Christians.
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355 God said, "O Jesus, I will terminate your life, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who rejected, until the day of Resurrection; then to Me is your return so I will judge between all of you in what you were disputing."
I always think it is better to ask three times than go on one's own certainty and be misguided.. so here is my question.
If one followed Jesus, believing in his message and worshipping God alone (that is to say non-trinitarians as well as those who say he was just a mighty messenger of God) in today's time, could we not say they are among the righteous and should expect to see such in Jannah?
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Of couse!
See 262
peace
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many who I have spoken with (granted were Sunnis) point out in most translations the term is "believed" past tense.
meaning, those who believed before Muhammad, pbuh, would be saved and they also point out that the only faith now acceptable since then and now is the Qur'an and Muhammad as prophet.
this was my confusion, please comment brother.
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many who I have spoken with (granted were Sunnis) point out in most translations the term is "believed" past tense.
meaning, those who believed before Muhammad, pbuh, would be saved and they also point out that the only faith now acceptable since then and now is the Qur'an and Muhammad as prophet.
this was my confusion, please comment brother.
tomorrow, GW
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many who I have spoken with (granted were Sunnis) point out in most translations the term is "believed" past tense.
meaning, those who believed before Muhammad, pbuh, would be saved and they also point out that the only faith now acceptable since then and now is the Qur'an and Muhammad as prophet.
this was my confusion, please comment brother.
Peace
6Trnslations using present time.
Peace -
um.. I mean no disrespect to those who like Khalifa.. yet, I recall in the news as I have stayed in Phoenix, Arizona.. and he was killed in Tucson (a city closeby)
"In October, 1979, Khalifa was accused of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and sexual contact with a minor. The accuser, a 16-year-old-girl, testified at a hearing that Khalifa sexually molested her while recruiting her for research on the human aura."
And his followers called him a messenger, when Muhammad was the last and did he ever tell them to not do this or refute them? As well as study into this new-age nonsense of the aura?
I could be mistaken, but I have never heard any good thing about him.
Btw, I was never Sunni or Shia. I reverted to being a Muslim, then on my own study came to the truth of Qur'an alone.
Let those who like 19, like it. Let those who like Khalifa, like him. Me personally, I am happy with just the Qur'an as it is.
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many who I have spoken with (granted were Sunnis) point out in most translations the term is "believed" past tense.
meaning, those who believed before Muhammad, pbuh, would be saved and they also point out that the only faith now acceptable since then and now is the Qur'an and Muhammad as prophet.
this was my confusion, please comment brother.
I am not quite sure why it would be considered that I as a Christian am an unbeliever
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Peace
um.. I mean no disrespect to those who like Khalifa.. yet, I recall in the news as I have stayed in Phoenix, Arizona.. and he was killed in Tucson (a city closeby)
"In October, 1979, Khalifa was accused of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and sexual contact with a minor. The accuser, a 16-year-old-girl, testified at a hearing that Khalifa sexually molested her while recruiting her for research on the human aura."
And his followers called him a messenger, when Muhammad was the last and did he ever tell them to not do this or refute them? As well as study into this new-age nonsense of the aura?
I could be mistaken, but I have never heard any good thing about him.
Btw, I was never Sunni or Shia. I reverted to being a Muslim, then on my own study came to the truth of Qur'an alone.
Let those who like 19, like it. Let those who like Khalifa, like him. Me personally, I am happy with just the Qur'an as it is.
Let's not discuss about Rashad Khalifa, but I just want to clarify a few things
- Muhammad was NOT the last messenger, contrary to popular belief.
3340 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.
Please show me a verse which suggests that Muhammad was the last messenger.
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Yes, he was ACCUSED of rape/sexual molestation, HOWEVER, he was found innocent.
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Of course you dont hear good things about him, because he advocated the following of the QURAN ALONE and the worshipping of GOD ALONE. He rejected the Sunni/Shia salat and said it was shirk.
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What is new-age nonsene of the aura?
