Quran only?
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I just noticed that my quotations are not easily identified in the format of my previous post, I aplogize, i have highlighted in
Let me remind everyone of the ayats (AGAIN) this repeated up to 60 times in the QuranWhoever obeys the Prophet has indeed obeyed Allah
Obey Allah and obey the Messenger
All Please bear in mind that your website and principles are not widely known, otherwise you will have a lot more intelectual debate to counter your views, This has given at least one person the sense that they have defeated everything in sight with their Quran prowess
Please bear in mind that I am no scholar and am debating with you for the sake of Allah and may he guide us all.I at least am finding some common ground with some of you that if a hadith complements the Quran, you will accept it or the fact that the Quran is the litmus test for everything.
Meteroa
"Living in the West has nothing to do with why more than 80% of the people here follow the Quran alone."
Please advise where you are getting your numbers? i a have live in both Europe and US for quite a while and am only coming to know of your 'school of thought' online and few persons here and there in person, I dont think you will gain much traction because if you guys are wrong the consequence is very severe (hereafter) and most people remain fixed to what they know for this fear"Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139
Narrated Abdullah We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which GOD has made lawful for you." "
There are hadith in Bukhari and Muslim that out law 'Temporary marriages or 'Muta' such as
Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527
Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib
On the day of Khaibar, ALLAH'S APOSTLE FORBADE THE MUT'A (I.E. TEMPORARY MARRIAGE) and the eating of donkey-meat.
Muslim, Book 21, Number 4763
'Ali b. Abi Talib reported that ALLAH'S MESSENGER (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) FORBADE ON THE DAY OF KHAIBAR TEMPORARY MARRIAGE (MUTA' WITH WOMEN and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses
I cannot at this time explain why the first one approves it and these and many others forbid it, so I follow the ones that forbid it because its more in line with the quran, i am not arguing the point that the Quran is used to make the final decision
(But this is why its important to have scholars the years of study will allow for easy explanations based on Quran, other hadith, historical background..) if i didnt have internet, i will be suckered (or wiswassed by shaitan) to believe that Muhamad PBUH has authorized this and its legal to do so, which means he must be a liar or all hadith are false. what satan does here is protect himself of the infinite firepower avowed to a student of the prophet (knowledge you lose access to by rejecting all hadiths), if you just read the quran, he has less work to do to wisswass your understanding of the verses.Can you explain the above wondrous Hadith? sorry this is explained above
"EVERY SINGLE VERSE the sunni's use in their defense and in the defense of their bullshit sunna is easily shot down by other verses in the Quran."
The above ayats (at the top of this post), are enough to force any "Quran" follower to explore what exactly did the Prophet (PBUH) has taught (the hadith), what Allah has taught is the Quran, unless you are now changing to say the Quran came from the prophet."women here don't cover their hair, that men shave, that people spend their free times watching movies, listening to music and playing video games etc. While these so-called Muslims see these acts satanic"
Bear in mind that the Quran teaches that Satan is an avowed enemy to you,and the hadith that you hate so much prophesized what the begining of the last days will look like, All of what you mention above (except the beard which is another story) have satanic content in that you have wasted time "by the time Man is surely lost" this is one of Satans tools to waste your time instead of spending it in worship and good acts. the women covering the hair, as you know adultry and out of wedlock child birth is widespread in the west this plays into satans plan, the modesty of the woman is so key to protect the progeny, I am man by the way, men are a lot less self control for sexual deviancy than women, and God knows our weakness which is why the modesty, you can thank movies why YOU and I will be considered terrorist bloodsucking barbarians (even though you have divorced yourself from the hadith) if Muhamad (PBUH) said it I follow it 100% and i have spent a good amount of time around hadith, and because of what I learn from the hadith, I am a positive beneficial contributor to my surroundings in the west. these include (trustworthiness, responsibility,being considerate, patience, knowledge of the unseen, importance of knowledge and most importantly fear of Allah)"1. It is the only source God gives a shit about." I know it slang but could you be more respectful in your choice of wording when discussing an attribute of the almighty creator of you and me and all that surrounds us?
Allen
"Bring any and all "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want and can, honeslty and i will defeat them using JUST The Quran."
I think its the other way round, the Quran is defeating your argument because its obstructing you to follow the prophet and if there are matters you disagree with ...
