Bakkah
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Peace
I just thought I'd share with you this link to a Quran Reader I have been using in case you don't already know about it. I think it is really useful because you can see all the different translations of The Holy Qur'an in English by 3 different translators (Yusuf Ali, Picktal and M.Asad) By the way, I personally prefer to use the M.Asad one because I have the Hard Back Book version of it at home and I am impressed by the way he has done the translations/interpretations, for example he tries to give the most logical explaination and also gives his reasons as to why he used that particular word or phrase. He also mentions whether the "ayat"/verse could be meant literally and/or allegorically. It's also ver useful because it has a search function. Here is the link to the Quran reader on Islamicity http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
Also, don't start shouting, I also got the QT.exe of submission.org http//submission.org/quran/ which is a useful little program where you can jump very quickly to whichever Chapter/Sura just so you can see which words are being translated as what. AND it is quite clever because you can toggle the order of the Suras (Chapters) to see which order they were revealed in (according to the person who made it do that ofcourse!) To be honest I find this version a little "blunter" than the Asad one, although sometimes more to the point/ less flowery(?). So I like to use it just to get as much input to process as possible.
Ok that's my contribution
Peace
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If you look for the meaning of the word "hajj" as used by the people of the book, you will see that it means "feast" and it was used to denote the annual harvest feast. This is why when you read the great reading you find that 90% of the passages about "hajj" have to do with livestock and eating and offering free food.
Sounds much more feasible than to save money your whole life to fly to Mecca (which many not-so-rich people in my country had done and are still doing, i'm afraid).
Local feasts would be of much more benefit to our society--instead of funding Arab's gov for new architectures and stuff.
Peace.
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Sounds much more feasible than to save money your whole life to fly to Mecca (which many not-so-rich people in my country had done and are still doing, i'm afraid).
Local feasts would be of much more benefit to our society--instead of funding Arab's gov for new architectures and stuff.
Peace.
I agree.
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I downloaded a movie made by National Geographic about Hajj. Part of me would like to go, just to see the sites. But there was a lot of depressing reality in the documentary too. I don't see anything religiously fulfilling about it. And the expense and the danger would be considered ridiculous if you removed it from the 'religious' context.
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I downloaded a movie made by National Geographic about Hajj. Part of me would like to go, just to see the sites. But there was a lot of depressing reality in the documentary too. I don't see anything religiously fulfilling about it. And the expense and the danger would be considered ridiculous if you removed it from the 'religious' context.
Cushan, can you give us a link? I think it was on TV sometimes ago (i wasn't too interested) but i'd like to have a copy... Thanks peace
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I used a torrent from Islamic Torrents. Download a free program for torrents, either uTorrent or Vuze, then go to Islamic Torrents or ISOhunt and search Hajj. It's a good documentary. It follows an American woman, an African man and a Malaysian man on Hajj.
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I agree with the consensus that Christopher Luxemburg's arguments are mostly bogus, but I came across a theory I hadn't heard before (dunno if his book was ever translated into English -- I've never read it, anyway).
Here's the quote as I found it
The change from initial B to initial M which should have produced Makkah (Mecca) from Bakkah is not standard in Arabic either, so this is an unexpected change.
This identification is the result of a traditional misreading of surah 396.
"Inna awwala baytin wudi
a li-n-n?si lalladh? bibakkata mub?rakan wa-hudan li-l-alam?na"Since no other explanation of this hapax legomenon "bibakkata" in the verse seemed possible, it was understood as "bi-Bakkata", with Bakkah allegedly being another name for Mecca (Arabic "Makkah", giving the understanding
"The first house established for the people was that at Bakka bibakkata, a place holy, and a guidance to all beings."
However, the Qur'an scholar Christoph Luxenberg, in his work Die syro-aram?ische Lesart des Koran. Ein Beitrag zur Entschl?sselung der Koransprache("The Syro-Aramaic
Reading of the Qur'an. A Contribution to Deciphering the Language of the Qur'an", Berlin 2000, p. 302, reads"Inna awwala baytin wudi
a li-n-n?si lalladh? tayyakahu mub?rakan wa-hudan li-l-alam?na"meaning "The first house i.e. sacred house, shrine; Ch.H.established for the people is that which He fenced in "tayyakahu" instead of the misread "bi-Bakkata" as a holy place and a guidance for the men."
The rasm, i.e. the Arabic script without all later invented diacritical marks, vowel signs etc., of both "bi-bakkata" and "tayyakahu" is exactly the same.
Could anyone tell me how this is mistaken?
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I agree with the consensus that Christopher Luxemburg's arguments are mostly bogus, but I came across a theory I hadn't heard before (dunno if his book was ever translated into English -- I've never read it, anyway).
Here's the quote as I found it
Could anyone tell me how this is mistaken?
Salam,
If you follow Luxenberg theory you can rewrite the whole Quran but also the whole Thora, as for both books diactrical signs were added later.
The Quran was memorised by people from the begining and still does, even if not understood. For example when you take the samarcand copy which is the odlest Quran, and compare it to the current version of the Quran, part of verses or words are in not the oldest version while present in the new version (Hafs).
The Samarcand Quran is not the original one , and oldest doesn't mean guenuine or the true copy, either with or without diactrical signs.
The true copy is the one that remained in the heart of the people.I am also looking for more information about the international conference of Cairo in 1921-1924 where all muslim scholars meat and setup the final version we know today, the result are the 2 versions we know today Hafs and Warch. This means people from different countries meat and put on paper what was memorised untill then.
Peace
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The first step is to recognise that reference to Hajj is really reference to Hag for all people
this will be reestablished in the future...
may it be soon
peace -
The man seems to have lost his mind in the bewilderness of Sinai.
Why do you say that?
Bakka is not Mecca.
Ps 84.6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
Does Mecca have a valley with pools and autumn rain?
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Why do you say that?
Bakka is not Mecca.
Ps 84.6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
Does Mecca have a valley with pools and autumn rain?
Read his 35 pages, but don't blame me if you later feel headache.
84.6 which book's para it refers to!
