Samia's worst nightmare from a Sista!
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2885 Surely, the One who decreed the Quran to you will summon you to a predetermined appointment. Say, "My Lord is fully aware of who it is that brings the guidance, and who has gone astray."
2886 Nor did you expect this book to come your way; but this is a mercy from your Lord. Therefore, you shall not side with the rejecters.
2887 Nor shall you be diverted from God's signs/revelations, after they have come to you. Invite to your Lord, and do not be of those who set up partners.
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware/upholding Divine Laws, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
Do you seriously think that the New Testament is the "Injeel"?! laugh
I dont. Bigmo does.
But the problem if its not what the hell is it?
Anyway, that is going off-topic.
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Peace,
This question is irrelevant - we have the Quran. It seems as if the Quran is not enough for you.
Maybe I'm missing (or misunderstanding) something... You believe that the Torah is "done away with" since the Qur'aan has been revealed? This is the same idea the Christians fabricated, when they said that Jesus did away with the Torah... There's nothing in the Qur'aan that alleges that the Torah is not the true word of G-d, there's nothing that says that G-d's people should discard the Torah, and there's nothing that says that we shouldn't follow it's guidance. In fact, it says the opposite; Jews are still expected to abide by the laws of Torah, the Nazarenes are still expected to follow the guidance of the Enjeel, and the followers of Muhammad (among the gentile nations) are expected to follow the doctrines of the Qur'aan...
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Peace Ahmad
Peace,
Maybe I'm missing (or misunderstanding) something... You believe that the Torah is "done away with" since the Qur'aan has been revealed? This is the same idea the Christians fabricated, when they said that Jesus did away with the Torah... There's nothing in the Qur'aan that alleges that the Torah is not the true word of G-d, there's nothing that says that G-d's people should discard the Torah, and there's nothing that says that we shouldn't follow it's guidance. In fact, it says the opposite; Jews are still expected to abide by the laws of Torah, the Nazarenes are still expected to follow the guidance of the Enjeel, and the followers of Muhammad (among the gentile nations) are expected to follow the doctrines of the Qur'aan...
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Rami has quoted many things from the OT (ie. Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc.)
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297 Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers."
548 Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.
- As you might know, the Bible is a man-made book composed out of the man-made OT and the man-made NT, although they might be/are somewhat related to the teachings of the previous messengers. So the Bible is NOT the Injeel. So what are they expected to follow?! The Torah as we know it today might also have been altered and it probably was. Although it is not entirely man-made/has a lot of it's original contents, although we cant prove it.
Please read the following
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
568 Say, "O people of the book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Injeel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." For many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the ingrates.
569 "Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, those who are the followers of other religions, and the Christians -Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve."
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Peace Progressive,
- Rami has quoted many things from the OT (ie. Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc.)
Yes, and there's nothing wrong with quoting from the Torah, which is also the word of G-d...
- 297 Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers."
548 Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.
Okay... Considering this, why do you allege that the Torah is corrupted? The Qur'aan doesn't say this; rather it says that the Torah is preserved and confirmed... The passage you quoted in 548 is dependent on the translation, since the literal meaning for it says that the Qur'aan is "confirming what is between his hands (Torah) and protecting it". There's no clear indication that the scripture is talking about the Qur'aan superceding the Torah at all, and this is completely based on the translator's (in this case, Rashad Khalifa's) interpretation. The Torah is not superceded, it's guarded... As a clear guide, you have to acknowledge that "muslimoon"/submitters existed long before Muhammad, and long before the revelation of the Qur'aan. Therefore, adhering solely to the Qur'aan is NOT a prerequisite for being a muslim. It's simply a guide for those who haven't received the Torah or Enjeel...
The Jews are instructed to continue following Torah, and the Nazarenes are told to continue following the Enjeel. The Qur'aan is for those who don't belong to either of these groups...
Please read the following
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
568 Say, "O people of the book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Injeel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." For many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the ingrates.
569 "Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, those who are the followers of other religions, and the Christians -Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve."