"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 459)"
Please explain what Allah means when he aks us to OBEY Muhamad (PBUH)?A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
THis new knowledge is what you are all either rejecting or deeming completely lost (which contradicts the ayat in the Quran where Allah has said I have perfected your deen)Read the following and stop coloring words yellow. I could not read them without highlighting.
This response should clarify everything God willing http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598898.msg217542#msg217542
So wait, women getting raped is their fault? Fabulous. I guess God's command to lower the gaze (for men and women since the gazing of the female can also excite the man) is meaningless since women have to cover their bodies from head to toe, thus men don't have to put forth any effort in lowering any gaze. God also says to dress righteously so if you're dressing like a ho or trying to get men excited you are not dressing righteously as far as I'm concerned. In fact God even condemned walking (for women) in such a way that they display hidden beauty. Nowhere is it says she has to cover her hair and this is why all these extra teachings in the hadith are actually just ideas you'll find in the bible http//pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/06/hadith-plagiarized-from-the-bible/. They are following the system of Bukhari & co. and not God's.
This is the SUNNA of God for those of the past, and you will find no alternative for the SUNNA of God.
And by at least 80% I meant those on Free Minds. That is why there is no one defending ahadith here but you who came out of nowhere within the last year or so.
You keep saying the ahadith are actually from the prophet but if you are to read the link given above, you will know he could not have attributed anything to God but the Quran. I not only provided the verse saying this but others that agree with this fact.
As for my choice of words, of course I am upset because of this retarded confusion the sunni's have with the true way and system of God.
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THe biggest problem that is ironically prophesized by the Hadiths is the that you rarely see real scholars in these debates, real scholars as in years and years 10+ studying the interconnection of hadith interplay between hadith and Quran.
Yea.. 'real scholars' are inheritors of the prophethood right?
Ulama waratsatul anbiya...Salam / Peace
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Allen
"Bring any and all "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want and can, honeslty and i will defeat them using JUST The Quran."
I think its the other way round, the Quran is defeating your argument because its obstructing you to follow the prophet and if there are matters you disagree with ...
"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 459)"
Please explain what Allah means when he aks us to OBEY Muhamad (PBUH)?
"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 459)"
A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
THis new knowledge is what you are all either rejecting or deeming completely lost (which contradicts the ayat in the Quran where Allah has said I have perfected your deen)Peace,
Respectfully.Beautiful. Beautiful, man, this is an argument against you!
Good thing you quoted the right verse from The Quran - The BEST Hadith.459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger, and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
I was living in Yugoslavija and the authority was Slobodan Milosevic who later on killed half a million sunnis in Bosnia, attacked Slovenia, Croatia, destroyed two cities there and killed thousands and then attacked Bosnia and we all saw that, right?
Do you honestly expect me to obey that "authority"?
No, i didn't think so.
Why?
Well, let's start with the fact that Yugoslavija was a communistic country (no religion of any kind except Christian orthodox and absolutely NO ISLAM!),
no individuality, all must play according to what the majority says,
one must love the president like your own parents, which i disagreed always.And if we dispute in any matter then we shall it to God and His messenger.
Do you see the beauty here?
I do.
The beauty is this obey God and His Messenger and those in authority, yes, but
if i disagree with the authority or vice versa or the authority doesn't follow The Quran, then there is a dispute between us, would you agree?
Yes, i thought so.
In that case, God tells us further in 459 that we shall refer it to God and His messenger, because God knows that the authority in the future - like year 2009 - will be evil and willw ant us to abandon The Quran in favour for their own laws, manmade laws.One question for you where in The Quran does God The MOST Wise say to obey Muhammad?
I know that God The MOST Merciful says to obey the mesenger but where does He The MOST Powerul say to obey Muhammad?
Provide Quranic evidence, please.God's Message can be brought to humans by another human.
Obviously God can send an angel but then people will start worshipping an angel.
If God dropped a Book from the sky, ....what would happen?
God has chosen a human to talk to humans in human language and when interacting with them, this human will ONLY tell them what God tells him to say. hence constant word in The Quran SAY.Get it?
If this human says something else other then The Quran, this human would be terminated.
Prophet Yunus only got angry and he was punished.
May The Exalted God The MOST Powerful, The MOST Merciful guide you and give us all Patience.
Peace. -
why do you fear Sunni for? is it because they are right? and you knew they have the facts to prove you wrong. Just remember you are in this world for a short period of time, the hereafter is your final destination. the West may provide you with all you desire but were you are being provided all this your countries army is killing innocent Muslims. how can you justify that? Being Sunni,whabbi or shia we all believe in Allah so why do you have such a problem with Sunni?
