Fish is haram 4 Quran Alone adept according to Sunni Cheikh
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So you will eat Munzir if you find him swiming in the water. laugh laugh
And he will eat you too! LOL laugh
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So you will eat Munzir if you find him swiming in the water. laugh laugh
Peace,
Respectfully.I don't eat humans, in fact just last night i stopepd eating humans and i did it with a big feast, me and my friends, we ate the last human and said .... well, i was the only one who remained uneaten, so is aid, this has tos top.
By the way, hmm hmm .... nah, i already had a jacket potatoe with cheese. peace
Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.I don't eat humans, in fact just last night i stopepd eating humans and i did it with a big feast, me and my friends, we ate the last human and said .... well, i was the only one who remained uneaten, so is aid, this has tos top.
By the way, hmm hmm .... nah, i already had a jacket potatoe with cheese. peace
Peace.
Some one told me that humans taste like chicken!
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you are wrong I heard like pigs, and it was a survivor from a flight crash that had to eat his companion (maybe dead I don't remember) to survive eat
My friend is wrong! Not me! jedi
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Well m ost people are pigs anyway rotfl
that was classic! bravo rotfl rotfl
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Some one told me that humans taste like chicken!
Peace,
Respectfully.Have you seen Soylent Green?
I saw it long time ago and i must admit, as a writer, old movies ar emuchy better then most movies today, if we put them together. I mean, Transformers, G-Force, Napoleon Dynamite, Terminator 3, Terminator 4, ..... many more, they have no stories to tell and when they start using puppets, robots, aliens and everything nonhuman, you ask yourself where are the actor and actreses?Humans can't taste like chicken becasue we have different DNA.
My two cents.Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.Have you seen Soylent Green?
I saw it long time ago and i must admit, as a writer, old movies ar emuchy better then most movies today, if we put them together. I mean, Transformers, G-Force, Napoleon Dynamite, Terminator 3, Terminator 4, ..... many more, they have no stories to tell and when they start using puppets, robots, aliens and everything nonhuman, you ask yourself where are the actor and actreses?Humans can't taste like chicken becasue we have different DNA.
My two cents.Peace.
I haven't seen it..But I think its great!
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It is then OBVIOUS that the verse forbidding dead animals IS LIMITED ACCORDING to another verse in the Quran.
In fact, another verse explains the dead animals and no fish will fit the description. Have you seen a fish gored to death by a bull or goat or fallen from the hill? Obviously, the verse prohibits eating carcass, since they could contain harmful bacteria or poison.
Well, we do not eat live animals. We all eat animals after they are killed by humans. If killing a chicken and eating it is okay, then killing a fish and eating it too should be okay. As it is the case with other animals we should not eat fish that we found dead on their own or by an unknown cause.
Peace,
Edip -
In fact, another verse explains the dead animals and no fish will fit the description. Have you seen a fish gored to death by a bull or goat or fallen from the hill? Obviously, the verse prohibits eating carcass, since they could contain harmful bacteria or poison.
Well, we do not eat live animals. We all eat animals after they are killed by humans. If killing a chicken and eating it is okay, then killing a fish and eating it too should be okay. As it is the case with other animals we should not eat fish that we found dead on their own or by an unknown cause.
Peace
EdipPeace,
Respectfully.This is the common sense that i was tlaking about, yes. Of course, if you mention the common sense and its usage to pagans also known as sunnis, they will forbid you to use it.
Glory be to our God,
Glory be to our God.Peace.
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Salaam Aleykum, Peace to the Forum and Eid Mubarek (Hope I'm not too late! I was told Eid was on Monday (today insh'allah) and there does not seem to be a reliable way of finding out, then again I have not yet found the word Eid in the Qur'an either so am somewhat disillusioned) Sorry for the long greeting.
For a long time now my husband and I have stopped discussing Islam seeing as is always results in arguments, heated debates, sulking and bad feeling. He knows now that if he wants to discuss anything with me, it has to be logical and based on the Qur'an and not on superstition and tradition, and certainly not on "Hadiths" from outside the Qur'an.
Just now we have been reading the Qur'an together and we are both flabbergasted with eath other. We are pointing the sentences out to each other and reading them aloud, me in English, he in Arabic and saying, why don't you get it?! What he is saying is definitely there I CANNOT see, and what I am saying is there HE CANNOT SEE. We are both trying desperately to understand, and Insh'Allah God will guide us both to a correct understanding.
