Several Questions On Ramadan

Elena

Peace SwedenMajidah, all,

I think this was asked before but I don't know if it was answered and I don't know in which thread it was.

How do muslims who live in Northern Europe, say Norway and Sweden, organise the fast? In summer there is no night, in winter there is no day, more in the extreme North, but it also happens in the south part, I experienced it.

If I am right about fasting, it is to control the body + to feel the suffering of the poor + to be in contact with God more frequently, with the aim of becoming better person. I suppose day and night are not severe rules.

marie

Peace all,

Peace SwedenMajidah, all,
How do muslims who live in Northern Europe, say Norway and Sweden, organise the fast? In summer there is no night, in winter there is no day, more in the extreme North, but it also happens in the south part, I experienced it.

O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you perhaps you may be righteous.

In 2187, Allah explains us how to fast, I think it is valid for all people whatever our geographical situation.

If we cannot apply it for certain areas of our sphere during seasons of winter and summer, perhaps this is the proof that the month of ramadan is neither in winter nor in summer but in other season.

It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.

We know the timing of ?alhajj? is in the months (restricted months) which have been appointed (2197).

If the four restricted months correspond to the season of autumn in order to preserve wildlife in the northern hemisphere, we read in chapter 106 that Quraysh accomplish their journey in winter and summer; they don?t travel during the season of autumn which could correspond to the period of the ramadan and alhajj (the four restricted months) and where they receive "alhujjaj / Pilgrims" (919).

Any comments appreciated

Marie

(edited to include the green text)

SwedenMajidah

Salaam,

I still don't get it!

I live in South of Sweden and I don't know when the month of Ramadhan is and if it changes from a year to another.

So I still fast the month my sunni husband does.

I feel so alone here nobody share my understandings of Islam.

Help!!!

Peace
Sis Majidah

Peace all,

Peace SwedenMajidah, all,
How do muslims who live in Northern Europe, say Norway and Sweden, organise the fast? In summer there is no night, in winter there is no day, more in the extreme North, but it also happens in the south part, I experienced it.

O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you perhaps you may be righteous.

In 2187, Allah explains us how to fast, I think it is valid for all people whatever our geographical situation.

If we cannot apply it for certain areas of our sphere during seasons of winter and summer, perhaps this is the proof that the month of ramadan is neither in winter nor in summer but in other season.

It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.

We know the timing of ?alhajj? is in the months (restricted months) which have been appointed (2197).

If the four restricted months correspond to the season of autumn in order to preserve wildlife in the northern hemisphere, we read in chapter 106 that Quraysh accomplish their journey in winter and summer; they don?t travel during the season of autumn which could correspond to the period of the ramadan and alhajj (the four restricted months) and where they receive "alhujjaj / Pilgrims" (919).

Any comments appreciated

Marie

(edited to include the green text)

SwedenMajidah

Salaam,

I have just read that article and i the end of the article there was a sample calendar and it shows that the first day of the restricted months begins this year 2004 at 14th October.

So should we fast ten days from that date!???

Peace
Sis Majidah

Peace Idris,

Do you read this article ?

If you already read it, I would like to know what do you think?

Peace

Marie

peace,

When do you think it is?
Should we fast the whole month? If not, then how long should we fast?
If we shouldn't fast the whole month when are the particular days of the month we should fast?

give me examples from the Reading of why you support your answer

peace

marie

Salam Sister Majidah,

I feel so alone here nobody share my understandings of Islam.

Allah guides who seek the truth and trust Him )

Salaam,

I have just read that article and i the end of the article there was a sample calendar and it shows that the first day of the restricted months begins this year 2004 at 14th October.

So should we fast ten days from that date!???

Peace
Sis Majidah

According to our understanding of the month of ramadan in the light of the quran, my husband and me, we will begin Siyam on October 15th (after new moon october 14th) during 10 days Inshaa Allah.

In early autumn each years Inshaa Allah.

France is not very far from Sweden )

May Allah guide us to the straight path.

Peace

Marie

SwedenMajidah

Salaam Sister Marie,

So you say that you will begin your fast at October 15th this year!?

