Resolving apparent contradictions in the Quran
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Peace Meteora
The only contradictions there are, only are found in man-made sources of guidance as well as even slightly mistranslated versions of God's book, and one would think there are some in the Quran if he/she are misinterpreting verses. There cannot be a contradiction in the Quran. It's the word of the infallible.
This is exactly what I am saying. There are no contradictions. There are only apparent contradictions. I am simply looking at a way to understand these verses that eliminate any hint of contradiction.
What do you think of the issues I raised at the beginning of this thread?
Imraan
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Peace,
This is exactly what I am saying. There are no contradictions. There are only apparent contradictions. I am simply looking at a way to understand these verses that eliminate any hint of contradiction.
What do you think of the issues I raised at the beginning of this thread?
Imraan
?Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime??
?Sorry, son, all my money is tied up in currency.? - W.C. FieldsWhat a person can spare is up to them; Qur?an does not promote communist ideology or abolition of private property ? ?from each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs" is the rant of godless unbelievers.
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Peace Abdullah
?Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime??
?Sorry, son, all my money is tied up in currency.? - W.C. FieldsWhat a person can spare is up to them; Qur?an does not promote communist ideology or abolition of private property ? ?from each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs" is the rant of godless unbelievers.
Verses from the quran would be more welcome in supporting your opinion.
Most people tend to compare what a Quranic system is in comparison to or in light of Capitalism or Communism. The better approach is to take these man-made systems & look at them in comparison to & in light of the original deen.
Look at the quran to formulate the principles of a concept. Just as the hadith we are brought up with create tons of baggage that we sometimes find difficult to offload when trying to view the quran as the only source of revelation available to us, so too do the preconceived ideas about existing socio-economic systems & structures create baggage that we need to rid ourselves of to see things clearly.
There are verses in the quran that indicate voluntary action in what must be kept open of our wealth for those who need it & there are verses that indicate that it is obligatory. Please see the earlier posts in this thread).
How do you resolve these "apparent" contradictions?
Imraan
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Peace,
How do you resolve these "apparent" contradictions?
Easy, there is no "apparent" contradiction 2219 says the goodness -- up to each individual; whatever you like.
It doesn't set a minimum standard; to each individual a spoon, a bowl of soup, a pair of shoes...lol
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Peace Abdullah
Easy, there is no "apparent" contradiction 2219 says the goodness -- up to each individual; whatever you like.
It doesn't set a minimum standard; to each individual a spoon, a bowl of soup, a pair of shoes...lol
You claim that what you give is voluntary according to 2219. Yet 960 states that sadaqaah is fard.
How do you reconcile these verses.
Imraan
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Peace Imraan,
Peace Abdullah
You claim that what you give is voluntary according to 2219. Yet 960 states that sadaqaah is fard.
How do you reconcile these verses.
Imraan
It is voluntary, where the contradiction is? This is like saying there is compulsion in religion.
All are free to choose to give a little or a lot; to believe or not.
alssadaqatu - a religious duty/stipulation from God (fareedatan mina Allahi)
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Peace Abdullah
It is voluntary, where the contradiction is? This is like saying there is compulsion in religion.
All are free to choose to give a little or a lot; to believe or not.
alssadaqatu - a religious duty/stipulation from God (fareedatan mina Allahi)
I do not see 2256 as meaning the individual can decide that which he wishes to follow of the duties/stipulations from God. This idea comes from interpreting deen as religion. Deen refers to the system sanctioned by God. Therefore there is no compulsion as far as forcing someone to accept the system sanctioned by God. However one who accepts the system sanctioned by God IS compelled to uphold the duties & stipulations from God or else, by definition such a person becomes a denier of the system which he claims to accept.
Please take note of 9111, wher God has purchased from the mu'minoon their selves & their wealth in exchange for Jannah. This verse would imply that niether your nafs nor your wealth belongs to you if you are a mu'min. It belongs to God. Therefore a mu'min is required to utilise his nafs & wealth in fulfilling what God has promised the beings on earth. I will elaborate on this once I have heard your opinion on this verse.