Peace,
Respectfully.- I am not afraid of any humans, let alone sunnis or wahabis.
- Sunnis, shias, wahabis and others with them, are not right because i'm reading in The Quran, they're not right. I'm also reading in The Bible that the Christians of today ar enot followers of Jesus. God alone knows who is right and who is wrong.
- The West provides me with what God have me in the first place Peace, Freedom, Justice, Equality, Love. I have been living in UK for over two years now and i pray in the park with my hands alongside my body and i don't look right nor left at the end of the prayer. And you know what? No one dares to interfere. There are cops circling around making sure that i can practice Quranic rules according to what i believe. Thank God for allowing me to be in UK, God bless UK.
3.1 The West provides me with justice when i was in jail in Frisco, i was allowed to pray in the cell. I was given a free lawyer. I was told by the judge, the cops, cellmates and everyone else that i don't have to be deported, that i can appeal and reappeal as many times as i want. In KSA or Afghanistan, there is no such thing. There, you say you reject hadith - your head falls down faster then WTC7.
3.2 In The West, i found a Real and True LOVE i'm getting married to an open-minded person, she is the MOST beautiful woman alive and i'm the MOST blessed person on the Earth.
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Innocent Muslims? Those people that die in the Mid_East are not Muslims, yes, they are innocent, plenty of innocent people die there everyday due to high volume of lunatics who explode themselves because they prefer 73 virgins in their Heaven rather then satying here and providing for their families.
And plenty of UK and US troops die because politicians over here are also dumb but more crafty.
By the way, ask yourself this why does God THE MOST WISE allow sunnis to die in such a way, for such a long time, now when they pray five times a day to Him? -
I don't have a problem with anyone. Whenever i walk into the mosque - sunni mosque - i will always be asked this
A)Do you believe in Muhammad? (they think i don't just by looking at me.)
B)Do you pray five times a day? (they have to make sure they can greet you with salaam.)
C)Where are you from? (so they can calculate how many Muslims live there.)
D)When did you convert (i'm white and they don't believe white Muslims exist.)
I will always believe in this There is more Islam and more Quran in the United States of America and United KIngdom of Great Britain, then in the entire Middle East. I have seen it with my own healthy eyes and heard it with my sound system, Thank God.
Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.- I am not afraid of any humans, let alone sunnis or wahabis.
- Sunnis, shias, wahabis and others with them, are not right because i'm reading in The Quran, they're not right. I'm also reading in The Bible that the Christians of today ar enot followers of Jesus. God alone knows who is right and who is wrong.
- The West provides me with what God have me in the first place Peace, Freedom, Justice, Equality, Love. I have been living in UK for over two years now and i pray in the park with my hands alongside my body and i don't look right nor left at the end of the prayer. And you know what? No one dares to interfere. There are cops circling around making sure that i can practice Quranic rules according to what i believe. Thank God for allowing me to be in UK, God bless UK.
3.1 The West provides me with justice when i was in jail in Frisco, i was allowed to pray in the cell. I was given a free lawyer. I was told by the judge, the cops, cellmates and everyone else that i don't have to be deported, that i can appeal and reappeal as many times as i want. In KSA or Afghanistan, there is no such thing. There, you say you reject hadith - your head falls down faster then WTC7.
3.2 In The West, i found a Real and True LOVE i'm getting married to an open-minded person, she is the MOST beautiful woman alive and i'm the MOST blessed person on the Earth.
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Innocent Muslims? Those people that die in the Mid_East are not Muslims, yes, they are innocent, plenty of innocent people die there everyday due to high volume of lunatics who explode themselves because they prefer 73 virgins in their Heaven rather then satying here and providing for their families.
And plenty of UK and US troops die because politicians over here are also dumb but more crafty.
By the way, ask yourself this why does God THE MOST WISE allow sunnis to die in such a way, for such a long time, now when they pray five times a day to Him? -
I don't have a problem with anyone. Whenever i walk into the mosque - sunni mosque - i will always be asked this
A)Do you believe in Muhammad? (they think i don't just by looking at me.)
B)Do you pray five times a day? (they have to make sure they can greet you with salaam.)
C)Where are you from? (so they can calculate how many Muslims live there.)
