilty of nushuz? what is the punishment of a husband if he is guilty of nushuz?
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Peace
Because female is physically weak ,she will make the "state " to interfere.581
(581) Allah *1 has indeed heard the words of the woman who is pleading with you concerning her husband and is making her complaint to Allah. Allah is hearing your mutual conversation *2 . He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.]
Any complaint on the part of the woman the "state" should address it.If the husband is found guilty ,he will be punished accordingly.
Regards
Any punishment is the business of the community. No individual has the right to judge and/or punish another.
And this is a twisted logic because a woman is physically weak, the husband has the right to beat her up?! -
thats why we should beat her if she is guilty of nushuz? what is the punishment of a husband if he is guilty of nushuz?
But where is the punishment for wives for their Nashooz?
Advise, is it called punishment anywhere?
Remove her away to seperate bed inside the bed room--don't have sex with her--who calls it punishment? For healthy husband it is other way round, self punishment.
Remove her from bed room into other part of the house---is it punishment?