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  2. Critical Examination of Islam
  3. Quranic Divinity
  4. Producing something "similar to it"

Producing something "similar to it"

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Quranic Divinity
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  • B Offline
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    Bahman
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    I didn't. I simply rephrased it from 'ahaqqu an yuttabaAAa amman la yahiddee illa an yuhda ' (more deserving that its followed than he who isn't guided unless he is guided himself'. To me, this makes Quran 'better'.

    For me and other 7 million earth population would not be easy to find out if this one is better than Quran but simple just by learning only one letter "Q" i see difference.

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      Bahman
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      I don't mean that because as far as I can see, killing each other isn't following Quran's commands.

      So no matter what kind of message be revealed , they do what they like to do. It is not meaning of messages as they are complete and detailed.
      3184

      If they reject you, messengers before you have been rejected, even though they brought proofs, the Psalms, and the enlightening scripture.
      4163

      We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.
      1755

      Your Lord is the best knower of everyone in the heavens and the earth. In accordance with this knowledge, we preferred some prophets over others. For example, we gave David the Psalms.
      21105

      We have decreed in the Psalms, as well as in other scriptures, that the earth shall be inherited by My righteous worshipers.
      3525

      If they disbelieve you, those before them have also disbelieved. Their messengers went to them with clear proofs, and the Psalms, and the enlightening scriptures.

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        abdalquran
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        For me and other 7 million earth population would not be easy to find out if this one is better than Quran but simple just by learning only one letter "Q" i see difference.

        You're not reading the context of 10/38. It's got nothing to do with numerical structures if they exist. It's talking about Quran as a work to guide mankind.

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          sarah2505
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          You're not reading the context of 10/38. It's got nothing to do with numerical structures if they exist. It's talking about Quran as a work to guide mankind.

          that is true. It is strange that the so called gematrical values came into widespread use only a few hundred years after the Quran was written down

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            Bahman
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            You're not reading the context of 10/38. It's got nothing to do with numerical structures if they exist. It's talking about Quran as a work to guide mankind.

            This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD.

            Do you have proof?

            It confirms all previous messages,

            How it can confirm without proof.?

            and provides a fully detailed scripture.

            It is infallible,

            What is proof?

            for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

            What is proof ?

            If they say, "He fabricated it,"

            Writing is fabrication ? Repeating same messages in previous scripture is fabrication ?
            Or revealing secret of 7 pairs is?

            say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."

            God did not know future?

            God did not know that they will produce one like those that you people think ?

            Indeed, they have rejected this without studying and examining it,
            Examining what ?
            Text for accuracy?
            Meaning ?
            What is there that God hints examining. ?

            and before understanding it.

            Have you understood Miracle?

            When confirms all previous scriptures then why should be examined?

            Thus did those before them disbelieve.

            Messages do not end with me and you. Future generations will read same and find on this screen how you poeple due to your connection to your past belief reject it.
            Therefore, note the consequences for the transgressors

            A.L.R. These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom
            A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture
            131] A. L. M. R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you
            fr
            A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound om your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
            T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
            These (letters) constitute proofs of this clarifying scripture
            A. L. M.
            These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
            S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proof.
            Tomorrow is late.
            08/10/2009 94250 PM
            Peace

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            • B Offline
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              Bahman
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              that is true. It is strange that the so called gematrical values came into widespread use only a few hundred years after the Quran was written down

              A little search )

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              • A Offline
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                abdalquran
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Bahman, apologies but I?m really appalled at the way you have manipulated translations to justify your code. Instead of a neutral analysis, you?ve basically changed the Quran into a code-book!

                This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD.

                Do you have proof?

                I do have proof yes. And better yet, my proof was predicted by Quran itself. 4153

                Soon will We show them our Signs in the horizon and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?

                Does your 19 have this type of phraseology, Bahman? 19 is the count of the malaika over saqar. That?s all it is.

                It confirms all previous messages,

                How it can confirm without proof.?

                Firstly, the phrase ?all previous messages? isn?t even there. You call me about for saying ?better than Quran? yet you quote this so carelessly. Come on.

                It says ?tasdiqa alladhina bayna yadaihi?, it confirms that which its between its two hands/capacities. This means that whatever reality you have before you, Quran has it neatly categorised and predicted.

                and provides a fully detailed scripture.

                It is infallible,

                What is proof?

                Again, ?fully detailed scripture? isn?t there. It just says Quran details the book no doubt in it (tafseel al-kitab laa raiba fihi).

                for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

                What is proof ?

                If they say, "He fabricated it,"

                Writing is fabrication ? Repeating same messages in previous scripture is fabrication ?
                Or revealing secret of 7 pairs is?

