Resolving apparent contradictions in the Quran
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Peace progressive
You are misunderstanding the "apparent" contradictions I am referring to. The example I gave initially is
In 2219 we find that we should spend that which is beyond our needs, while we have inheritance laws that determine how to divide the estate if there is no will. How do we distribute that which we don't have?I'll deal with that tomorrow, GW.
Please let me know why you are insisting that sadqah refers only to optional charity when I have suppliedc ample proof from the quran that the concept has been made obligatory. Also, why are you insisting that it means charity when the quranic concept is obviously much wider?
Different kinds of Arabs... number 1 - the bad Arabs
997 The Arabs are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent down upon His messenger. God is Knower, Wise.
998 From the Arabs are some who look upon what they spend as a fine, and wait for disasters to befall you. They will have the evil disasters, and God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
Number 2 - the good Arabs
999 From the Arabs there is he who acknowledges God and the Last day, and considers his spending as a means towards God, and the support of the messenger. It indeed makes them closer. God will admit them in His mercy; God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
9100 The pioneers of the emigrants and the supporters, and those who followed them in kindness; God has accepted them, and they have accepted Him; and He prepared for them gardens with rivers flowing beneath in which they will abide eternally. Such is the great success.
But
9101 Among the Arabs around you are hypocrites, as well as from the city people; they are audacious in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice, then they will be returned to a great punishment.
Those who repent
9102 Others who have acknowledged their sins, they have mixed good work with bad. Perhaps God will pardon them. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
In order for their sins to be wiped clean, they should pay an expiation/redemption charity (sadaqah), which the Prophet should take from them, to purify them...
9103 Take from their money a charity to purify them and improve them with it, and support them. Your support is tranquility for them; and God is Hearer, Knower.
Peace
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Peace progressive
Different kinds of Arabs... number 1 - the bad Arabs
997 The Arabs are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent down upon His messenger. God is Knower, Wise.
998 From the Arabs are some who look upon what they spend as a fine, and wait for disasters to befall you. They will have the evil disasters, and God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
Number 2 - the good Arabs
999 From the Arabs there is he who acknowledges God and the Last day, and considers his spending as a means towards God, and the support of the messenger. It indeed makes them closer. God will admit them in His mercy; God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
9100 The pioneers of the emigrants and the supporters, and those who followed them in kindness; God has accepted them, and they have accepted Him; and He prepared for them gardens with rivers flowing beneath in which they will abide eternally. Such is the great success.
But
9101 Among the Arabs around you are hypocrites, as well as from the city people; they are audacious in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice, then they will be returned to a great punishment.
Those who repent
9102 Others who have acknowledged their sins, they have mixed good work with bad. Perhaps God will pardon them. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
In order for their sins to be wiped clean, they should pay an expiation/redemption charity (sadaqah), which the Prophet should take from them, to purify them...
9103 Take from their money a charity to purify them and improve them with it, and support them. Your support is tranquility for them; and God is Hearer, Knower.
I don't understand why you are not looking at all the occurrences of the root "sad-daal-qaf" in order to define the concept. What do you think of the concept of tasreef?
In any case, 9103 is saying to take as a matter of right ( the right of the community against whom they have transgressed). So whether this right is called charity or something else, linguistically & logically through tasreef, it is a right. I am not disputing that sadaqah is used as an expiation or redemption. I am saying that the meaning is much broader.
Imraan
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In any case, 9103 is saying to take as a matter of right ( the right of the community against whom they have transgressed). So whether this right is called charity or something else, linguistically & logically through tasreef, it is a right. I am not disputing that sadaqah is used as an expiation or redemption. I am saying that the meaning is much broader.
9103 is talking about the Arabs who have done both good and bad deeds. To remove their sins/reform themselves, they should pay "sadaqah" - a charity for redemption/expiation.
In the "Spoils of War" thread you have said
WOMEN ARE NOT OWNED BY MEN JUST BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED A GIFT (NAHLA) FROM THE MAN AS IS THEIR RIGHT (SADAQAH)
Can you quote the verse?
