Reforming Islam
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Actually, it is islamic reform, NOT reforming Islam, although technically reforming the capitalised/title Islam is acceptable I guess.
Feel free to create such a topic, even though it has been discussed in many threads, but perhaps not a dedicated thread.
Good correction of grammar (hang on, was that grammatically correct?). I think it would be an interesting thread.
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So why not create a dedicated thread/category to discuss reform in the Abrahamic religion.
thats a good idea too! yay
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So why not create a dedicated thread/category to discuss reform in the Abrahamic religion.
What is the "Abrahamic religion"? The Abraham's religion (i.e. "millat Ibrahiym" is Islaam, total monotheism and peaceful submission to Allah alone. Jews also consider themselves an Abrahamic religion, since they're his "spiritual" descendants and they serve Allah alone, ascribing no partners to Him; but I've never heard a Christian calling their religion "Abrahamic", especially not the orthodox sects of Christianity...
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What is the "Abrahamic religion"? The Abraham's religion (i.e. "millat Ibrahiym" is Islaam, total monotheism and peaceful submission to Allah alone. Jews also consider themselves an Abrahamic religion, since they're his "spiritual" descendants and they serve Allah alone, ascribing no partners to Him; but I've never heard a Christian calling their religion "Abrahamic", especially not the orthodox sects of Christianity...
Well you haven't talked to many. All Christian denominations and sects consider Christianity to be "Abrahamic" it is a fundamental part of the religion.
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Well you haven't talked to many. All Christian denominations and sects consider Christianity to be "Abrahamic" it is a fundamental part of the religion.
That's a pretty interesting concept, but I have talked to many Christians. Like I once said, I used to be a Christian myself and an avid studier of the Bible, and I've never heard Christianity called "Abrahamic", especially not among other Christians. Abraham followed the early guidance of Allah, which was expounded upon through the Torah. This is why Judaism ("Yahaduth" is considered to be an Abrahamic religion. Islaam upholds the same principles, especially monotheism, since it bases it's teachings off what Abraham received from Allah, which is expounded upon in both the Torah and the Qur'aan... Christianity, on the other hand, rejects the Torah (i.e. law of Moses), claiming that it is no longer applicable to the people. Therefore, they're rejecting the religion that Allah taught to Abraham. Their religion, according to them, started with Jesus and his "new covenant", making the "old covenant" (Abrahamic religion) obsolete. Abraham could never have been considered a Christian, since Christianity is founded upon the doctrines of Jesus; Abraham knew nothing of Jesus. Abraham was, however, a pure monotheist, and he peacefully submitted wholeheartedly to the One God, which are taught in both Judaism and Islaam. That's why many Jews will say that Abraham was a Jew (which is partially correct) and Muslims will say that Abraham was a "muslim" (which is correct). You'll never see a Christian claiming that Abraham was a Christian, though, and this is because Abraham's beliefs and Christianity were not compatible. AT ALL. Therefore, Christianity can't be an Abrahamic religion...
The concept of Christianity being "Abrahamic" is most likely based on the false reasoning that Christianity is derived from Judaism. Again, that's also completely wrong; Judaism and Christianity are incompatible. Now, whether that's considered a fundamental part of the Christian religion or not is beyond me; maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. You'd probably know better than me, since you're a reverend. But, like I said, I've never heard of that being a real Christian doctrine or a fundamental part of the religion.