We are looking at 53 and 6116-119, as we are discussing halal meat. He says that it means that the name that-must-not-be-other-than-Allah must be mentioned/invoked/said "AT THE TIME OF SLAUGHTER" And he says it is no good just saying Bismillah before you eat it, because you don't know how it has been killed and whether "Allah" was said at that time.
He even goes so far as to say that EVEN IF HE WAS KILLING THE ANIMAL HIMSELF, WITH A KNIFE, SLITTING ITS THROAT and did not say Bismillah or Allah AT THE TIME OF SLAUGHTER then the whole animal would have to be wasted and not eaten as it would be "haram". Saying Bismillah a 1000 times after it is dead is no good, according to the Imam who explained this to him on the TV.
His mother tongue is Arabic so he reckons it is clear as the day, that it says AT THE TIME OF SLAUGHTER and says that the words in 6118 "Fakuloo mimma thukira ismuAllahi AAalayhi" is the proof and says that it is so important it is repeated again in 6119 "Wama lakum alla ta/kuloo mimmathukira ismu Allahi AAalayhi"
He says that mimma means BEFORE so it means BEFORE the SLAUGHTER... I said maybe it could it mean "before eating it" but he says it is CLEARLY "before the slaughter" and is absolutely adamant and is annoyed with me that for the first time he is coming and discussing Qur'an alone with me and we still end up arguing.
But I cannot see the word Slaughter?! I am desperately trying to and have looked at the 5 different translations on Quranix.com. The only place I found the word "Zabiha" (which he says is the word for slaughter) was in 53 wama thubihaAAala alnnusubi which is "slaughtered on idolatrous altars" (This is his argument "for" and yet my argument "against"!)
He says from now on he will not buy food marked as "Halal" as this could be some kind of political/commercial trick because he thinks it might just be regular meat with a Halal stamp just so they can charge extra (which I am also a skeptic of I must admit), and he now believes he has to see the animal being killed with his own eyes , and hear the name of Allah being said as it is killed. And will not eat the regular supermarket food seeing as he believes that it is "haram" .
So he says he now has no choice but to go vegetarian OR find a place where he can stand and watch the animal being killed, in the "correct" way, which seems very extreme, seeing as we live in the city.
And he has now forbidden me to let our 2 kids eat meat (Which we normally get from the "Halal" Butchers.)
I love chicken and have firmly believed up til now that Allah made it lawful for us, and even would eat chicken that wasn't so-called "zabiha-halal" (as long as I said Bismillah and was grateful whilst eating it) because I didn't believe in "the sword and the prayer at the time of slaughter". But it seems I need to be able to find out how the animal was killed, even if it has the stamp of "halal" which cannot now be trusted ( because we do not know how the animal was killed, and whether the people doing it were worshipping prophets or imams while they did it!)
I know Allah doesn't want us to be wasteful or forbid that which is not forbidden.
You can move this post to another exisiting thread if you like, I have read the other one, it's just this one is more recent.
PS
Apparently, this same imam who was saying the "TIME OF SLAUGHTER" law also said today that we are not allowed to eat things with sharp teeth or claws and birds with hooked beaks or animals that eat meat and certain kinds of fish without scales, and these forbidden types of animals are also in the Qur'an but we could not find them. (examples such as SHARK, DONKEY and LION)I was under the impression that Shark was ok, seeing as it comes from the sea. I do not fancy it anyway.
And also if a mosquito sucks out some of your blood you have to make "Ghusl" (Shower/bathe in a ritual fashion) and Wudu (ablution) before being able to pray.
I need FOOD for thought! Of course I will go now and pray to ALLAH for guidance, for it is he ALONE who can guide us, may He be Glorified!
Peace and blessings to all
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Salam UmAlawi,
My understanding of 6118-121 is that the name of God must be mentioned at the time of slaughter/death.
The wording indicates that the name of God has been (or not been) mentioned by other than the persons being adressed (in a past tense), which rules out the act of the person eating the meat saying the name of God on it.
The issue of God's name has to do not with the act of eating or thanking Him, but has to do with the taking of the animals life and that you are doing such by God's permission/leave, similar to the slaughter that is done in pilgrimage
2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of God; you will have benefit in them. So mention
the name of God upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them
the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.
2237 Neither their meat nor their blood reaches God, but what reaches Him is the righteousness from you. It was thus that He made
them in service to you, so that you may glorify God for what He has guided you to, and give news to the good doers.Though, I think by not eating meat with the "Halal" label on it is going too far as you are not required anywhere to actually see or hear the act of slaughter, you only need to know about it. So, if a butcher says that it has been slaughtered this way, then that will suffice (unless it is proven he/she is a liar, then you simply need to change the butcher shop).
