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  4. Quran only?

Quran only?

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  • B Offline
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    becarefull-_knowledge
    wrote on last edited by
    #48

    1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.

    Do you believe that Muhammad preached the Quran and that the word of the Quran came out of his mouth? If so, why do you not obey him, and more importantly why do you disobey God?

    2530 The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

    I believe that muhamad PBUH conveyed the Quran, explained it and in addition to guiding us through this short life of ours which is full of seen and unseen obstacles. you my friend have prevented your self of this vast knowledge and I believe there will be signs in your life.
    no other reason that Allah commands us to folllow him and his prophet. Him=Quran his prophet=hadith

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      No longer a Sunna-rejecter
      wrote on last edited by
      #49

      I believe that muhamad PBUH conveyed the Quran, explained it and in addition to guiding us through this short life of ours which is full of seen and unseen obstacles. you my friend have prevented your self of this vast knowledge and I believe there will be signs in your life.
      no other reason that Allah commands us to folllow him and his prophet. Him=Quran his prophet=hadith

      What are you talking about? That is some weird 'logic' you have.

      91 This is an ultimatum from God and His messenger to those who set up partners with whom you had entered a treaty.

      Edip-Layth - End Note 1 (91)
      Those who abuse the Quranic statement "obey God and His messenger," to mean obeying the Quran and numerous books of hearsay, are convicted by this verse. By claiming that God is represented by the Quran, but the messenger is represented by hearsay collections produced centuries after Muhammad, they separate God and messenger from each other (4150). Verse 91 attributes the ultimatum issued in this chapter to "God and His messenger." Since, God did not author the Quran in consultation with Muhammad, the only reason why the messenger was mentioned after God, is that the messenger will deliver the ultimatum as it is, like a trustworthy mailman. Thus, we should use similar inferences when we see verses telling us to "obey God and His messenger." Those verses do not mean God and His messenger represent different authorities or sources, but simply mean, "Obey God by obeying the message brought to you through His messenger." In the Quran we do not see a single verse instructing us to "obey Muhammad" or "obey Moses;" the verses always refer to obeying the messenger, since messengers' sole mission is to deliver God's message without distorting, adding, or subtracting from it. The messenger, on the Day of Judgment (2530), will reject those who distort, add to, and subtract from God's message by hearsay. It is also noteworthy that the verb used for God and His messenger in 824 is in its singular form. Remind verse 6114 to the polytheists who wish to raise Muhammad from the position of messengership to the position of legislator next to God. Also, see 491.

      2530 The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

      BTW, do you see any verse in the Quran telling us to follow Hadiths or where the messenger complains that people are deserting Hadiths?

      6112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire in each other fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

      6113 That is so the hearts of those who do not acknowledge the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.

      I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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        Alen
        wrote on last edited by
        #50

        I hear you bro bravo handshake I got to say though I give selam to my right and left when I pray. Have I missed something or overlooked something.
        Peace
        Hope

        Peace,
        Respectfully.

        To whom or to what do you give selam when you turn right and left, if you don't mind my asking?
        I don't want to be noisy but i'm just interested, because i didn't find this instruction in The Quran and since i obey the prophet - who followed The Quran - i believe that turning the ehad at the end of the prayer to right or left, is not compulsory, Not Quranic.

        Peace.

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        • H Offline
          H Offline
          hope4
          wrote on last edited by
          #51

          Peace,
          Respectfully.

          To whom or to what do you give selam when you turn right and left, if you don't mind my asking?
          I don't want to be noisy but i'm just interested, because i didn't find this instruction in The Quran and since i obey the prophet - who followed The Quran - i believe that turning the ehad at the end of the prayer to right or left, is not compulsory, Not Quranic.

          Peace.

          Peace Alen

          I argee that it is not in the Quran. I have read in some place you are giving selam to the two angels which record your good/bad deeds. Also, some peple say its giving selam to people who pray left/right with you in a mosque. However, I pray most of the time on my own. I really dont have an answer why I do it but only reason is habit or how I was taught. As I read more and understand more I will, lets say possibly grow out of it yes

          Peace and God bless

          Hope

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          • H Offline
            H Offline
            hope4
            wrote on last edited by
            #52

            Peace

            Just found this in the books of Hadith about turning right and left when praying. Seems like they are a little confusing.

            Translation of Sahih Muslim

            Chapter 101 PERMISSIBILITY OF TURNING TO THE RIGHT AND LEFT IN PRAYER


            Book 004, Number 1525
            Abdullah reported None of you should give a share to Satan out of your self. He should not deem that it is necessary for him to turn but to the right only (after prayer). I saw the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turning to the left.