I agree... Also, look at the verse that follows that one
We took an agreement with the children of Israel, and We sent to them messengers. Whenever a messenger came to them with what their souls do not desire, a group they denied, and a group they killed. And they thought there would be no test, so they became blinded and they became deaf; but G-d forgave them. Then they blinded and deafend many others, and G-d is knowing what they do. (570, 71)
Here, it implies that the Qur'aan is a test for the Jews, to see if they will maintain their covenant (or agreement) with G-d, or if they will stray. So, they are expected to follow the guidance of the Qur'aan, but ONLY THE GUIDANCE THAT DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH THE TORAH. Therefore, since the Qur'aan claims to confirm and support the Torah, then the Jews' responsibility is to continue upholding what was sent down to them (Torah). On matters that the Torah doesn't mention, they should turn to the Qur'aan. The Nazarenes are the same way in terms of following the guidance of the Enjeel. Nothing says they should forsake the Torah and Enjeel; rather it says the opposite...
Like I said, the Torah is a guidance for the Jews. The Enjeel is also a guidance for the Jews, but it's for those who accepted Jesus as their maschiach. The Qur'aan is for the non-Jews who didn't receive the message from any of the Jewish messengers, or the gentile nations. Those who already received G-d's messages are expected to uphold them... At least that's my take on the issue...
Peace,
Ahmad
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There is no such thing as Injil. It is only the Torah which is simply the instructions of YHVH to the Israelites to function as a nation and to represent God's will on Earth. Period.
There is no such thing as Nazarene should follow the Injil. This is propaganda targeted to hate the Jewish people.
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Peace Rami,
There is no such thing as Injil. It is only the Torah which is simply the instructions of YHVH to the Israelites to function as a nation and to represent God's will on Earth. Period.
There is no such thing as Nazarene should follow the Injil. This is propaganda targeted to hate the Jewish people.
This is a debatable argument. There was a group called the Nazarenes who actually followed the teachings of Rabbinic Judaism, yet they believed that Jesus was a maschiach. The Ebionites also believed in the teachings of Jesus, viewing him as a great teacher and rabbi, an enforcer of Rabbinical law and the Torah... What is your view of these groups? Both of them were Jews, and both followed the guidance of Torah throughout their lives. Yet they claim a book (possibly referred to as "Enjeel" was actually taught by Jesus, supporting the Torah. The Nazarenes alleged that this book was actually sent down to Jesus from G-d Himself, passed to him from Moses and Elijah. What do you think of this?
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Peace Rami,
This is a debatable argument. There was a group called the Nazarenes who actually followed the teachings of Rabbinic Judaism, yet they believed that Jesus was a maschiach. The Ebionites also believed in the teachings of Jesus, viewing him as a great teacher and rabbi, an enforcer of Rabbinical law and the Torah... What is your view of these groups? Both of them were Jews, and both followed the guidance of Torah throughout their lives. Yet they claim a book (possibly referred to as "Enjeel" was actually taught by Jesus, supporting the Torah. The Nazarenes alleged that this book was actually sent down to Jesus from G-d Himself, passed to him from Moses and Elijah. What do you think of this?
Actually these people were zealous for the law as they thought if they follow the law rigidly, it will hasten the messianic era. But Christianity and the New Testament overshadowed and suppressed this.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=knBfEh1HXLE&feature=channel_page
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrwkfOjUxww&feature=channel_pageHe confirms what you are saying. I agree with this.
If you cancel the Torah, what will the religion be??
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If you cancel the Torah, what will the religion be??
A lot more sensible. Yahweh has to be the most despotic and unpleasant character in all of literature. If I had to choose between hanging out with Satan and Yahweh, I'd choose Satan a million times over. He seems a lot more normal than Yahweh.
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A lot more sensible. Yahweh has to be the most despotic and unpleasant character in all of literature. If I had to choose between hanging out with Satan and Yahweh, I'd choose Satan a million times over. He seems a lot more normal than Yahweh.
rotfl
Not only the God of the OT is weird. His favorite followers are repulsive.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4H-iXgKkKY&feature=channel
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pobBAPaelo&feature=response_watchpeace
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A lot more sensible. Yahweh has to be the most despotic and unpleasant character in all of literature. If I had to choose between hanging out with Satan and Yahweh, I'd choose Satan a million times over. He seems a lot more normal than Yahweh.
Are you serious?! Have you read the Hebrew Bible (i.e. Tanakh)? The G-d "YHVH" in the Torah is the same as the G-d "Allah" in the Qur'aan. So, how can you reject "Yahveh" but accept "Allah"?
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Suppose you are a follower of the Gospel and there is a case of adultery...what will your judgement be???
That is simple. In the old testament she would be stoned to death. In the new testament (Gospels) she would be divorced. As adultery is one of the only offences Jesus says that divorce is allowed.