Rashad Khalifa was savagely assassinated by terrorist of the the group "al-Furqan" closely linked to the Al-Qaeda terrorist group. It is counted as the first terrorist act (of al qaeda) on America.
- Muhammad was NOT the last messenger, contrary to popular belief.
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I am not quite sure why it would be considered that I as a Christian am an unbeliever
This is absolutely false. All non-trinitarian Christians who worship God ALONE will attain salvation and they are NOT considered rejectors (or as you call it "unbelievers".
262 Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes/Christians, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform/righteous deeds, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
364 Say, "O people of the book, let us come to a common statement between us and between you; that we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as lords beside God." If they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we have submitted."
3122 Anyone who submits himself completely to God, while he is righteous, then he has taken hold of the strongest bond. To God all matters will return.
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This is absolutely false. All non-trinitarian Christians who worship God ALONE will attain salvation and they are NOT considered rejectors (or as you call it "unbelievers".
262 Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes/Christians, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform/righteous deeds, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
364 Say, "O people of the book, let us come to a common statement between us and between you; that we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as lords beside God." If they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we have submitted."
3122 Anyone who submits himself completely to God, while he is righteous, then he has taken hold of the strongest bond. To God all matters will return.
Now that's a relief !!!!!
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Now that's a relief !!!!!
laugh
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Now that's a relief !!!!!
yes yay yay
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Asalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh
I am troubled now, akhi progressive.
One of my favorite things about Islam, is where it says "this day we have perfected your religion, Islam." Meaning to me, Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, was the last and final messenger presenting to us the perfect religion before Allah, Subhana Wa Ta'Ala, and he would only accept strict monotheism (tawheed) from his creation. ( Which could include monotheistic Christians as we said or monotheistic Jews. )
Yet you are telling me the beloved prophet was not the seal and final? Please present your daleel for this, please.
This could say to me, any persuasive person with great oratory skills or the 'cult of personality' could sweep in and say he is another messenger and wipe clean chunks of the Qur'an or their very meaning. This makes it all topsy-turvy for me.
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Peace
Asalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh
I am troubled now, akhi progressive.
One of my favorite things about Islam, is where it says "this day we have perfected your religion, Islam." Meaning to me, Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, was the last and final messenger presenting to us the perfect religion before Allah, Subhana Wa Ta'Ala, and he would only accept strict monotheism (tawheed) from his creation. ( Which could include monotheistic Christians as we said or monotheistic Jews. )
Yet you are telling me the beloved prophet was not the seal and final? Please present your daleel for this, please.
This could say to me, any persuasive person with great oratory skills or the 'cult of personality' could sweep in and say he is another messenger and wipe clean chunks of the Qur'an or their very meaning. This makes it all topsy-turvy for me.
I have given you my proof. Give me a verse which says "Muhammad is the final messenger". Can you give me just 1? That's all I'm asking for.
BTW I'd appreciate if you speak English throughout your whole post and/or translate the arabic parts.
Daleel?I'm afraid you strated a big-time discussion now. Let's keep it short.
Look at this verse
381 God took a covenant from the prophets (Muhammad, Abraham, etc.) "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
So clearly, there is/was a messenger AFTER Muhammad.
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So, you are saying I must say "Peace and Blessings" instead of the language of arabic? That seems rather rude and disrespectful.
You wish for me to give my proof? (daleel) sure..
Muhsin Khan Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever AllAware of everything.
Yusuf Ali Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Pickthal Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
Transliteration M Kna Muammadun 'Ab 'Aadin Min Rijlikum Wa Lakin Rasla Allhi Wa Khtama An-Nabyna Wa Kna Allhu Bikulli Shay'in `Alman
Sahih International Muammad is not the father of one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
notice the part in arabic "Khtama An-Nabyna".. last and final prophet.
If you claim this is a mistranslation, you are not refuting me.. but four who know arabic backwards and forwards as I understand those men to be.
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Peace
So, you are saying I must say "Peace and Blessings" instead of the language of arabic? That seems rather rude and disrespectful.