Have you looked at 960? Here sadqah is made fard (obligatory).
Please read 9103 in context. You might see that it is not obligatory and only for expiation/redemption.
Zakat is obligatory.Peace
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Peace Mazhar
in 1326, we find that Allah ensures that people receive in different measures according to the laws He has put in place. The measure is actually according to HIs law. Put the effort in, reap your rewards. Cause & effect. This does not necessarily preclude people from being on the same footing. If they are not, it merely means that the distribution by man's faulty values & reasoning is not in accordance with the measure of Allah. Also note that this verse, like most of the quran is addressed to the plural. This indicates that it refers to a group of people such as a community rather than an individual.
If the verse does indicate that people are not to be on an equal footing, it brings up the issue of "apparent" contradictions due to verses such as 16.71, which you have also referred to above. For reference see my earlier post with regard to this verse.
This is why I am saying that the same issue is dealt with differently for communities at different stages of their development in the quran.
Imraan
Then what is wrong with the law when Qarun said that he got it because of his knowledge? There you condemn him. Here you say affluence and poverty/restricted means is according to a law, and NOT the Will of Allah.
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The only contradictions there are, only are found in man-made sources of guidance as well as even slightly mistranslated versions of God's book, and one would think there are some in the Quran if he/she are misinterpreting verses. There cannot be a contradiction in the Quran. It's the word of the infallible. peace
-M
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Peace progressive
9103 is talking about the Arabs who have done both good and bad deeds. To remove their sins/reform themselves, they should pay "sadaqah" - a charity for redemption/expiation.
There is no disagreement, except that you see sadqah as cahrity whereas I see it as a right. WE can agree to disagree. This doesn't have any real bearing on the subject.
In the "Spoils of War" thread you have said
WOMEN ARE NOT OWNED BY MEN JUST BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED A GIFT (NAHLA) FROM THE MAN AS IS THEIR RIGHT (SADAQAH)
Can you quote the verse?
The verse that talks about the sadqah & nahla is 44.
Please read 9103 in context. You might see that it is not obligatory and only for expiation/redemption.
Zakat is obligatory.I have already quoted the verse that indicates that sadaqah is obligatory. Can we please stick to the subject of the tread regarding apparent contradictions?
Imraan
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Peace Mazhar
Then what is wrong with the law when Qarun said that he got it because of his knowledge? There you condemn him. Here you say affluence and poverty/restricted means is according to a law, and NOT the Will of Allah.
The issue is not whether or not it is Allah's will by some illogical, magical wavimg of a wand, or the law of cause & effect. The issue is the idea that because you have knowledge it entitles you to a greater share of the rizq that Allah has provided for all.
In the story of Qarun, the point is that knowledge does not entitle one to the ownership of rizq, which is provided by Allah through whatever means, for the benefit of all creation. In 3949, this attitude of claiming that something is due to your own knowledge or wisdom when it is actually from Allah is incorrect. Do not look at your ability to acquire more as your own doing. Your natural ability to perform certain tasks to benefit humanity has been ultimately endowed to you by Allah. That is why I say that we cannot determine different values for different natural abilities that people may have. 1028 clearly shows that we will be answerable for amassing wealth. 4150 further illustrates the fallacy of ascribing to one's self any ease or comfort that comes to a person.
Imraan
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Peace Meteora
The only contradictions there are, only are found in man-made sources of guidance as well as even slightly mistranslated versions of God's book, and one would think there are some in the Quran if he/she are misinterpreting verses. There cannot be a contradiction in the Quran. It's the word of the infallible.
This is exactly what I am saying. There are no contradictions. There are only apparent contradictions. I am simply looking at a way to understand these verses that eliminate any hint of contradiction.
What do you think of the issues I raised at the beginning of this thread?
Imraan
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Peace,
This is exactly what I am saying. There are no contradictions. There are only apparent contradictions. I am simply looking at a way to understand these verses that eliminate any hint of contradiction.
