8:12 - 1400 years of misinterpretation solved?
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peace all,
As part of my re-analysis of Daad-Ra-Ba. See here for previous threads
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598540.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598953.0fa idriboo fawqa al-aAAnaqi wa idriboo minhum kulla bananin = so strike above/over the necks, and strike from them every/each finger/extremity.
Some use "smite". Translators are divided when it comes to the issue of who is being addressed by this command, even though the verse itself clearly states who is being addressed at the start, and that is the angels/controllers. In terms of what is more likely, it should be noted that this verse is likely addressed to the controllers than to the believers, due to the Arabic construction (i.e. no obvious break in addressee throughout and the first "fa" refers to the controllers, thus the second "fa" most likely does also) and it is in the imperative mood, meaning it is a command to be followed. Thus, it is impractical and illogical to command all believers when in battle to strike above/over the necks and each/every finger from the enemy. Especially there is no need for doing both! Therefore it more likely refers to the controllers, as we shall now examine
When your Lord inspires* to the angels/controllers** ?I am with you so keep firm those who believe. I shall cast terror into the hearts/minds*** of those who reject; so strike above/over the necks, and strike from them every/each finger/extremity.?
*imperfect tense, i.e. an action in the process of being done.
**angels is better translated as controllers, i.e. forces in control of certain functions/laws. There are some controllers we know about, e.g. those found in nature F=ma, E=mc? etc. and some we do not know about.
***qalb is often used like the English word "heart", meaning the physical organ, but more often for the locus of feelings/intuitions etc.The verse seems to imply then God will instil/cast terror into the heart/minds of those who reject, and then nature's forces take their course, resulting in affecting anything above the neck, e.g. the throat/mind/thoughts/senses/breathing and limbs/fingers of the rejecters, i.e. likely causing impairment of their performance. Instilling a sense of terror/fear in someone often results in their mind/thoughts/senses being affected/paralysed, and often results in trembling/shaking, especially transferring to the hands, which would likely result in weak fighting skills (swordsmanship or accuracy of arrows) when in battle. It is also interesting to note that when someone is fearful or anxious/nervous, their throat often becomes dry and precipitates an involuntary gulp reaction, i.e. a manifestation of fear/anxiety. Physical manifestations of anxiety trouble concentrating, feeling like your mind's gone blank, dizziness, shortness of breath, muscle tension, fatigue, headaches (source http//www.helpguide.org/mental/anxiety_types_symptoms_treatment.htm).
The above understanding may also help clarify the confusion some translators have about 817 on who really did the defeating and who really did the casting (Arabic rama, root Ra-Miim-Ya). As it likely refers to the use of "cast" (Arabic olqee, root Lam-Qaf-Ya) done by God in 812. Interestingly, if we take "rama" to mean "throw or cast" as in arrows or pebbles in 817 as done by some translators, then obviously the believers did not strike above the necks and each finger, making this interpretation even less likely. As is common, there are conflicting accounts between the traditional tafsirs (source http//www.altafsir.com) on 817 and what was thrown, e.g. Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi (arrow), and Tafsir al-Jalalayn (pebbles), and Tanw?r al-Miqb?s min Tafs?r Ibn ?Abb?s (dust). See M.Asad's note on 817 which mentions several possible explanations.
To conclude, 812 is addressed to the controllers, and DRB does not mean a literal/physical "strike" e.g. by sword, as is commonly understood, unless taken metaphorically. Thus, may be better rendered as "put forth" in these two occurrences.
www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
www.quranix.netComments/feedback welcome.
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Thanks Wakas as always your posts on quranic exegesis is well thought out.
I have limited understanding of arabic myself but what do you make of the verse you quoted where The God is saying "I am with you so keep firm those who believe....".
Is this referring to those who are in battle?Or if I understood your post correctly it is referring to angels/controllers. If it's the latter then that may show that the angels/controllers may have belief and disbelief just like us.
PEACE
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When your Lord inspires to the controllers ?I (God) am with you (controllers) so keep firm those who believed. I (God) shall cast terror into the hearts/minds of those who rejected; so strike above/over the necks, and strike from them every/each finger/extremity.?
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When your Lord inspires to the controllers ?I (God) am with you (controllers) so keep firm those who believed. I (God) shall cast terror into the hearts/minds of those who rejected; so strike above/over the necks, and strike from them every/each finger/extremity.?
In you first post it is "so keep firm those who believe..." but above it is in the past tense ???
From your interpretation who is the audience(human or angels/malaikas) that is being referred to, to be firm in belief??
PEACE
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Yes, I realised "amanu/believed/trusted" was in the perfect tense, hence the change. It was just for accuracy purposes, as I dont see how it changes anything.
From your interpretation who is the audience(human or angels/malaikas) that is being referred to, to be firm in belief??
For me, it strongly and perhaps can only point to humans. As far as I'm aware there is no reference to malaikas/controllers as AMN elsewhere. There may be, I haven't checked it.
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Additional information
fa darba al rriqabi hattaitha athkhantumoohum = so strike the necks until you overcome them
Some use "hit", "smite", "strike-off". Whilst this is the most common translation, it should be noted that it is taken by many as an idiom (e.g. Mustansir Mir, Al-Jalalayn, Ibn Kathir), meaning slay or kill. This seems the more likely interpretation as in a battle of swords and arrows no commander would order his soldiers to aim for the necks alone. DRB could also be translated as "put forth" in this verse.
As a side note, it is interesting to note the difference in phrasing of this verse compared to 812, giving further weight to each of them having different meanings as discussed. -
the above understanding has been superseded by quran434.com, see part 1, number 17