                Again, you?re not reading context. See 10/35. 10/35 talks about guidance towards al-haqq. This has nothing to do with any code. Can any book guide as well as Quran? THAT?S the question.

                say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."

                God did not know future?

                God did not know that they will produce one like those that you people think ?

                So what if they do?

                Indeed, they have rejected this without studying and examining it,
                Examining what ?
                Text for accuracy?
                Meaning ?
                What is there that God hints examining. ?

                Go back to CONTEXT please. Look above.

                and before understanding it.

                Have you understood Miracle?

                When confirms all previous scriptures then why should be examined?

                Thus did those before them disbelieve.

                Messages do not end with me and you. Future generations will read same and find on this screen how you poeple due to your connection to your past belief reject it.
                Therefore, note the consequences for the transgressors

                Yeah, so that?s why we need the miracle? So future generations will appreciate Quran? Will future generation also have human needs such as theology, morality and society? Then without any ?miracle?, Quran would be relevant. Sir, your preoccupation with this code has made you forget this.

                A.L.R. These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom
                A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture
                131] A. L. M. R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you
                fr
                A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound om your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
                T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
                These (letters) constitute proofs of this clarifying scripture
                A. L. M.
                These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
                S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proof.

                Firstly, in none of these ayaat are the words ?letters? present. Secondly, Quran has another word for proof, ?burhaan?. Ayaat as used above as ?signs?. Thirdly 38/1 doesn?t say ?quran that contains the proof?. It says ?and the Quran, possessor of adh-dhikr/the eminent/.

                I?m very glad that you seek for proof. That?s how it should be for believers but let me ask you this. Why did code 19 not arise with the coming of Quran itself? If muslims were meant to follow only evidenced facts, then why were they left with a flawed scripture for 1400 years?

                Muslims immediately took to RK?s code when it first came out. Ahmed Deedat published a booklet on it even. Yet for 1400 years, Muslims didn?t know about this code which is essential as Quran?s ?proof? ?

                Some reasoning is called for here.

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                • U Offline
                  U Offline
                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Yeah, so that?s why we need the miracle? So future generations will appreciate Quran? Will future generation also have human needs such as theology, morality and society? Then without any ?miracle?, Quran would be relevant. Sir, your preoccupation with this code has made you forget this.

                  It is a disease

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                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    Bahman
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Bahman, apologies but I?m really appalled at the way you have manipulated translations to justify your code. Instead of a neutral analysis, you?ve basically changed the Quran into a code-book!

                    Peace
                    I will be back next few days ,very busy. )
                    Peace

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                    • B Offline
                      B Offline
                      Bahman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Bahman, apologies but I?m really appalled at the way you have manipulated translations to justify your code. Instead of a neutral analysis, you?ve basically changed the Quran into a code-book!

                      Took more than few day busy with other topics.
                      Actually you are right and all book cover to cover is a digital book. Praise be to God Lord of universe giving this chance to me to witness His greatness in design and knowledge that 1400 years later with access to such knowledge and tools we are not able to to produce one.
                      Recent discovery which is under verification I would be end to any claim unless they can produce one.
                      You are right Quran is code book preserving our creator messages

                      I do have proof yes. And better yet, my proof was predicted by Quran itself. 4153
                      Soon will We show them our Signs in the horizon and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?

                      1000 years of our life is one day of God's time so SOON by His time . Horizon is not physical ending of sky to earth surface. It means future.
                      Are you waiting yet for future? are you expecting God visit you personally? What better sign for existence of such Creator for people like me .
                      What is bothering you if i like to believe in code and believe that God exist because of Code and believe that messages are His too.

                      Does your 19 have this type of phraseology, Bahman?

                      http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598967.msg226394#msg226394
                      A.L.R. These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom
                      A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture
                      131] A. L. M. R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you
                      fr
                      A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound om your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
                      T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
                      These (letters) constitute proofs of this clarifying scripture
                      A. L. M.
                      These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.

                      19 is the count of the malaika over saqar. That?s all it is.

                      You mean in the day of Judgement God disturbs you or you are disturbed right now.? Do you believe that test is nor ending in this life and God is testing and disturbing us in Hell?
                      Do you know what Sijjeen is?
                      A numerically structured book. Woe on that day to the rejectors. They do not believe in the Day of Judgment. ( they think they have to go to Saqar to check number of angel first) None disbelieves therein except the transgressor, the sinful. When our revelations are recited to him, he says, "Tales from the past!" ( man Made) Indeed, their hearts have become shielded by their sins.
                      Indeed, they will be isolated, on that day, from their Lord. (Our visbsle body is due to following Stan and our soul is connected to our creation source, this sould is effected by 5 body senses to follow Satan, corrupted and rotten souls would be disconnected ) Then they will be thrown into Hell. They will be told, "This is what you used to deny." ( you burnt Original for covering up your Scheme to bring Prophet to God' level as Raheem to make opportunity to be leader of people and give any Fetwa you desired and when we showed the truth that those 2 verses was added for g power greed and abusing God's word to force masses by sword to obey you and your decedents too. You killed our new bearer for such fabrication and you brainwashed your children to follow what you sat up for power) Indeed, the book of the righteous will be in Elleyyeen. Do you know what Elleyyeen is? ( do you know?) A numerically structured book. To be witnessed by those close to Me.