Imraan
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Peace imraan,
Peace Abdullah
I do not see 2256 as meaning the individual can decide that which he wishes to follow of the duties/stipulations from God. This idea comes from interpreting deen as religion. Deen refers to the system sanctioned by God. Therefore there is no compulsion as far as forcing someone to accept the system sanctioned by God. However one who accepts the system sanctioned by God IS compelled to uphold the duties & stipulations from God or else, by definition such a person becomes a denier of the system which he claims to accept.
Please take note of 9111, wher God has purchased from the mu'minoon their selves & their wealth in exchange for Jannah. This verse would imply that niether your nafs nor your wealth belongs to you if you are a mu'min. It belongs to God. Therefore a mu'min is required to utilise his nafs & wealth in fulfilling what God has promised the beings on earth. I will elaborate on this once I have heard your opinion on this verse.
Imraan
Yes all things come from and belong to God which does not mean abandonment of all wealth and give it to the poor; up to each individual to be "mindful" and their choice what they want to contribute to whomever whatever they like.
2245
Who (is) that who lends God a good loan, so He multiplies it for him many doubles/multiples, and God holds and spreads, and to Him you are being returned.
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Peace Abdullah
Yes all things come from and belong to God which does not mean abandonment of all wealth and give it to the poor; up to each individual to be "mindful" and their choice what they want to contribute to whomever whatever they like.
2245
Who (is) that who lends God a good loan, so He multiplies it for him many doubles/multiples, and God holds and spreads, and to Him you are being returned.
Your reference of 2.245 creates an "apparent" contradiction with 9111. How can I, as a mu'min loan to Allah what is already His?
This is another example of why I contend that some verses, such as 2.245 are meant for a time in societal development when people are being asked to voluntarily provide for those who are struggling as the conditions of that society is as yet unable to provide for the basic needs of all its members.
9111 on the other hand refers to a society that is at a higher stage of development because people in such a society are closer to the establishment of the system of God & therefore able, by acknowledging the obligation they have of fulfilling the right of those who are struggling to their excess wealth, to provide for the basic needs of every member of their society.
Also, I am curious to know how you view God's deliverance of rizq to evryone. There are people starving everywhere. Does this mean that God cannot keep HIs promise? See 1731, 2960, 3647-48.
Imraan
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Peace Imraan,
Peace Abdullah
Your reference of 2.245 creates an "apparent" contradiction with 9111. How can I, as a mu'min loan to Allah what is already His?
This is another example of why I contend that some verses, such as 2.245 are meant for a time in societal development when people are being asked to voluntarily provide for those who are struggling as the conditions of that society is as yet unable to provide for the basic needs of all its members.
9111 on the other hand refers to a society that is at a higher stage of development because people in such a society are closer to the establishment of the system of God & therefore able, by acknowledging the obligation they have of fulfilling the right of those who are struggling to their excess wealth, to provide for the basic needs of every member of their society.
Also, I am curious to know how you view God's deliverance of rizq to evryone. There are people starving everywhere. Does this mean that God cannot keep HIs promise? See 1731, 2960, 3647-48.
Imraan
To give a beautiful/godly loan is a metaphor a mu'min can do then, now, or at anytime in between.
God's promise is to individuals which for me personally have always come true as in surah Maryam...
( ( ( (
K?f H? Y? A?n S?d a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariyya when he called out his Lord a call in secret. He said "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!
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Peace Abdullah
To give a beautiful/godly loan is a metaphor a mu'min can do then, now, or at anytime in between.
God's promise is to individuals which for me personally have always come true as in surah Maryam...
( ( ( (
K?f H? Y? A?n S?d a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariyya when he called out his Lord a call in secret. He said "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!
If I have a one of a kind item that I sell to you. Once we have concluded the transaction, that item now belongs to you. How can I then loan it to you if I am no longer the owner?
I'm not sure exactly what your reference to 191-4 is about in the context of what we are discussing.
Do you then believe that God decides individually who will get what. If so, do you believe this is decided ahead of time?As in the case of the generally held idea of "taqdeer"? I mean here that things are pre-destined. In the case of Zakariyyah, do you believe that it was by some miracle beyond the physical laws of the universe that he was granted a child?
