Beating wife theory is negated by Qur'aan=4:34
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It is the overall teaching. Like you said (once again)...
you are jealous that god has given us the right to beat up nushuzed wives. well, no one can question god he knows better we do not.
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Are you schizophrenic?
I can understand your frustration. )
dear sister the person who started this thread and the mods won't like such basic discussion on this thread, if you still have doubts and wish to discuss it any further use pm. may god give some wisdom to all of us.
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Peace
The "Nashooz" is not simply "disobedience".It has three elements in it.- ( 2 / 429)
1Hatred for the Husband
2Disobedience
3She is inclined to someone other than husband"Nashooz" is a sort of complete betrayal on the part of wife and not simple "disobedience " as it is being portrayed.
Regards -
@ RasulHamsa
are you aware of the many different meanings the root "DaRaBa"?
Daad-Ra-Ba = to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention, state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march on, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, leave for sake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/withheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet. -
I can understand your frustration.
dear sister the person who started this thread and the mods won't like such basic discussion on this thread, if you still have doubts and wish to discuss it any further use pm. may god give some wisdom to all of us.
I'm not frustrated don't you worry about me. No I have wasted enough time with you today so don't expect a pm
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No I have wasted enough time with you today so don't expect a pm
I am sorry if you feel that way, I didn't mean to upset you it was purely unintentional. peace
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@ RH
have you read this?
Daad-Ra-Ba = to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention, state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march on, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, leave for sake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/withheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet. -
and thus merits beating up?
Peace
Exposition by G A Pervaiz
first admonish the women, then, if required, separate them temporarily from their husbands, or intern them, and finally, if necessary, punish them otherwise.
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_004.htm
Regards
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Peace
Exposition by G A Pervaiz
first admonish the women, then, if required, separate them temporarily from their husbands, or intern them, and finally, if necessary, punish them otherwise.
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_004.htm
Regards
I like that translation. I also like Shabbir Ahmed's "admonish them with more examples".
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@ RH
have you read this?
Daad-Ra-Ba = to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention, state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march on, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, leave for sake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/withheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet.thanks, arabic is an amazing language. peace
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thanks, arabic is an amazing language. peace
It surely is, but that doesnt make it the only language spoken in heaven
BTW how do you know whether we are going to speak as we are doing on earth??peace
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It surely is, but that doesnt make it the only language spoken in heaven
BTW how do you know whether we are going to speak as we are doing on earth??peace
please don't ruin this thread or else we could get a warning from the mods. peace
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please don't ruin this thread or else we could get a warning from the mods. peace
I'm not ruining it
The only thing is that we were on the topic of "Arabic" and I just couldnt resist saying that. No intentions to go off topic.Back to the initial topic...
I hope you consider the many meanings and possibilities of translating/interpreting "idribuhunne".
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I like that translation. I also like Shabbir Ahmed's "admonish them with more examples".
Peace
Shabbir Ahmed is good for nothing as far as Quran is concerned.First step in the remedies described is "admonishing" so this 3rd step remedy cannot mean "admonishing".
Regards -
Peace Q_s,
Shabbir Ahmed is good for nothing as far as Quran is concerned.
Says who?
First step in the remedies described is "admonishing" so this 3rd step remedy cannot mean "admonishing".
Admonish
To warn or notify of a fault; to reprove gently or kindly, but seriously; to exhort.
To counsel against wrong practices; to caution or advise; to warn against danger or an offense; ? followed by of, against, or a subordinate clause.
To instruct or direct; to inform; to notify.Example
Something that is representative of all such things in a group.
Something that serves to illustrate or explain a rule.
Something that serves as a pattern of behaviour to be imitated (a good example) or not to be imitated (a bad example).
"Learn from me, if not by my precepts, then at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge" - Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
A person punished as a warning to others.
A parallel or closely similar case, especially when serving as a precedent or model.
An instance (as a problem to be solved) serving to illustrate the rule or precept or to act as an exercise in the application of the rule."admonish them with more examples"...
a. is in line with the meaning of "idribuhunne"
b. fits the context well
c. is initially the same as "punish them otherwise"Think about it.
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Peace
Exposition by G A Pervaiz
first admonish the women, then, if required, separate them temporarily from their husbands, or intern them, and finally, if necessary, punish them otherwise.
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_004.htm
Regards
Is this supposed to be a response to my question?
How does "dharaba" become "punish"? Can you find such a meaning in classical arabic dictionaries?
The translator simply couldn't say "strike them/beat them up", because he will have to say which part of the body and with what, and even then, it will no more be "dharaba", but "latama", sakka", rafasa"...many many words. The meaning "strike/beat" does not stand for "dharaba" by itself. Every strike or "dharba" has a diffrent word, depending on what part to strike and using what. The verb "dharaba" by itself means to strike with a sword, cane or whip; and this is from all arabic dictionaries. That's what they say in the beginning of the entry Dharaba known. I donot think "strike" in such ambiguity would be described as "known", but fighting and killing is.Also, who will punish her? The husband? he is the victim, the prosecutor, the judge and the executer? nope
The community? Why punish her, then go for the mediation/court? nopeIt is more "value for money", to borrow the market's expression, for the wife to go straight for a full relation and the husband cannot lay a hand on her (246)
As for those who accuse their spouses but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he/she is of those who speak the truth;
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Is this supposed to be a response to my question?
How does "dharaba" become "punish"? Can you find such a meaning in classical arabic dictionaries?
The translator simply couldn't say "strike them/beat them up", because he will have to say which part of the body and with what, and even then, it will no more be "dharaba", but "latama", sakka", rafasa"...many many words. The meaning "strike/beat" does not stand for "dharaba" by itself. Every strike or "dharba" has a diffrent word, depending on what part to strike and using what. The verb "dharaba" by itself means to strike with a sword, cane or whip; and this is from all arabic dictionaries. That's what they say in the beginning of the entry Dharaba known. I donot think "strike" in such ambiguity would be described as "known", but fighting and killing is.Also, who will punish her? The husband? he is the victim, the prosecutor, the judge and the executer? nope
The community? Why punish her, then go for the mediation/court? nopeIt is more "value for money", to borrow the market's expression, for the wife to go straight for a full relation and the husband cannot lay a hand on her (246)
As for those who accuse their spouses but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he/she is of those who speak the truth;
Peace
MUHAMMAD ASADAnd as for those women whose ill-will44 you have reason to fear, admonish them ; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them;45 and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!
HIS EXPLANATORY NOTE
45 It is evident from many authentic Traditions that the Prophet himself intensely detested
the idea of beating one's wife, and said on more than one occasion, "Could any of you beat his
wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim).
According to another Tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, "Never
beat God's handmaidens" (Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban and
Hakim, on the authority of Iyas ibn 'Abd Allah; Ibn Hibban, on the authority of 'Abd Allah
ibn 'Abbas; and Bayhaqi, on the authority of Umm Kulthum). When the above Qur'an-verse
authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have
said "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing - and what God has willed must
be best" (see Manar V, 74). With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of
the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only
if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct", and that it should
be done "in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)"; authentic Traditions to this
effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these
Traditions, all the authorities stress that this "beating", if resorted to at all, should
be more or less symbolic - "with a toothbrush, or some such thing" (Tabari, quoting the
views of scholars of the earliest times), or even "with a folded handkerchief" (Razi); and
some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g., Ash-Shafi'i) are of the opinion that it is just
barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided and they justify this opinion by the
Prophet's personal feelings with regard to this problem.Regards