                      Firstly, the phrase ?all previous messages? isn?t even there.

                      You call me about for saying ?better than Quran? yet you quote this so carelessly. Come on
                      .
                      would you explain more in detail.

                      It says ?tasdiqa alladhina bayna yadaihi?, it confirms that which its between its two hands/capacities. This means that whatever reality you have before you, Quran has it neatly categorised and predicted.

                      I can not understand. You mean after Quran completed this message came and added to book. Your response shows kind of confusion in your understanding.
                      Please expand and go in detail how a book not finished yet can be confirmed and how ? by what means?

                      Again, ?fully detailed scripture? isn?t there. It just says Quran details the book no doubt in it (tafseel al-kitab laa raiba fihi).

                      413
                      A scripture whose verses provide the complete details, in an Arabic Quran, for people who know

                      Again, you?re not reading context. See 10/35. 10/35 talks about guidance towards al-haqq. This has nothing to do with any code. Can any book guide as well as Quran? THAT?S the question.
                      Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

                      So what if they do?
                      Go back to CONTEXT please. Look above.

                      ?
                      Yeah, so that?s why we need the miracle? So future generations will appreciate Quran? Will future generation also have human needs such as theology, morality and society? Then without any ?miracle?, Quran would be relevant. Sir, your preoccupation with this code has made you forget this.
                      That is your judgement. Iknow myself and my God where is my standing. He is only one can judge my and your innermost taught. Mine is not connected to anything , bare and clean , no connection, Quran Alone But yours !!!!!!!??????????

                      Firstly, in none of these ayaat are the words ?letters? present.
                      These are What? What means by THESE.

                      Secondly, Quran has another word for proof, ?burhaan?.

                      you mean 1.2-3 billion have learned Burhan to believe those messages are not man made?

                      Ayaat as used above as ?signs?.

                      Sign great then code 19 is Sign for existence of syperhuma called Allah in Arabic, Lord in English< .................................

                      Thirdly 38/1 doesn?t say ?quran that contains the proof?. It says ?and the Quran, possessor of adh-dhikr/the eminent/.

                      In case t you are right we should forget all other ones too?

                      I?m very glad that you seek for proof.
                      Peace

                      That?s how it should be for believers but let me ask you this. Why did code 19 not arise with the coming of Quran itself?

                      Say if prophet was informed of secret of those letters then how he could show such interlocking system and further one without computer
                      Let us assume that some how prophet could explain those initials relating to 7430 Then how they could insert 2 verses to such thing.
                      http//19.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&86/&th=7643&goto=52179#msg_52179
                      can you.? then show us. nd then there was no need to reveal 381.

                      If muslims were meant to follow only evidenced facts, then why were they left with a flawed scripture for 1400 years?

                      God Knows future and was aware that Satn will infiltrate human for power and freed and creating empire abusing His messages ( Quran) by altering and giving God's level as Raheem to prophet to get power for what they have done for 1400 years and now they are paying back for deserting Quran and following their saints Imams and Sheikh. such flawed scripture has caused such bloodshed for 14 centuries. God knows that human will reach to such leve of knowldege to use it . He is showing His presence on this screen by solid proof which can be seen only by this screen. This screen would be in service of only well educated human doing his search and study without any middle man . God is only teacher of Quran and none of us allowed to teach Quran to well educated human which can read and understand like me and you. If you are scholar or teacher for Quran is time stay away to tell others how to undertand Quran .if they rae in 262 that is enough . they do not need any scripture to cite or any proof for God. God is giving freedom to us and now after 1400 years is showing Satanic Scheme which has brought His deen to what we witness daily. An anarchies and tyrannous societies.

                      Muslims immediately took to RK?s code when it first came out.
                      Exactly

                      Ahmed Deedat published a booklet on it even.

                      and

                      Yet for 1400 years, Muslims didn?t know about this code which is essential as Quran?s ?proof? ?

                      You are right. God promised that

                      Some reasoning is called for here.

                      You are right.
                      We all are destined to be here at this time on this screen
                      24/10/2009 72453 PM
                      Peace.

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