D)When did you convert (i'm white and they don't believe white Muslims exist.)
I will always believe in this There is more Islam and more Quran in the United States of America and United KIngdom of Great Britain, then in the entire Middle East. I have seen it with my own healthy eyes and heard it with my sound system, Thank God.
Peace.
bravo bravo bravo handshake handshake
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Peace,
Respectfully.- I am not afraid of any humans, let alone sunnis or wahabis.
- Sunnis, shias, wahabis and others with them, are not right because i'm reading in The Quran, they're not right. I'm also reading in The Bible that the Christians of today ar enot followers of Jesus. God alone knows who is right and who is wrong.
- The West provides me with what God have me in the first place Peace, Freedom, Justice, Equality, Love. I have been living in UK for over two years now and i pray in the park with my hands alongside my body and i don't look right nor left at the end of the prayer. And you know what? No one dares to interfere. There are cops circling around making sure that i can practice Quranic rules according to what i believe. Thank God for allowing me to be in UK, God bless UK.
3.1 The West provides me with justice when i was in jail in Frisco, i was allowed to pray in the cell. I was given a free lawyer. I was told by the judge, the cops, cellmates and everyone else that i don't have to be deported, that i can appeal and reappeal as many times as i want. In KSA or Afghanistan, there is no such thing. There, you say you reject hadith - your head falls down faster then WTC7.
3.2 In The West, i found a Real and True LOVE i'm getting married to an open-minded person, she is the MOST beautiful woman alive and i'm the MOST blessed person on the Earth.
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Innocent Muslims? Those people that die in the Mid_East are not Muslims, yes, they are innocent, plenty of innocent people die there everyday due to high volume of lunatics who explode themselves because they prefer 73 virgins in their Heaven rather then satying here and providing for their families.
And plenty of UK and US troops die because politicians over here are also dumb but more crafty.
By the way, ask yourself this why does God THE MOST WISE allow sunnis to die in such a way, for such a long time, now when they pray five times a day to Him? -
I don't have a problem with anyone. Whenever i walk into the mosque - sunni mosque - i will always be asked this
A)Do you believe in Muhammad? (they think i don't just by looking at me.)
B)Do you pray five times a day? (they have to make sure they can greet you with salaam.)
C)Where are you from? (so they can calculate how many Muslims live there.)
D)When did you convert (i'm white and they don't believe white Muslims exist.)
I will always believe in this There is more Islam and more Quran in the United States of America and United KIngdom of Great Britain, then in the entire Middle East. I have seen it with my own healthy eyes and heard it with my sound system, Thank God.
Peace.
I hear you bro bravo handshake I got to say though I give selam to my right and left when I pray. Have I missed something or overlooked something.
Peace
Hope
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Peace,
Respectfully.- I am not afraid of any humans, let alone sunnis or wahabis.
- Sunnis, shias, wahabis and others with them, are not right because i'm reading in The Quran, they're not right. I'm also reading in The Bible that the Christians of today ar enot followers of Jesus. God alone knows who is right and who is wrong.
- The West provides me with what God have me in the first place Peace, Freedom, Justice, Equality, Love. I have been living in UK for over two years now and i pray in the park with my hands alongside my body and i don't look right nor left at the end of the prayer. And you know what? No one dares to interfere. There are cops circling around making sure that i can practice Quranic rules according to what i believe. Thank God for allowing me to be in UK, God bless UK.
3.1 The West provides me with justice when i was in jail in Frisco, i was allowed to pray in the cell. I was given a free lawyer. I was told by the judge, the cops, cellmates and everyone else that i don't have to be deported, that i can appeal and reappeal as many times as i want. In KSA or Afghanistan, there is no such thing. There, you say you reject hadith - your head falls down faster then WTC7.
3.2 In The West, i found a Real and True LOVE i'm getting married to an open-minded person, she is the MOST beautiful woman alive and i'm the MOST blessed person on the Earth.
-
Innocent Muslims? Those people that die in the Mid_East are not Muslims, yes, they are innocent, plenty of innocent people die there everyday due to high volume of lunatics who explode themselves because they prefer 73 virgins in their Heaven rather then satying here and providing for their families.
And plenty of UK and US troops die because politicians over here are also dumb but more crafty.
By the way, ask yourself this why does God THE MOST WISE allow sunnis to die in such a way, for such a long time, now when they pray five times a day to Him? -
I don't have a problem with anyone. Whenever i walk into the mosque - sunni mosque - i will always be asked this
A)Do you believe in Muhammad? (they think i don't just by looking at me.)