Regards,
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peace UmAlawi,
AQ = al quran
He says that mimma means BEFORE so it means BEFORE the SLAUGHTER... I said maybe it could it mean "before eating it" but he says it is CLEARLY "before the slaughter" and is absolutely adamant and is annoyed with me that for the first time he is coming and discussing Qur'an alone with me and we still end up arguing.
"mimma" means "of what" and as fas I'm aware does not mean before. Perhaps he meant since "dhukira" is in the perfect tense, i.e. it is an action done/completed. To refute this point about "mimma" a simple phonetic search of AQ will do, e.g. using the many tools at StudyQuran.org
e.g. 23
Allatheena yuminoona bialghaybi wayuqeemoona alssalata wa mimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona
Who believe in the Unseen, are uphold the bond, and spend of what We have provided for them;Clearly, one does not spend it before he has been given provision!
But I cannot see the word Slaughter?! I am desperately trying to and have looked at the 5 different translations on Quranix.com. The only place I found the word "Zabiha" (which he says is the word for slaughter) was in 53 wama thubihaAAala alnnusubi which is "slaughtered on idolatrous altars" (This is his argument "for" and yet my argument "against"!)
For background reading
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8129.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8443peace Layth,
The wording indicates that the name of God has been (or not been) mentioned by other than the persons being adressed (in a past tense), which rules out the act of the person eating the meat saying the name of God on it.
Can you clarify what exactly in the Arabic implies this? Is it the following
6118
So eat / fa kul - 2nd person plural masculine imperative verb
(is) mentioned / dhukira - 3rd person singular masculine passive perfect verbAlso, if we go by that logic, then is AQ implying the person slaughtering the animal would not be able to eat it? Unless I'm mistaken.
Also, if we consider the catch of the sea, fish are likely dead before we have a chance to mention/remember the name of God upon it. Similar to the situation when the hunting animals, e.g. dogs, catch our food, see 54.
2236-37 seems to imply the name of God should be remembered/mentioned upon them prior to slaughter.
I have not studied this topic in detail, but it seems that if one is in a position to mention/remember prior to slaughter then they should. If one is not in a position to, then mentioning/remembering prior to eating can be done. This topic will likely require further study.
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Peace
I am considering asking the local "halal" butcher if I can visit the place where they get the meat from (presumably the slaughter-house direct), so I can check that they are not slaughtering the animals in a shrine dedicated to prophets/imams. Call me picky!! I just know it would gross me out though. I can't stand blood. Imagine the smell...! I think it would give me nightmares. I have not made my mind up about doing this yet. Insh'Allah, I will be guided to what is correct. I nearly had a panic attack when I had my wisdom tooth out though... yuck
I have seen far too much "Shirk" round here though - The "ring of shirk" as I call it, which is a piece of jewellery in this house with at least 2 other names next to the Name of Allah s.w.t and a necklace in dedication of one of "the 12 infallible imams", and another necklace with loads of other names on it along side the name of Allah s.w.t, and some prayer beads with different names on it... It's scary stuff! There is even something written in Arabic on one of the prayer mats. I do not know what it says so I always try to use the plain one, or fold the writing underneath.
Whenever I see these other names, I say
"Qul inama adu rabbi wa la ushrik bihi a hadha" from Qur'an 7220
Which I believe means
Say "I invoke my Sustainer alone, for I do not ascribe divinity to anyone beside Him."
And I try not to touch the artifices, unless I'm cleaning up and have to move them.Well the main thing is Allah s w t knows what is in my heart, alhamdulillah.
I do wonder though if seeing a "certified Halal" sign is enough though. I mean, isn't this like blindly accepting that the sign is true and correct? Don't we have to use our eyes and hearing to check things if we are in doubt? How far do you go to check something out? Maybe there are levels of checking from 1 extreme to the other
1.Blindly eating whatever food you see
2.Eating any food as long as it is not pork (not worrying about the way the animal was killed)
3.Shopping at a store where you assume the meat is halal
4.Shopping at a store where you see a sign saying Halal
5.Shopping at a store where you can see a sign of Halal with a Certification
6.Asking the store owner if the sign is still in date/still valid
7.Asking the delivery people if they know about how the animals were killed
8.Phoning the Slaughterhouse to ask how it is done
9.Visiting the Slaughterhouse to see how it is done
10.Going to the slaughterhouse to do the slaughter yourself.As we can see, it does go from one extreme to the other, bordering on Paranoia at the top extreme.