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Are you serious?! Have you read the Hebrew Bible (i.e. Tanakh)? The G-d "YHVH" in the Torah is the same as the G-d "Allah" in the Qur'aan. So, how can you reject "Yahveh" but accept "Allah"?
I've read quite a lot of the Bible and I don't like the god described in the Bible one bit. The god described in the Bible is the polar opposite of the god described in the quran. The god described in the quran is pure, respectable, reasonable and wise.
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I've read quite a lot of the Bible and I don't like the god described in the Bible one bit. The god described in the Bible is the polar opposite of the god described in the quran. The god described in the quran is pure, respectable, reasonable and wise.
God is described differently in the old testament than in the new testament. The old testament version of God that you are talking about comes from the Tanakh. In the new testament God is described as pure, respectable, reasonable and wise.
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I've read quite a lot of the Bible and I don't like the god described in the Bible one bit. The god described in the Bible is the polar opposite of the god described in the quran. The god described in the quran is pure, respectable, reasonable and wise.
hail Respect.
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Peace Supernaut,
I've read quite a lot of the Bible and I don't like the god described in the Bible one bit. The god described in the Bible is the polar opposite of the god described in the quran. The god described in the quran is pure, respectable, reasonable and wise.
This doesn't make any sense, and obviously you haven't done as much research on the God described throughout the Tanakh. All throughout the Hebrew Bible, God is also described as "pure, respectable, reasonable, and wise". How did you determine otherwise? Since you said that God in the Qur'aan is the polar opposite, then you're alleging that "YHVH" is filthy, unrespectable, unreasonable, and stupid?!
Peace John,
God is described differently in the old testament than in the new testament. The old testament version of God that you are talking about comes from the Tanakh. In the new testament God is described as pure, respectable, reasonable and wise.
This is not true, and He is described the same way throughout the scriptures. In the "new testament", He is described as being 'one-of-three' and possessing offspring (a literal son). This is hardly how He's described anywhere else... The Tanakh gives an account of the history of the Jews, while the Qur'aan strictly gives guidance and instruction. In both writings, though, God is described the same way, just in different circumstances. That's one of the ways the Qur'aan CONFIRMS the Torah...
Peace,
Ahmad
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This doesn't make any sense, and obviously you haven't done as much research on the God described throughout the Tanakh. All throughout the Hebrew Bible, God is also described as "pure, respectable, reasonable, and wise". How did you determine otherwise? Since you said that God in the Qur'aan is the polar opposite, then you're alleging that "YHVH" is filthy, unrespectable, unreasonable, and stupid?!
No, what really doesn't make any sense is your amazing ability to ignore many passages from the Bible which clearly depict Yahweh as "filthy, unrespectable, unreasonable and stupid". Yahweh commands parents to kill their kids if they cuss them, to marry rape victims to their assailants, to kill gay men, to sacrifice firstborns to him and so on. Yahweh comes off as a cantankerous kid who has the moral capacity of a teaspoon! And he isn't particularly smart either. He doesn't even know that he made the sun before he made plants and he forgot that the world is actually 13 billion years old and not 6,000 years old. This is why I say that the resplendent god described in the quran is the polar opposite of Yahweh. Oh and the god described in the quran isn't the same god that Sunnis, Shias, and Khalifites serve. The god of the sectarians is more like Yahweh than the god that gave us the quran.
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Peace John,
This is not true, and He is described the same way throughout the scriptures. In the "new testament", He is described as being 'one-of-three' and possessing offspring (a literal son). This is hardly how He's described anywhere else... The Tanakh gives an account of the history of the Jews, while the Qur'aan strictly gives guidance and instruction. In both writings, though, God is described the same way, just in different circumstances. That's one of the ways the Qur'aan CONFIRMS the Torah...
Peace,
Ahmad
Well actually it is true. In the old testament he commands Joshua to kill and wipe-out whole nations. In the new testament he is the God of love. No where in the new testament does it say God is one of three. It only says there is only one God, it was the early Catholic church that made God one of three (the trinity).