B)Do you pray five times a day? (they have to make sure they can greet you with salaam.)
C)Where are you from? (so they can calculate how many Muslims live there.)
D)When did you convert (i'm white and they don't believe white Muslims exist.)
I will always believe in this There is more Islam and more Quran in the United States of America and United KIngdom of Great Britain, then in the entire Middle East. I have seen it with my own healthy eyes and heard it with my sound system, Thank God.
Peace.
bravo great post! pr bravo bravo
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Peace,
Respectfully.Beautiful. Beautiful, man, this is an argument against you!
Good thing you quoted the right verse from The Quran - The BEST Hadith.How is the Quran commanding you to follow Allah and his Apostle (Muhamad,PBUH) which again is why we follow hadiths, arguments against following the Prophet's sayings?
459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger, and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
Do you honestly expect me to obey that "authority"?
No, i didn't think so.The Quran starts by commanding you to follow Allah and his prophet, when you do this you are not following the milosevic, being that you are devoid of hadith, you dont know that it is ibada to escape fearing allah not the enemy, or if you cannot, to stay and fight and the authority over you will be the leader among you in jihad resist the authority over you is the leadership among you
In that case, God tells us further in 459 that we shall refer it to God and His messenger, because God knows that the authority in the future - like year 2009 - will be evil and willw ant us to abandon The Quran in favour for their own laws, manmade laws.
Peace.Refer it to God and the Messenger is the Quran and Sunna, we can go back and forth on this but if you agree that matters are addressed by God and his messenger, you agree that his messenger has made decisions and made commands to his umma or muslims during his time yes? Please let me know if you disagree because its pointless to discuss hadiths and other Quran ayats with regards to the prophet, if you dont believe that Muhammad PBUH has made any commands to us as muslims that we have to follow.
One question for you where in The Quran does God The MOST Wise say to obey Muhammad?
I know that God The MOST Merciful says to obey the mesenger but where does He The MOST Powerul say to obey Muhammad?
Provide Quranic evidence, please.If Allah is not refereing to Muhamad (PBUH) when he orders us to obey the Messenger, who do you propose he is refering to?
God's Message can be brought to humans by another human.
Obviously God can send an angel but then people will start worshipping an angel.May The Exalted God The MOST Powerful, The MOST Merciful guide you and give us all Patience.
Peace.I am glad you mention this, The phophet PBUH brought the Quran to speak to the people in their language and manifest it in his life. Just like an instruction manual, the factory rep will show you how to use the machine. if the instruction manual implicitly asks that the customer OBEY the factory rep, you not only learn from the rep but have to follow his instructions. if Allah did not want us to follow Muhamad (PBUH) due to him being human or error prone or even evil, he would have said so implicitly to only follow the Quran.. If there is such a verse please provide,
an may Allah guide us all and give all patience -
Strange wow
Rev John,
Have you read my post? yes there was a gramatical error but you know what I was saying,
Again let me ask you in proper english. Please provide your source where Muhamad (PBUH) has asked that we only follow the quran. -
Rev John,
Have you read my post? yes there was a gramatical error but you know what I was saying,
Again let me ask you in proper english. Please provide your source where Muhamad (PBUH) has asked that we only follow the quran.are you sunni?
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How is the Quran commanding you to follow Allah and his Apostle (Muhamad,PBUH) which again is why we follow hadiths, arguments against following the Prophet's sayings?
The Quran starts by commanding you to follow Allah and his prophet, when you do this you are not following the milosevic, being that you are devoid of hadith, you dont know that it is ibada to escape fearing allah not the enemy, or if you cannot, to stay and fight and the authority over you will be the leader among you in jihad resist the authority over you is the leadership among you
Refer it to God and the Messenger is the Quran and Sunna, we can go back and forth on this but if you agree that matters are addressed by God and his messenger, you agree that his messenger has made decisions and made commands to his umma or muslims during his time yes? Please let me know if you disagree because its pointless to discuss hadiths and other Quran ayats with regards to the prophet, if you dont believe that Muhammad PBUH has made any commands to us as muslims that we have to follow.