What do you think of the issues I raised at the beginning of this thread?
Imraan
?Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime??
?Sorry, son, all my money is tied up in currency.? - W.C. FieldsWhat a person can spare is up to them; Qur?an does not promote communist ideology or abolition of private property ? ?from each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs" is the rant of godless unbelievers.
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Peace Abdullah
?Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime??
?Sorry, son, all my money is tied up in currency.? - W.C. FieldsWhat a person can spare is up to them; Qur?an does not promote communist ideology or abolition of private property ? ?from each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs" is the rant of godless unbelievers.
Verses from the quran would be more welcome in supporting your opinion.
Most people tend to compare what a Quranic system is in comparison to or in light of Capitalism or Communism. The better approach is to take these man-made systems & look at them in comparison to & in light of the original deen.
Look at the quran to formulate the principles of a concept. Just as the hadith we are brought up with create tons of baggage that we sometimes find difficult to offload when trying to view the quran as the only source of revelation available to us, so too do the preconceived ideas about existing socio-economic systems & structures create baggage that we need to rid ourselves of to see things clearly.
There are verses in the quran that indicate voluntary action in what must be kept open of our wealth for those who need it & there are verses that indicate that it is obligatory. Please see the earlier posts in this thread).
How do you resolve these "apparent" contradictions?
Imraan
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Peace,
How do you resolve these "apparent" contradictions?
Easy, there is no "apparent" contradiction 2219 says the goodness -- up to each individual; whatever you like.
It doesn't set a minimum standard; to each individual a spoon, a bowl of soup, a pair of shoes...lol
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Peace Abdullah
Easy, there is no "apparent" contradiction 2219 says the goodness -- up to each individual; whatever you like.
It doesn't set a minimum standard; to each individual a spoon, a bowl of soup, a pair of shoes...lol
You claim that what you give is voluntary according to 2219. Yet 960 states that sadaqaah is fard.
How do you reconcile these verses.
Imraan
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Peace Imraan,
Peace Abdullah
You claim that what you give is voluntary according to 2219. Yet 960 states that sadaqaah is fard.
How do you reconcile these verses.
Imraan
It is voluntary, where the contradiction is? This is like saying there is compulsion in religion.
All are free to choose to give a little or a lot; to believe or not.
alssadaqatu - a religious duty/stipulation from God (fareedatan mina Allahi)
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Peace Abdullah
It is voluntary, where the contradiction is? This is like saying there is compulsion in religion.
All are free to choose to give a little or a lot; to believe or not.
alssadaqatu - a religious duty/stipulation from God (fareedatan mina Allahi)
I do not see 2256 as meaning the individual can decide that which he wishes to follow of the duties/stipulations from God. This idea comes from interpreting deen as religion. Deen refers to the system sanctioned by God. Therefore there is no compulsion as far as forcing someone to accept the system sanctioned by God. However one who accepts the system sanctioned by God IS compelled to uphold the duties & stipulations from God or else, by definition such a person becomes a denier of the system which he claims to accept.
Please take note of 9111, wher God has purchased from the mu'minoon their selves & their wealth in exchange for Jannah. This verse would imply that niether your nafs nor your wealth belongs to you if you are a mu'min. It belongs to God. Therefore a mu'min is required to utilise his nafs & wealth in fulfilling what God has promised the beings on earth. I will elaborate on this once I have heard your opinion on this verse.
Imraan
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Peace imraan,
Peace Abdullah
I do not see 2256 as meaning the individual can decide that which he wishes to follow of the duties/stipulations from God. This idea comes from interpreting deen as religion. Deen refers to the system sanctioned by God. Therefore there is no compulsion as far as forcing someone to accept the system sanctioned by God. However one who accepts the system sanctioned by God IS compelled to uphold the duties & stipulations from God or else, by definition such a person becomes a denier of the system which he claims to accept.