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No, what really doesn't make any sense is your amazing ability to ignore many passages from the Bible which clearly depict Yahweh as "filthy, unrespectable, unreasonable and stupid". Yahweh commands parents to kill their kids if they cuss them, to marry rape victims to their assailants, to kill gay men, to sacrifice firstborns to him and so on. Yahweh comes off as a cantankerous kid who has the moral capacity of a teaspoon! And he isn't particularly smart either. He doesn't even know that he made the sun before he made plants and he forgot that the world is actually 13 billion years old and not 6,000 years old. This is why I say that the resplendent god described in the quran is the polar opposite of Yahweh. Oh and the god described in the quran isn't the same god that Sunnis, Shias, and Khalifites serve. The god of the sectarians is more like Yahweh than the god that gave us the quran.
Exactly radical Islam is the Islamic version of the Torah.
Circumcision, stoning, beards, killing apostates etc.
And the Judeochristians mock this. I call it the 'Abrahamic anomaly'.
Radical muslims bash the Torah but they follow its teaching and the Judeochristians bash radical Islam for following the teachings of their own Bible.
Crazy world. Right?
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No, what really doesn't make any sense is your amazing ability to ignore many passages from the Bible which clearly depict Yahweh as "filthy, unrespectable, unreasonable and stupid". Yahweh commands parents to kill their kids if they cuss them, to marry rape victims to their assailants, to kill gay men, to sacrifice firstborns to him and so on. Yahweh comes off as a cantankerous kid who has the moral capacity of a teaspoon! And he isn't particularly smart either. He doesn't even know that he made the sun before he made plants and he forgot that the world is actually 13 billion years old and not 6,000 years old. This is why I say that the resplendent god described in the quran is the polar opposite of Yahweh.
I thought you said you've read the Hebrew Bible? Obviously not, buddy... The Torah repeatedly refers to God's mercy, compassion, love, protection, deliverance, and forgiveness of the children of Israel. In fact, Numbers 1418 plainly says that God is "slow to anger, great in love, and forgiving of sin and rebellion..." The Jews even recite Psalm 145 three times a day, everyday, in dedication to their God. That passage, recorded in the Hebrew Tanakh, says
"Hashem is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and great in kindliness. Hashem is good to all, His mercies are on all His creatures... Hashem supports all the fallen, and straightens all the bent. The eyes of all look to You with hope, and You give them their food in its proper time. You open Your Hand, and satisfy the desire of every living thing. Righteous is Hashem in all His ways, and magnanimous in all His deeds. Hashem is close to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him sincerely..."
Why would the people recite this three times a day to a merciless, hostile, unjust, stupid god? Does this make sense to you?! Why are you speaking falsely against God?
The God of the Jews commands them in the Torah to, in certain circumstances, kill their children if they curse God. In comparison, though, a messenger sent to Moses actually kills a young child, saying that the child would LATER become a burden to his parents. This isn't the same thing?! There's nothing in the Torah that instructs rape victims to marry their assailants, period; that's an outright LIE. God says that gay men should be put to death in the Torah. In comparison, God condemns the homosexuality of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and He actually sends down fire from the sky to burn them up, tormenting them until they die miserable deaths! This isn't the same idea to you either?! And it's another LIE alleging that God told the people to sacrifice their sons to Him, since He directly condemns this practice in the Torah and throughout the Tanakh... Regarding Him stating that the world is "6000 years old", where is your proof of that claim? The Qur'aan says the EXACT SAME THING, plainly stating that God created the entire universe in six days, an idea first stated in Judaism...
On an even more serious note, He tells the people in the Torah that they should be stoned (or killed) for committing idolatry. In the Qur'aan, however, it says that God will not only punish them when they commit the action, but He will BURN THEM ETERNALLY IN HELL for doing so; in accordance with this, the Qur'aan says that God doesn't forgive idolatry, at all. If you're guilty of it, you're doomed to suffer torment, regardless of the other good things you do or may have done throughout your life... So, how are these "gods" different? If you really want to consider them as different deities, then the God of the Torah seems a whole lot more merciful than the Qur'aanic God. In reality, though, He is one God, and the Lord of the Jews and the Lord of the "muslimoon"/Submitters is the SAME GOD...
If you really want to compare the personality of God in the Qur'aan versus His personality in the Torah, then you need to do more Bible research... The god described in the "new testament" is not even in question, since those writings claim that he "is" love, further implying that he forgives everyone for everything. Modern traditional Christians even allege that their god will forgive all their sins, regardless of what they do, as long as they accept Jesus as their maschiach, and their "lord and savior". He only requires faith, and action is completely unnecessary. This deity is NOT in harmony with the Supreme God of the Torah or the Qur'aan. So, we don't even need to discuss this matter at all...