            Book 004, Number 1526
            A hadith like this has been narrated by A'mash, with the same chain of transmitters.


            Book 004, Number 1527
            Suddi reported I asked Anas how I should turn-to the right or to the left-when I say my prayers. He said I have very often seen the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turning to the right.


            Book 004, Number 1528
            Anas reported The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to turn to the right (at the end of the prayer).

            Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 8

            Volume 1, Book 8, Number 394

            Narrated 'Abdullah
            The Prophet prayed (and the subnarrator Ibrahim said, "I do not know whether he prayed more or less than usual&quot, and when he had finished the prayers he was asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Has there been any change in the prayers?" He said, "What is it?' The people said, "You have prayed so much and so much." So the Prophet bent his legs, faced the Qibla and performed two prostrations (of Sahu) and finished his prayers with Tasiim (by turning his face to right and left saying 'As-Salamu'Alaikum-Warahmat-ullah&#039. When he turned his face to us he said, "If there had been anything changed in the prayer, surely I would have informed you but I am a human being like you and liable to forget like you. So if I forget remind me and if anyone of you is doubtful about his prayer, he should follow what he thinks to be correct and complete his prayer accordingly and finish it and do two prostrations (of Sahu)."

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            • N Offline
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              nerspi
              wrote on last edited by
              #53

              i'm sure there's gotta be something there to the whole 'obay the messenger' and not 'obey muhammad' thing... God picks words carefully, plus muhammad was apparently so just he didn't even wanna trick people and say that yes God told them it's 'obey muhammad', wouldn't that give him more power, authority... .but he said that He said 'obey the messenger'...

              I believe that muhamad PBUH conveyed the Quran, explained it and in addition to guiding us through this short life of ours which is full of seen and unseen obstacles. you my friend have prevented your self of this vast knowledge and I believe there will be signs in your life.
              no other reason that Allah commands us to folllow him and his prophet. Him=Quran his prophet=hadith

              exactly how does hadith explain quran, when most are contradiction to it, others are contradicting itself, yet others have nothing to do with anything. and the chain of narration is no more no less, what makes those narrators credible? where is their history written to prove they're just, fair, honest, sane...
              when you look at all hadith followers from afar you see ones follow one narrations others follow others, disproving others... so which chain is right, hmm, they say we "queranists" can't find common griound on issues like salat, ramadan... as if following hadith is any different... who is more devided... and how does each group deal with their division? ...
              no offense, but the only people i've seen depriving themselves of vast knowledge are ones who follow hadith, and ones who follow only quran i've seen are more open to knowledge.

              Can I ask how do we obey the Prophet? The prophet did not leave us the hadith which you speak of. I am sure a portion of it is true but thousands and thousands of hadith are not. Also what about the 1000's that was regarded. Also if the prophet wanted to produce another book (other than the Quran) would you not think he would have personally seen that it was done properly under his control. Also, why was the hadith collection done over 100 years after the death of the prophet. The hadith the prophet bought to us is the Holy Quran, which came out of the prophets mouth so obey the prophet who uttered the words of the Quran which was revealed to him by angel Gabrial by Gods command.

              exactly,
              lets think about that for a sec, all that time he was among people, 23 years of revelation time, and he did not find one minute to give a simple instruction to somebody to monitor him, to write down everything he does and says so that they may follow it after he's gone... in fact, even in hadith it does say he instructed them to not write anything from him except quran... yes i heard explanation for that hadith and what a fake/weak explanation it was...

              and not only that after his death his family members would think of compiling his sayings, actions, not even close friends, neighbours... not even the next generation, no, no, no, a guy had to come from persia or wherever and spend what, 16 years i heard, collecting + verfying all the things he heard about him, and only picked 1% of it all... yes that does make sense indeed.

              apparently people who knew him best, if there is one thing they learned from him is sharing knowledge, and they didn't do it, they kept it unwritten, they kept it to themselves, apparently he did not tell them following his hadith or sunnah is of any importance, so they didn't write it down, if he had implied they should, they would, simple logic.
              quran on the other hand, was compiled right away, and by him, yes, he could write. i won't believe that 'him being illiterate' story for one sec.