Imraan
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9013 The freeing of slaves
This is exactly what I am talking about. There's no "slave" nor "freeing". The expression means loosen/lift the burden. It's an idiom whatever is on a neck is a burden. Arabic still uses this expression, even in the spoken language.
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Peace Samia
In reference to 9013, you posted
This is exactly what I am talking about. There's no "slave" nor "freeing". The expression means loosen/lift the burden. It's an idiom whatever is on a neck is a burden. Arabic still uses this expression, even in the spoken language.
I looked through some verses & see what you mean. I have come accross words with roots "raa-qaf-baa" & "ain-baa-daal" being construed to mean slave, when in fact this may not be the meaning at all. Are there any other words with roots other than theses that are used for slave by translators in the quran?
Imraan
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Are there any other words with roots other than theses that are used for slave by translators in the quran?
Imraan
Yes, the infamous "maa malakat aymaanukum". Also "fataa and fataat/young or strong man; young or strong woman"
The qur'aan explicitely uses the word "3abdun mamluukun/ an owned slave"1675
Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men one) a helpless, owned slave (an owned slave who has no power of any sort); and a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly are the two equal? (By no means praise be to Allah. But most of them understand not.
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Peace Samia
The qur'aan explicitely uses the word "3abdun mamluukun/ an owned slave"
1675
Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men one) a helpless, owned slave (an owned slave who has no power of any sort); and a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly are the two equal? (By no means praise be to Allah. But most of them understand not.
Is this the only occurrence of the term in the quran?
Imraan
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Peace Imraan,
If I have a one of a kind item that I sell to you. Once we have concluded the transaction, that item now belongs to you. How can I then loan it to you if I am no longer the owner?
There was no transaction; a godly loan is metaphor, not literal, a figure of speech and only to our benefit.
I'm not sure exactly what your reference to 191-4 is about in the context of what we are discussing.
You asked if God provides/answers prayers -- "...And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!"
Do you then believe that God decides individually who will get what.
I believe so.
If so, do you believe this is decided ahead of time?As in the case of the generally held idea of "taqdeer"? I mean here that things are pre-destined.
I believe God is past present future -- like playing chess with God, your move is known and "at the same time" your move.
In the case of Zakariyyah, do you believe that it was by some miracle beyond the physical laws of the universe that he was granted a child?
Do we know the physical laws where the entire lenght/time slice of our demision is available to a higher-dimension?
http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/rv/3014_04.html
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Peace Samia
Is this the only occurrence of the term in the quran?
Imraan
The word "3abd" occurs several times as you know, but with relation to God (plural 3ibaad), it's not "slave", except four times in this construction
Your Lord is never unjust to the "3abeed" (plural of 3abd/slave).
The word 3abd, not related to God, also comes in this verse2178
which I do not think is talking about humans but animals
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15944.msg156893#msg156893 -
Peace Abdullah
There was no transaction; a godly loan is metaphor, not literal, a figure of speech and only to our benefit.
Surely even in a metaphor the wording is important in conveying the intended message. Why use the word loan if you want to convey a concept that has no relation to it?
You asked if God provides/answers prayers -- "...And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!"
I don't recall asking this question.
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Do you then believe that God decides individually who will get what.I believe so.
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If so, do you believe this is decided ahead of time?As in the case of the generally held idea of "taqdeer"? I mean here that things are pre-destined.I believe God is past present future -- like playing chess with God, your move is known and "at the same time" your move.
How can you be held accountable if this is the case? This makes no sense whatsoever. PLease give quranic evidence for this view.
Do we know the physical laws where the entire lenght/time slice of our demision is available to a higher-dimension?
http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/rv/3014_04.html
Let's leave this point for a little later in the discussion.
Imraan
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Peace All
Has this thread died because my contentions cannot be refuted or because you guys find that they are not worth responding to ?
Either way, I'd like to know. I can then evaluate my stance & determine where my study of this issue should go.
Imraan