Easy, easy.. I dont want to make a fight out of this D
I have no problem with that. Remember that I hilighted "daleel". I have no problem with you saying "Salamun alaykum wa barakatuh". But do you expect me to know that "daleel" means proof? (I thought only "bayyina" means "proof".)
Muhsin Khan Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever AllAware of everything.
Yusuf Ali Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Pickthal Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
Transliteration M Kna Muammadun 'Ab 'Aadin Min Rijlikum Wa Lakin Rasla Allhi Wa Khtama An-Nabyna Wa Kna Allhu Bikulli Shay'in `Alman
Sahih International Muammad is not the father of one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
notice the part in arabic "Khtama An-Nabyna".. last and final prophet.
This is like the translation that I quoted
3340 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.
Where does it say "last messenger"?
Any "daleel"? DPeace be upon you peace
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In regards to your using something like my verses used.. "like" does not mean the same. oranges taste like other citrus fruits, but are not oranges.
please re-read. how I used the arabic ""Khtama An-Nabyna".. last and final prophet.
secondly, Sahih International is considered by many to be the most fluent in english and I use it on occasion myself, yet to be fair I also posted other translations which all say the same thing.
Muhsin Khan but he is the Messenger of Allah and * the last (end) of the Prophets. *
Yusuf Ali but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the * Seal of the Prophets *
Pickthal but he is the messenger of Allah and the * Seal of the Prophets; *
Transliteration * Wa Khtama An-Nabyna *
Sahih International but the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
Why do I like Seal as a word so much? As a native english speaker, as well as a fan of word play.. I see seal to be used in english phraseology to mean thus
When someone would finish writing a scroll in medieval england, they would seal the document. That way, if the wax seal was broken they knew it had been tampered with. This mean, a sealed document was finished and done.. not to be edited in any manner.
If Muhammad was the seal, as these translations say, he was meant to be the last.. the scrolls of prophethood were sealed with his life.
I do not see how you are getting contrary ideas. However, I respect your right to have another opinion and this is 'free-minds' after all. So, do not think I am upset with you personally.
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In regards to your using something like my verses used.. "like" does not mean the same. oranges taste like other citrus fruits, but are not oranges.
please re-read. how I used the arabic ""Khtama An-Nabyna".. last and final prophet.
secondly, Sahih International is considered by many to be the most fluent in english and I use it on occasion myself, yet to be fair I also posted other translations which all say the same thing.
Muhsin Khan but he is the Messenger of Allah and * the last (end) of the Prophets. *
Yusuf Ali but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the * Seal of the Prophets *
Pickthal but he is the messenger of Allah and the * Seal of the Prophets; *
Transliteration * Wa Khtama An-Nabyna *
I agree with you 100% in regards to Muhammad having been the final PROPHET, but NOT the final MESSENGER. Please read the verse very carefully. Perhaps you will see what I am getting at.
I think your misunderstanding occured/is due to your confusing/equating "prophet" and "messenger", while they CLAERLY are NOT THE SAME THING as evidenced by that verse.
I hope you understand this. Please read the verse again.
BTW what do you mean with "like..."?
Peace
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I did a quick search on the internet for articles clearing the difference between Messengers and Prophets.
I admit my error and thank you for your patience.
However, it still complicates matters for me. I am a 'free/open' mind to a point, but I am very much a fan of defined roles, rules and expectations in a religion.
Muhammad, pbuh, is Allah's last Prophet then.
Is a messenger then simply anyone who says "worship God alone and forsake evil" ? Seems we are all messengers if that is so.
If you do not mind furthering this with me, I would appreciate it.
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I agree with you 100% in regards to Muhammad having been the final PROPHET, but NOT the final MESSENGER. Please read the verse very carefully. Perhaps you will see what I am getting at.
I think your misunderstanding occured/is due to your confusing/equating "prophet" and "messenger", while they CLAERLY are NOT THE SAME THING as evidenced by that verse.
I hope you understand this. Please read the verse again.
BTW what do you mean with "like..."?
this is already being discussed here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596976.0