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                F Offline
                farida
                wrote on last edited by
                #54

                i'm sure there's gotta be something there to the whole 'obay the messenger' and not 'obey muhammad' thing... God picks words carefully, plus muhammad was apparently so just he didn't even wanna trick people and say that yes God told them it's 'obey muhammad', wouldn't that give him more power, authority... .but he said that He said 'obey the messenger'...

                exactly how does hadith explain quran, when most are contradiction to it, others are contradicting itself, yet others have nothing to do with anything. and the chain of narration is no more no less, what makes those narrators credible? where is their history written to prove they're just, fair, honest, sane...
                when you look at all hadith followers from afar you see ones follow one narrations others follow others, disproving others... so which chain is right, hmm, they say we "queranists" can't find common griound on issues like salat, ramadan... as if following hadith is any different... who is more devided... and how does each group deal with their division? ...
                no offense, but the only people i've seen depriving themselves of vast knowledge are ones who follow hadith, and ones who follow only quran i've seen are more open to knowledge.

                exactly,
                lets think about that for a sec, all that time he was among people, 23 years of revelation time, and he did not find one minute to give a simple instruction to somebody to monitor him, to write down everything he does and says so that they may follow it after he's gone... in fact, even in hadith it does say he instructed them to not write anything from him except quran... yes i heard explanation for that hadith and what a fake/weak explanation it was...

                and not only that after his death his family members would think of compiling his sayings, actions, not even close friends, neighbours... not even the next generation, no, no, no, a guy had to come from persia or wherever and spend what, 16 years i heard, collecting + verfying all the things he heard about him, and only picked 1% of it all... yes that does make sense indeed.

                apparently people who knew him best, if there is one thing they learned from him is sharing knowledge, and they didn't do it, they kept it unwritten, they kept it to themselves, apparently he did not tell them following his hadith or sunnah is of any importance, so they didn't write it down, if he had implied they should, they would, simple logic.
                quran on the other hand, was compiled right away, and by him, yes, he could write. i won't believe that 'him being illiterate' story for one sec.

                Excellent !!! sun
                peace

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Meteora
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #55

                  The bod part is killer &

                  Do you want me to smack you?! voodoo elektro

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    MUNZIR_ALI
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #56

                    Do you want me to smack you?! voodoo elektro

                    yes! But can you? laugh

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      MUNZIR_ALI
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #57

                      I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhamad (based on sound hadiths) and I believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes I am.

                      How do you know that the hadith is authentic? handshake

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                      • I Offline
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                        izukage
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #58

                        Salam..

                        I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhamad (based on sound hadiths) and I believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes I am.

                        I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad (which tell us to uphold Al-Qur'an) and i believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes i am.

                        in reality, the majority of Sunni call me a kafir...
                        but i don't really care about human opinion about me (including the "holy" human opinion), what i really care is becoming a good Muslim in God's eyes..

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                        • A Offline
                          A Offline
                          afridi220
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #59

                          Do you want me to smack you?! voodoo elektro

                          hypno

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                          • R Offline
                            R Offline
                            Rev_John
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #60

                            Salam..

                            I follow the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad (which tell us to uphold Al-Qur'an) and i believe in all the prophets sent before him. If that is sunni, then yes i am.

                            in reality, the majority of Sunni call me a kafir...
                            but i don't really care about human opinion about me (including the "holy" human opinion), what i really care is becoming a good Muslim in God's eyes.

                            I agree, all I care about is being a good person and being accepted by God, I don't care what religion I am.

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              becarefull-_knowledge
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #61

                              Very well explained bravo bravo bravo

                              WHat is explained, 4 ayats were quoted here and the last one in bold type.
                              I dont know which translation you are using but this is Yusuf Ali version
                              29. "He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah. after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!" Then the Messenger will say

                              1. "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

                              2. Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.

                              You guys must love this ayat in YOUR translation 'my people rejected this Quran', and want to make a new religion based on it. you cant , you cannot make up such a dynamic inference based on 1 ayat you have to read before and after and ponder the general meaning

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                              • B Offline
                                B Offline
                                becarefull-_knowledge
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #62

                                What do you mean by 'sound hadiths' then?
                                Those that are stamped 'sahih' by Sunni Ulema or those which are stamped 'sahih' by Shiah Ulema? Or do you use other criteria?

                                Salam / Peace

                                I mean sound hadiths as in perserved over time, proven in real life like the ones prohesizing a lot of the status of the world today and how we are near the Qiyama. and Yes Bukhari may Allah reward him for all his efforts and sacrifices
                                Could there be a chance of one or two inaccurate hadiths, maybe, will i reject the books of hadiths in its entiry absolutely not, i am mitigating a strong risk of the hellfire
                                how do I know the hadith have validity, I havent seen any that contradict the Quran and I am sure you have many bring and them on and lets discuss them
                                in addition, my favorite ayats in the quran is 'to those who believe we show clear signs'

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                                  becarefull-_knowledge
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #63

                                  I agree, all I care about is being a good person and being accepted by God, I don't care what religion I am.