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That's a pretty interesting concept, but I have talked to many Christians. Like I once said, I used to be a Christian myself and an avid studier of the Bible, and I've never heard Christianity called "Abrahamic", especially not among other Christians. Abraham followed the early guidance of Allah, which was expounded upon through the Torah. This is why Judaism ("Yahaduth" is considered to be an Abrahamic religion. Islaam upholds the same principles, especially monotheism, since it bases it's teachings off what Abraham received from Allah, which is expounded upon in both the Torah and the Qur'aan... Christianity, on the other hand, rejects the Torah (i.e. law of Moses), claiming that it is no longer applicable to the people. Therefore, they're rejecting the religion that Allah taught to Abraham. Their religion, according to them, started with Jesus and his "new covenant", making the "old covenant" (Abrahamic religion) obsolete. Abraham could never have been considered a Christian, since Christianity is founded upon the doctrines of Jesus; Abraham knew nothing of Jesus. Abraham was, however, a pure monotheist, and he peacefully submitted wholeheartedly to the One God, which are taught in both Judaism and Islaam. That's why many Jews will say that Abraham was a Jew (which is partially correct) and Muslims will say that Abraham was a "muslim" (which is correct). You'll never see a Christian claiming that Abraham was a Christian, though, and this is because Abraham's beliefs and Christianity were not compatible. AT ALL. Therefore, Christianity can't be an Abrahamic religion...
The concept of Christianity being "Abrahamic" is most likely based on the false reasoning that Christianity is derived from Judaism. Again, that's also completely wrong; Judaism and Christianity are incompatible. Now, whether that's considered a fundamental part of the Christian religion or not is beyond me; maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. You'd probably know better than me, since you're a reverend. But, like I said, I've never heard of that being a real Christian doctrine or a fundamental part of the religion.
I'm amazed you didn't hear it before, it is a recognised fact in Christianity that it evolved from Judaism, although I have to admit, there are some that do not even realise that Jesus was a Jew, hence the many picture showing him as a white European. I did once meet a baptist Christian that argued that Jesus was not Jewish and only Christians had the "true" God. But then he was mentally challenged.
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I'm amazed you didn't hear it before, it is a recognised fact in Christianity that it evolved from Judaism, although I have to admit, there are some that do not even realise that Jesus was a Jew, hence the many picture showing him as a white European. I did once meet a baptist Christian that argued that Jesus was not Jewish and only Christians had the "true" God. But then he was mentally challenged.
wow Jesus, NOT Jewish?! I've definately never heard that one before. I thought everyone accepted Jesus as a Jew, except for some of the Jewish people of course... I've seen pictures of people depicting Jesus as a white European, but I thought this was just media influence. The movie "The Ten Commandments" depicted Moses and Ramses as white Europeans, even though everybody knows they were black-skinned Egyptians... When it comes to Christianity evolving from Judaism, it depends on how you look at that concept. I don't think Christianity evolved from Judaism, even though the original Christians were Jews, including Jesus. But of course, by their designation, they weren't Christians, they were Nazarenes. It all depends on the perspective of the viewer...
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I'm amazed you didn't hear it before, it is a recognised fact in Christianity that it evolved from Judaism, although I have to admit, there are some that do not even realise that Jesus was a Jew, hence the many picture showing him as a white European. I did once meet a baptist Christian that argued that Jesus was not Jewish and only Christians had the "true" God. But then he was mentally challenged.
I like that word 'mentally challenged'. rotfl As for Islamic reform, shall we call it Bukari part 2 rotfl I can see a sequel to this rotfl I don't think we need Islamic reform, but rather exposing the truth! However, if you mean reform as reversion to a pure original state of Islam, then what we need to do first is research. For example, to understand something we must go to the root. I believe this will not happen for many reasons
- A great deal of funding is required for archaeological research. Who will fund it? Who will be the beneficials?
- Access is needed to Arabia to do research. Will they give permission to people who have no bias angle to this study?
- Most muslims feel they already know the truth, they have volumes of hearsay to prove everything!
- Lastly people are probably scared of finding the truth. Two reasons for this, 1st it could change their fundamental practises which will probably make them feel stupid and 2nd people may feel it gives access to the devil to lead people off the right path.
Also people who want the reform must have solid proof that there is a need for change. I just feel its not as easy as it looks and first we as individuals need to reform before we consider a mass reform. I hope I haven't offended anyone by saying this and hope God will lead us on the right path.
Peace
Hope