Please take note of 9111, wher God has purchased from the mu'minoon their selves & their wealth in exchange for Jannah. This verse would imply that niether your nafs nor your wealth belongs to you if you are a mu'min. It belongs to God. Therefore a mu'min is required to utilise his nafs & wealth in fulfilling what God has promised the beings on earth. I will elaborate on this once I have heard your opinion on this verse.
Imraan
Yes all things come from and belong to God which does not mean abandonment of all wealth and give it to the poor; up to each individual to be "mindful" and their choice what they want to contribute to whomever whatever they like.
2245
Who (is) that who lends God a good loan, so He multiplies it for him many doubles/multiples, and God holds and spreads, and to Him you are being returned.
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Peace Abdullah
Yes all things come from and belong to God which does not mean abandonment of all wealth and give it to the poor; up to each individual to be "mindful" and their choice what they want to contribute to whomever whatever they like.
2245
Who (is) that who lends God a good loan, so He multiplies it for him many doubles/multiples, and God holds and spreads, and to Him you are being returned.
Your reference of 2.245 creates an "apparent" contradiction with 9111. How can I, as a mu'min loan to Allah what is already His?
This is another example of why I contend that some verses, such as 2.245 are meant for a time in societal development when people are being asked to voluntarily provide for those who are struggling as the conditions of that society is as yet unable to provide for the basic needs of all its members.
9111 on the other hand refers to a society that is at a higher stage of development because people in such a society are closer to the establishment of the system of God & therefore able, by acknowledging the obligation they have of fulfilling the right of those who are struggling to their excess wealth, to provide for the basic needs of every member of their society.
Also, I am curious to know how you view God's deliverance of rizq to evryone. There are people starving everywhere. Does this mean that God cannot keep HIs promise? See 1731, 2960, 3647-48.
Imraan
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Peace Imraan,
Peace Abdullah
Your reference of 2.245 creates an "apparent" contradiction with 9111. How can I, as a mu'min loan to Allah what is already His?
This is another example of why I contend that some verses, such as 2.245 are meant for a time in societal development when people are being asked to voluntarily provide for those who are struggling as the conditions of that society is as yet unable to provide for the basic needs of all its members.
9111 on the other hand refers to a society that is at a higher stage of development because people in such a society are closer to the establishment of the system of God & therefore able, by acknowledging the obligation they have of fulfilling the right of those who are struggling to their excess wealth, to provide for the basic needs of every member of their society.
Also, I am curious to know how you view God's deliverance of rizq to evryone. There are people starving everywhere. Does this mean that God cannot keep HIs promise? See 1731, 2960, 3647-48.
Imraan
To give a beautiful/godly loan is a metaphor a mu'min can do then, now, or at anytime in between.
God's promise is to individuals which for me personally have always come true as in surah Maryam...
( ( ( (
K?f H? Y? A?n S?d a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariyya when he called out his Lord a call in secret. He said "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!
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Peace Abdullah
To give a beautiful/godly loan is a metaphor a mu'min can do then, now, or at anytime in between.
God's promise is to individuals which for me personally have always come true as in surah Maryam...
( ( ( (
K?f H? Y? A?n S?d a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariyya when he called out his Lord a call in secret. He said "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!
If I have a one of a kind item that I sell to you. Once we have concluded the transaction, that item now belongs to you. How can I then loan it to you if I am no longer the owner?
I'm not sure exactly what your reference to 191-4 is about in the context of what we are discussing.
Do you then believe that God decides individually who will get what. If so, do you believe this is decided ahead of time?As in the case of the generally held idea of "taqdeer"? I mean here that things are pre-destined. In the case of Zakariyyah, do you believe that it was by some miracle beyond the physical laws of the universe that he was granted a child?
Imraan
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9013 The freeing of slaves
This is exactly what I am talking about. There's no "slave" nor "freeing". The expression means loosen/lift the burden. It's an idiom whatever is on a neck is a burden. Arabic still uses this expression, even in the spoken language.