If Allah is not refereing to Muhamad (PBUH) when he orders us to obey the Messenger, who do you propose he is refering to?I am glad you mention this, The phophet PBUH brought the Quran to speak to the people in their language and manifest it in his life. Just like an instruction manual, the factory rep will show you how to use the machine. if the instruction manual implicitly asks that the customer OBEY the factory rep, you not only learn from the rep but have to follow his instructions. if Allah did not want us to follow Muhamad (PBUH) due to him being human or error prone or even evil, he would have said so implicitly to only follow the Quran.. If there is such a verse please provide,
an may Allah guide us all and give all patienceCan I ask how do we obey the Prophet? The prophet did not leave us the hadith which you speak of. I am sure a portion of it is true but thousands and thousands of hadith are not. Also what about the 1000's that was regarded. Also if the prophet wanted to produce another book (other than the Quran) would you not think he would have personally seen that it was done properly under his control. Also, why was the hadith collection done over 100 years after the death of the prophet. The hadith the prophet bought to us is the Holy Quran, which came out of the prophets mouth so obey the prophet who uttered the words of the Quran which was revealed to him by angel Gabrial by Gods command.
"Obey GOD and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. And if you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to DELIVER CLEARLY.
Peace
Hope
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THE HADITH CONSPIRACY & THE DISTORTION OF ISLAM
By M. AsadiThe Koran and the History of Religion
Humankind were one community, then God sent prophets as bearers of good news and as warners and revealed with them the Book with the truth that it might judge between humankind concerning that in which they differed. And only those to whom the book was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had been given them, through mutual hatred and rivalry&127;(Koran 2213)
According to the Koran, as has been the case in the history of all the prophets (Koran 2530-33), Muslims have fallen victim to inventions against, the word of God, the Koran. These inventions have distorted the way that God sent down via all the prophets. The message that God has been sending down has been the same all throughout history, same in every way (Koran4213). Even though the Koran says in well over 15 places, that it is explained in detail, Tafseel (Koran 6114 etc.), and contains a full explanation of whatever is needed by a believer (Koran 1689), and should be enough, Kaafi, for them (Koran 2951), and contains the complete law (Shariah) of God (Koran 4518 and 4213), as against man-made law or Shariah (Koran 4221), "Muslims" insist that the Koran needs supplements to be understood, and lacks details. This amounts to disbelieving what God himself says in unequivocal terms in the Koran.The Koran and Hadith
The Koran states explicitly that the messenger's duty was only to convey (Balagh) the message (Koran 291 contained in the Koran (Koran 6944) and that the Koran was the only Wahi (revelation) given to the prophet to be conveyed to people (Koran 619), by testimony of God Himself. Therefore to follow the words of God in the Koran would be to follow the messenger. Thus following God is the same as following the messenger, who only conveyed the Koran (see Koran 480)
The inventions against the true words of God, revealed to the messengers, which is called their true speech (Qawl- Koran 6940) are the so called "Hadith" (stories about the sayings and doings of the prophets) as narrated by the writers of the Old Testament, the Gospels of Jesus (i.e. the "Hadith" about Jesus), and the various Hadith about the prophet Muhammed contained in the many "extra-Koranic" books believed in by the Sunni and Shia schools of thought. People have attributed these things throughout history to the messengers, whereas the messengers could never have said them given the history of the documents and the Criterion (Furqaan) of the Koran (Koran 2185) The Koran states
"Do they not consider the Koran with care, If it had been from anyone other than Allah, it would contain many discrepancies (Koran 482)."
Any document that claims to be from God, but in actuality is not would contain some form of error according to the Koran. What we see on analysis is that the Hadith attributed to Muhammed and the Gospels attributed to Jesus fail this test of authenticity. What we also see is the subjectivity of the various Muslims groups. They reject the Gospels of Jesus based on the same test as being corrupt whereas similar defects found in the books of Hadith are overlooked by them and they accept them as being authentic sayings of Muhammed. Let us have a look at the books of Hadith
Hadith are the various traditions contained in specific books, believed in by the majority of Muslims to be the sayings of the prophet Muhammed. These in the major part are extra-Koranic, i.e. from outside the Koran. They either contradict or add to the Koran. Muslims sometimes present them as an explanation of the Koran or as an integral part of Islamic law, even though the Koran does not confirm them.
A minority among the Muslims does not accept the various books of Hadith as being an accurate representation of what the prophet Muhammed said. They take the Koran as Criterion (Furqaan in Arabic), according to the Koran's own claim (2185), accepting only those Hadith which the Koran confirms and attests in totality. I represent that view in this paper. Opposition to the Hadith, and the whole body of extra-Koranic literature on Islam as doctrine, has existed from the earliest days of Islam. This is well documented by Shafi (died 204AH/ 819AD).