But what about next year?

And is this date same for all countries?

I know that France isn't so far away from Sweden, actually I have been there once )

Peace Sis Majidah

Salam Sister Majidah,

I feel so alone here nobody share my understandings of Islam.

Allah guides who seek the truth and trust Him )

Salaam,

I have just read that article and i the end of the article there was a sample calendar and it shows that the first day of the restricted months begins this year 2004 at 14th October.

So should we fast ten days from that date!???

Peace
Sis Majidah

According to our understanding of the month of ramadan in the light of the quran, my husband and me, we will begin Siyam on October 15th (after new moon october 14th) during 10 days Inshaa Allah.

In early autumn each years Inshaa Allah.

France is not very far from Sweden )

May Allah guide us to the straight path.

Peace

Marie

marie

Peace sister Majidah,

Salaam Sister Marie,

So you say that you will begin your fast at October 15th this year!?

But what about next year?

4rd October 2005

Towards 20th September 2006

August 2007--> 12th Month,

if the new moon appears before the autumn equinox, then that will be the time to insert a 13th month. This insertion is done 7 times every 19 solar years to ensure an alignment of the seasons.

and so on

And is this date same for all countries?

If I'm not wrong, This is the same date +/- according to the appearance of new moon for the northern hemisphere.

Allah knows best

Peace

Marie

SwedenMajidah

Peace be upon you sister Marie,

Thank You very much for the info dear sister.

I hope although that Free-Minds.org will have a calendar to view on their webpage.

Peace
Sis Majidah

marie

Peace be upon you sister Majidah,

Peace be upon you sister Marie,

Thank You very much for the info dear sister.

Not at all

I hope although that Free-Minds.org will have a calendar to view on their webpage.

Inshaa Allah

May Allah guide us to the straight path

Peace

Marie

unknownuser

salam

i read that article by layth

that you gave the link to

regarding this article i quote

Thus it is the 1st month of the year that comes immediately after the Autumn Equinox (which is also the 1st of the 'restricted' months) in which fasting has been decreed

so the Autumn Equinox is
September 22 in 2004),

according to http//www.infoplease.com/spot/equinox1.html

so would that make ramadhan oct 1st? not oct 14th? how did you come to the conclusion it is oct 14th?

amanda

marie

Peace sister Amanda,

The calendar is based on the appearance of new moon

Monday, 16th August 2004------->12th Month

if the new moon appears before the autumn equinox, then that will be the time to insert a 13th month. This insertion is done 7 times every 19 solar years to ensure an alignment of the seasons.

This is the case for 2004, consequently, the thirteenth month is added

Tuesday, 14th September 2004---->13th Month

That make Thursday, 14th October 2004 the 1st Month of the year. October fourteen is the day of full moon. The new moon begins on October fifteen which is the first day of the first month.

I hope this helps

Marie

Layth

Peace Amanda,

Thus it is the 1st month of the year that comes immediately after the Autumn Equinox (which is also the 1st of the 'restricted' months) in which fasting has been decreed

so the Autumn Equinox is
September 22 in 2004),

according to http//www.infoplease.com/spot/equinox1.html

so would that make ramadhan oct 1st? not oct 14th? how did you come to the conclusion it is oct 14th?

We are following the "lunar" months in a solar year. That makes the 1st month aftre the equinox to be October 14/15 and not October 1st (which is an arbitrary calendar month).

Marie Wrote

That make Thursday, 14th October 2004 the 1st Month of the year. October fourteen is the day of full moon. The new moon begins on October fifteen which is the first day of the first month.

The last day of the moon is not a full moon (full moon only occurs in the middle of the month). Thus the moon begins invisible, then the crescent grows, then it becomes a fullmoon, then it goes back to crescent, then invisible.

marie

Peace Layth,

The two phases of moon can be considered

The black moon/invisible
2)The white moon /visible

Marie

Ansar

Salaam,

I still don't get it!

I live in South of Sweden and I don't know when the month of Ramadhan is and if it changes from a year to another.