And I do believe we should take the middle way so somewhere around #5/6 is looking reasonable, although I think it is still important to know whether anyone else's name is mentioned at the time of slaughter or whether the animal is being sacrificed on idolatrous altars, but cannot think of how I would go about enquiring this. I can imagine the response already, "It's Halal Woman, what more do you need to know?!?!"
Ooh I know, I could buy some live chickens and keep them in the garden?!?! Problem solved!
Peace
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Salam,
Apparently, this same imam who was saying the "TIME OF SLAUGHTER" law also said today that we are not allowed to eat things with sharp teeth or claws and birds with hooked beaks or animals that eat meat and certain kinds of fish without scales, and these forbidden types of animals are also in the Qur'an but we could not find them. (examples such as SHARK, DONKEY and LION)
These restrictions are from the sunna/hadith and not from God's law. There were restrictions made for the Jews as a punishment for their transgression (6146), but that does not concern us.
The items you mentioned are all permissible (if you like that type of food).
16114 So eat from what God has provided you, that which is good and lawful, and be thankful for the blessing of God, if it is indeed He
whom you serve.
16115 He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to any other
than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
16116 And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe ?This is lawful, and that is forbidden;? that you seek to invent lies about
God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.
16117 A small enjoyment, and they will have a painful retribution. -
Peace
Thanks for your comments Brothers Wakas and Layth.
Interestingly, this possible LoopHole has turned up
AQ 593
There is no sin upon those who believe and do good works for what they eat if they are aware and believe and do good work, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.
"Eat" is translated in the present tense in all 5 translations on Quranix.com
however, on the emuslim word-for-word translation, it is showing in the past tense"There is no sin on those
who believe and do good
deeds for what they ate
(in the past) if they (now)
fear Allah and believe
and do good deeds, then
fear Allah and believe,
then (again) fear Allah
and do good; and Allah
loves the good-doers"which seems to make it less of a loophole / get out clause.
http//www.emuslim.com/wordforword/juz7/07-165-171.pdf
What do you make of this? Can it mean both past and present?
And speaking of past tense, in 6118 and 6119 is it "has been pronounced" or "was pronounced"
If it's "has been pronounced" then it seems logical that we have up until we eat it to pronounce it. (It would still be grammatically logical to say that "the name of Allah has been pronounced (by myself)"
If it's "was pronounced" on the other hand, then it seems as though it's referring to an event already happened i.e. the slaughter.
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salam Wakas,
Can you clarify what exactly in the Arabic implies this? Is it the following
6118
So eat / fa kul - 2nd person plural masculine imperative verb
(is) mentioned / dhukira - 3rd person singular masculine passive perfect verbAlso, if we go by that logic, then is AQ implying the person slaughtering the animal would not be able to eat it? Unless I'm mistaken.
No. The indication that I refer to is given in 6121 with the word "lam"
la takulu mima LAM yuthkar ism allah alaih
This indicates that the act of mentioning God's name must be done in the past, before it ever reached the person who is about to eat it. Therefore, that dispells that notion that the name of God can simply be mentioned at any time after the animal is slaughtered to make it permisible.
Also, note that the issue of God's name mentioned at the slaughter is the only option that makes sence when we look at other verses that deal with what foods are lawful or unlawful
55 Today, the good things have been made lawful to you, and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you,
and your food is lawful for them;...Had we simply been required to mention God's name at the time of eating, then there would be no need for the verse above which makes the food prepared by the people of the Book lawful for us - since mentioning the name of God upon slaughter is a command that would be contained in the Scriptures of old.
Also, if we consider the catch of the sea, fish are likely dead before we have a chance to mention/remember the name of God upon it. Similar to the situation when the hunting animals, e.g. dogs, catch our food, see 54.
The catch of the sea is given to us with no restrictions
596 Lawful for you is the catch of the sea, to eat it as enjoyment for you and for those who travel; and unlawful for you is the catch of
the land as long as you are under restriction; and be aware of God to whom you will be gathered.As for what the trained animals catch for us, we are still required to mention God's name upon them as they are taken/collected (mention the name of God upon it)
54 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say ?All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs
and birds catch, you teach them from what God teaches you.? So eat from what they have captured for you and mention the name
of God upon it, and be aware of God. God is swift in reckoning.