The Koran, historically predates any written Hadith and there is no mention of Hadith or the Sunna of the Prophet in what we possess as writings before the third century after the prophet. Koran and rationality based on its principles formed the basis of religion for first century Muslims (Rahman 1979). Thus contrary to being an innovation, following the Koran alone is historically the original Islam and hadith and other extra-Koranic literature is an innovation, introduced in its written form in the 3rd century after the prophet.
And they scattered not, those who were given the Book, except AFTER the clear sign came unto them. They were commanded only to serve God, making the way PURE for Him alone(Koran 981-) -
are you sunni?
I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhamad (based on sound hadiths) and I believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes I am.
Can I ask how do we obey the Prophet? The prophet did not leave us the hadith which you speak of. I am sure a portion of it is true
This is absolutely false,
I quote from a different website
"some 50 Companions and many followers are said to have possessed manuscripts (sahifah, Arabic plural suhuf), which was used as a term to designate compendia of Hadith that emerged during the century before the formation of the classical collections.
The original manuscripts have been lost, but a very few copies have survived. An example is the manuscript of Hammam ibn Munabbih, who learned from Abu Hurairah and from him he wrote his manuscript which contains 138 hadiths. This manuscript is believed to have been written down around the middle of the first century after the Hijrah
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Suppose among the hadith that is true, there is one that instructs you to do something that if you dont will cost you janna, being that you reject hadiths entirely, you reject the 'good' ones and cost your self janna.
As you know the Quran it self was memorized before it was written down, the first one being after the prophet's death, based on your logic you should also question the validity of the Quran.
Part of islam is faith, you have faith that Allah has protected his book and his deen and you see it manifested in your life.As your group likes to quote the hadith where the prophet commanded not to write down hadiths, (during the time that the quran was being revealed piece meal, he later allowed it and there is plenty of proof of this)
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I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhamad (based on sound hadiths) and I believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes I am..
What do you mean by 'sound hadiths' then?
Those that are stamped 'sahih' by Sunni Ulema or those which are stamped 'sahih' by Shiah Ulema? Or do you use other criteria?Salam / Peace
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I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhamad (based on sound hadiths) and I believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes I am
1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
1747 We are fully aware of what they are listening to when they are listening to you, and when they conspire secretly the wicked say, "You are but following a bewitched man!"
1748 See how they cite the examples for you. They have gone astray, and cannot come to the path.
456 These are God's signs that We recite to you with truth. So, which hadith, after God and His signs, do they acknowledge?
Do you believe that Muhammad preached the Quran and that the word of the Quran came out of his mouth? If so, why do you not obey him, and more importantly why do you disobey God?
2530 The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
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1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
1747 We are fully aware of what they are listening to when they are listening to you, and when they conspire secretly the wicked say, "You are but following a bewitched man!"
1748 See how they cite the examples for you. They have gone astray, and cannot come to the path.
456 These are God's signs that We recite to you with truth. So, which hadith, after God and His signs, do they acknowledge?
Do you believe that Muhammad preached the Quran and that the word of the Quran came out of his mouth? If so, why do you not obey him, and more importantly why do you diobey God?
2530 The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Very well explained bravo bravo bravo
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1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
1747 We are fully aware of what they are listening to when they are listening to you, and when they conspire secretly the wicked say, "You are but following a bewitched man!"
1748 See how they cite the examples for you. They have gone astray, and cannot come to the path.
456 These are God's signs that We recite to you with truth. So, which hadith, after God and His signs, do they acknowledge?
Do you believe that Muhammad preached the Quran and that the word of the Quran came out of his mouth? If so, why do you not obey him, and more importantly why do you disobey God?
2530 The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
The bod part is killer &
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1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
Do you believe that Muhammad preached the Quran and that the word of the Quran came out of his mouth? If so, why do you not obey him, and more importantly why do you disobey God?
2530 The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
I believe that muhamad PBUH conveyed the Quran, explained it and in addition to guiding us through this short life of ours which is full of seen and unseen obstacles. you my friend have prevented your self of this vast knowledge and I believe there will be signs in your life.
no other reason that Allah commands us to folllow him and his prophet. Him=Quran his prophet=hadith