So I still fast the month my sunni husband does.

I feel so alone here nobody share my understandings of Islam.

Help!!!

Sister, this is what happens if you join a sect of not even 1000 people. You have chosen an other path which is different of the believers, this sect never appeared in islamic history

And whoso opposeth the messenger after the guidance (of Allah) hath been manifested unto him, and followeth other than the believer's way, We appoint for him that unto which he himself hath turned, and expose him unto hell - a hapless journey's end!

Join the muslims, and inshaAllah things will brighten up for you.

marie

Your Lord is fully aware of who strays from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.
Inna rabbaka huwa aAAlamu man yadilluAAan sabeelihi wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena

marie

Peace Sister Majidah,

Salaam,

I have just read that article and i the end of the article there was a sample calendar and it shows that the first day of the restricted months begins this year 2004 at 14th October.

So should we fast ten days from that date!???

Peace
Sis Majidah

According to our understanding of the month of ramadan in the light of the quran, my husband and me, we will begin Siyam on October 15th (after new moon october 14th) during 10 days Inshaa Allah.

In early autumn each years Inshaa Allah.

I revised my view about the verses 2184-185, Allah specifies every time the number of days of abstinence 3 days (589), 10 days (2196), two months (492, 584).

There is no doubt for me, we should abstain one lunar month which is the month of ramadhan and the verse 2185 is clear

Therefore, whoever of you can observe the season, then let him abstainit

i.e. we have to abstain the lunar month of ramadhan

A lunar month = counted days and it seems coherent.

Allah knows best

Marie

Elke

Salam Marie and everybody else,

I?m very interested by your discussion of articles about fasting. Have been fasting for the nearly the last 20 years for a month (mostly consecutive) each year but it has always been very tough for me.

I already wondered about how I could manage Ramadan during the hot month and thought about making it up in winter?

Then I came across your site and Layth article. I?m not yet convinced about all his ideas, even though I?d like to?but still searching. My problem being, like for so many of us, my not so good Arabic?

Marie, you say that Allah always fixes the days of fasting, and for the verses you quote you are absolutely right (3 days, 3+7, 2 month). So why then did he not say directly that we shall fast for one month as he does in the other verses?
I think it also significant, that he uses the expression ?ayyam madoutat?, which actually I think cannot be the ?fixed days? ? but rather a ?few days?.

See 2203 Remember God for ?ayyam madoutat?, if you hurry to do two days there is no sin on you?.

God uses the expression ?ayyam madoutat?, and the expression cannot mean the fixed days in this context, but really rather a few days, because the days are not fixed ?.God leaves it to the convenience of the believer.

Also, the only times God tells us to fast long periods ? it is for killing a believer and the famous ?she became like my mother to me? for estranged wife - 2 months. The repentance for a broken oath is already only three days, fasting instead of donation during hajj 3+7=10.

I?d rather tend to think that we should fast a not specified number of days during Ramadan ? because God leaves it to our convenience to do the best we can do. He knows that for some of us fasting is easy, for others difficult.

The one question remaining for me concerning the length of the fast is what exactly means ?falyasumhu?. Is it 100% ?shall fast it? or could it be ?shall fast in it? which would change the sense ? And if it is ?fast it?, would it forcibly mean fast the whole of it ? Here I call on those of you, better armed in Arabic, to help.

May God guide us
Elke

marie

Salam Elke,

First of all, you are welcome and thank you for your contribution.

Marie, you say that Allah always fixes the days of fasting, and for the verses you quote you are absolutely right (3 days, 3+7, 2 month). So why then did he not say directly that we shall fast for one month as he does in the other verses?

I wondered the same question, I think Allah doesn't let us to guess the length of abstinence. The response is in the quran.

I think it also significant, that he uses the expression ?ayyam madoutat?, which actually I think cannot be the ?fixed days? ? but rather a ?few days?.

I prefer "counted days" than "few days", the literal translation "word for word" is better.

See 2203 Remember God for ?ayyam madoutat?, if you hurry to do two days there is no sin on you?.

Exact.