                                  Here is where we can agree,
                                  I pray to God who created the heavens and the earths, to guide us to that path in which he will be pleased with us.

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                                  • B Offline
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                                    becarefull-_knowledge
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #64

                                    What are you talking about? That is some weird 'logic' you have.

                                    no its quite simple, a follower of someone as in a religious figure, believes in their message and obeys their command. Allah has instructed us to obey him and his messenger.
                                    His messenger had a lot to say in his x amount of years as a prophet and folks around him listened and memorized it just as they memorized the quran, May Allah bless their soul and guide us all.

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                                      becarefull-_knowledge
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #65

                                      I just dont understand how you can overcomplicate something so simple, Those who obey GOD obery HIS MESSENGER
                                      Also let me reiterate, HADITH COLLECTION STARTED AT THE TIME OF THE Prophet, please cease with this collected centuries later nonsense. it was compiled and authenticated centuries later (if its BUkhari that you are refering to)Also, if you consider hadith HEARSAY YOU MIGHT AS Well consider the Quran hearsay because it was memorized by Muhamad's followers and passed down, compiled after his death.
                                      you are walking on a tight rope when you are obeying one teaching (The Quran) and rejected the tafsir from GOD's Messenger (The hadiths).
                                      Another point is that the Quran was a book of guidance and wisdom, But from most of the historical evidence and dare i say it hadiths, you see that there was a much more practical foundation layed out by Muhamad for the muslims, which is seen in the biographies of their lives after his death, most of this detailed 'life manual' was not specified in the Quran, the Quran instructed us to follow him (muhamad), which you all will not be doing.

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                                        SarahY
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #66

                                        I haven't been keeping up with this thread but i thought i'd reply to you becarefull- knowledge

                                        now before i reply i want to ask, how do you or muslims obey God? serious question.

                                        Lets assume you're right and hadith collection started at the time of the prophet. why didn't the prophet verify them?
                                        I believe you're wrong in saying that Quran was written after the death of the prophet, hadith shows contrary to this. Remember the story of Umar ibn khattab how he become muslim, his sister had quranic verses, others did also. Quran was there while prophet was alive.

                                        What gives Bukhari the ultimate superiority of verification? if you read ahadith from albukhari and you read ahadith from Quran, you will inevitably notice quite a difference, even contradictions. Also, there are sunni scholars who argue against Bukhari's verifications such as Albani. Even shia's argue against the authority of Bukhari's collection and Bukhari is considered the "MOST" authentic. why do muslism seek a source that is fallible to a source that is authentic? it seems odd.

                                        So you're of the belief because we don't adhere to contradicting religious regulations in hadith that makes us deviants because we dont follow the supposed way of Mohammed? where is the proof that hadith = sunnah? Bukhari's ahadith are not just limited to the Prophet Mohammed you will see alot of commentary of Abu Huraira in it, even comments by Omar (possibly others, haven't looked that far). sounds to me it has become hadith and sunnah of al sahabi and their views of the prophets practices.

                                        apparently in hadith Aisha said the prophet was the walking Quran, so why would it be wrong to follow Quran? we obey the messenger by following the Quran..

                                        Salam

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                                          U Offline
                                          UmAlawi
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #67

                                          I believe that muhamad PBUH conveyed the Quran, explained it and in addition to guiding us through this short life of ours which is full of seen and unseen obstacles. you my friend have prevented your self of this vast knowledge and I believe there will be signs in your life.
                                          no other reason that Allah commands us to folllow him and his prophet. Him=Quran his prophet=hadith

                                          Peace Becarefull Knowledge

                                          Who teaches the Qur'an?

                                          Please read
                                          Surah 39 verse 23 (3923)
                                          Surah 39 verse 55 (3955)
                                          Surah 87 verse 6 (876)
                                          Surah 2 verse 282 (2282)

                                          Who Explains?

                                          123
                                          2776

                                          Who guides us?

                                          226
                                          2142
                                          2213
                                          2272
                                          516
                                          688
                                          7155
                                          7178
                                          109
                                          1025
                                          1035
                                          1327
                                          144
                                          1693
                                          1797
                                          1817
                                          2050
                                          2216
                                          2446
                                          2678
                                          2763
                                          2856
                                          346
                                          358
                                          3923
                                          3937
                                          4213
                                          4630
                                          646
                                          7431
                                          873

                                          Have a look, and May Allah Guide us all aright

                                          Peace

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