God uses the expression ?ayyam madoutat?, and the expression cannot mean the fixed days in this context, but really rather a few days, because the days are not fixed ?.God leaves it to the convenience of the believer.

Ok, but Allah fixes the minimum length and according Layth's article on Alhajj, the number of days = 2 or 3 days.

Of course we can Remember Allah for more than 3 days.
Please verify for yourself.

I?d rather tend to think that we should fast a not specified number of days during Ramadan ? because God leaves it to our convenience to do the best we can do. He knows that for some of us fasting is easy, for others difficult.

This is a plausible possibility, but I think Allah fixes "counted days" in 2185

Therefore, whoever of you can observe the month i.e, the lunar month of ramadhan, then let him abstain it and "hu/it" in "falyasumhu" refers to the lunar month of ramadhan, it seems obvious for me.

The counted days corresponds to the lunar month of ramadhan.
maAAdoodat (counted) and AAiddat (the count) doesn't mean especially Few, this verse 654 is a good example "their interim/AAiddatuhunna shall be three months"

The word alAAiddata "walitukmiloo alAAiddata/and so that you may complete the count" in 2185 refers to a specific and one month; the lunar month of ramadhan

The one question remaining for me concerning the length of the fast is what exactly means ?falyasumhu?. Is it 100% ?shall fast it? or could it be ?shall fast in it? which would change the sense ? And if it is ?fast it?, would it forcibly mean fast the whole of it ? Here I call on those of you, better armed in Arabic, to help.

The language in the quran is precise, I consider this translation ?shall fast it? more accurate than ?shall fast in it?

If Allah leaves it to our convenience to do the best we can do, we should read "falyasum feehi/shall fast therein" instead of "falyasumhu/shall fast it"

Insha'Allah, I will find another example in the quran to light up this situation.

Best regards

Marie

marie

Salam Elke, all

The one question remaining for me concerning the length of the fast is what exactly means ?falyasumhu?. Is it 100% ?shall fast it? or could it be ?shall fast in it? which would change the sense ? And if it is ?fast it?, would it forcibly mean fast the whole of it ? Here I call on those of you, better armed in Arabic, to help.

The language in the quran is precise, I consider this translation ?shall fast it? more accurate than ?shall fast in it?

If Allah leaves it to our convenience to do the best we can do, we should read "falyasum feehi/shall fast therein" instead of "falyasumhu/shall fast it"

Insha'Allah, I will find another example in the quran to light up this situation.

I consider "let him abstain it more accurate than"..abstain therein or in it" because we should read "falyasum feehi" instead of "falyasumhu" in the same way for the following verse

The Pilgrimage is in the months which have been appointed. So whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding.

Alhajju ashhurun maAAloomatun faman farada feehinna alhajja fala rafathawala fusooqa wala jidala fee alhajjiwama tafAAaloo min khayrin yaAAlamhu Allahuwatazawwadoo fa-inna khayra alzzadi alttaqwawaittaqooni ya olee al-albabi

From this sentence "faman farada feehinna alhajja"we could say "faman hajjafeehinna /So whosoever perform the Pilgrimage in them "

From the verse above, it is clear that Allah leaves it to our convenience to choose in which lunar month to perform Alhajj, we are free to do it at any moment during the lunar month we choosed.

Allah knows best

Marie

Elke

Salam Marie and thank you,

you're analyse of "falsayumhu" seems corrects to me, especially with the other example you gave me. So "fast" or rather "abstain it" is actually the way it should be read, which really refers rather to the month than the counted days - but still, the verse is less clear to me than others dealing with fasting.

Now, concerning "ayyam madoudat", I found another occurence in 324 of disbelievers thinking that they wont taste hell except "a few days / the counted days"? Even though the root word refers to counting, here "counted" seems less appropriate as translation. May be we should search more into the use throughout quran of the term counted. Are there other, more appropriate words used to say few ?

I'll search on my own, but would very much appreciate help. Things would go much faster as right now I've got to get back to my work which I neglected a little since discovering your site !

Ok, hear from you soon inchallah.
Elke