Intervention?

Prince

It's been sometime since I posted a topic so here goes

Intervention has been on my mind for sometime in terms of whether The God intervenes in our daily affairs whether directly or indirectly(malaikas/controllers) or whether He has set Natural laws from the beginning of creation and let's things take place as they are without any intervention. After reading/studying the quran i'm still not clear hence the topic being created.

I will just post a few ideas and criticisms to get the discussion going and would love to see everyone participate however small it maybe on their opinion; Here goes;

Intervention definition

the act or fact of intervening.
interposition or interference of one state in the affairs of another.

Scenario 1 The God never intervenes on any level but has set natural laws to take their course and govern the universe including humankind.
Validity This scenario may explain why there are poor people, child killers, paedophiles, evil etc.
Criticism/s If this is the case then revelation can be seen as an intervention from The God to humankind. Unless revelation was one of the natural laws of The God, hmmm ???

Scenario 2 The God does intervene on every level as his laws are ever changing, He does as He wills.
Validity This would explain miracles(if they exist)
Criticism/s If this is the case then its hard justifying 'evil' in the world. Also it may show The God as not All-Knowing and Wise if he has to break his laws He's set in the 1st place to help humankind.

Scenario 3 The God works through His laws that He has set from the beginning.
Validity This would solve the criticism in scenario 2 as The God is not intervening but working through the laws He has set.
Criticism/s This still doesn't solve the question on why 'evil' exists.

Scenario 3 seems more plausible out of the lot in my opinion and maybe 'evil' is a small part of the bigger plan for us.

On a side note I always do believe that the end(next life) will justify the means(this life) but at the moment in life to me intervention is still a mystery and it would help me understand how Our Creator works to get more faith in His workings.

PEACE

Wonderlouse

In before free will.

nerspi

good topic.
i would say scenarios 1 and 3... although why would you think it doesn't solve 'evil'?
laws were apparently set to allow many possibilities, even evil. just because it exists doesn't mean God doesn't intervene. just that He already made laws that would prevent it, and it is our responsibility to discover those laws and go by them to solve it. God's intervention here would be reasoning, inspiration and such.

as far as scr 1, i'd say revelation would be seen as intervention if somehow God just appeared to a human and started talking or something... but the way revelation worked so far is also by set laws, through meditation, inspiration... it's still not breaking any laws.

i didn't really consider scenario 2, it would show God as less then all powerful to break the laws. even though He can, yes, it's not really the point.

i'd say, we have the ability to prevent evil in the world, and it's not by just sitting around asking God to do it for us, that's why we were put here on earth. and we should see that there is a reason for evil, God allowed it in the first place, if He so willed He would have made laws that don't allow evil to happen in the first place.
-and intervention, i'd say it happens yes, but still without breaking laws already set, infact it's through laws, (scr. 3).
-just like revelations, there's laws set on how it can happen, and a few humans found them, but since they are not any more special then the rest of us, i'd say even we can recieve revelations.

so i don't see intervention as something supernatural, it's part of this life, there are natural ways of it happening.

Prince

Thanks nerspi that clarifies things abit for me.

What would your opinion be on coincidences that occur in lives i.e. you randomly think of someone you haven't seen for a long period and you see him/her that day. Is this The God working through his laws to show you his signs of existence or mere coincidence.

PEACE

nerspi

yeah i had such experiences where i'd think of someoe and they'd call the next minute... happened several times )
but i say there's no coincidences, to call it that i think is like calling medicine "magic" back 2000 years ago... when we don't understand how these laws work we tend to call things magic, miracles, coincidences...

we should be aware that we are mental being as much as physical beings... we work through our thoughts as much as through our bodies (maybe even more),
and for example when we THINK of someone, that thought is out there and that someone may detect it with his/her thoughts and decide to call you or whatever. ...
or you make an intention to walk down a particular road and your friend thinks of walking down same road, both thoughts are out there in the energy field. you ask yourself, why did you decide to go down THAT road, where did that thought come from? perhaps you're just detecting a thought produced by your friend, he/she decided to go there first... and that's how you meet, and you think, oh what a coincidence... but it's not really.

we are all connected on that level, through thoughts. and they manifest themselves.
even events, situations, conversations... they all first start with thoughts, and we detect them, perhaps that's why we're somehow drawn to them... happened to me quite a lot, i'd randomly think of something, but it'd be a subtle thought, just passes through the mind... later i'd be in a conversation and i hear them say something that's really the answer i was looking for or something... or i'd end up in a situation where things play out in my favour, it's like i was supposed to be there, like i was supposed to hear/see something... and i'd think, hmm, i was just thinking about this, what a coincidence... but it wasn't of course, i just didn't understand how it all works.

and i'd say those are laws set, we're transmitters and detectors of thoughts produced.
i'm still researvhing thoughts and their power, they'ver very subtle, interesting, complicated.
it's really an amazing system once you look at it from a certain prespective... you see the power and magnificence of God and how He can create it like it is. )

Alen

Peace,
Respectfully.

Many atheists say that there is no god because they cn't see the reality of why there are poor people, why innocent die, how come there's so much injustice and why doesn't God prevent war, disease and so on.

These same atheists fail to see that it's us who are causing all the problems and it is up to us to correct ourselves and ask for forgivness from God, Whom atheists accuse of all ther wrong in the world. Atheists usually say why are some people poor and why won't God help them? When you tell this same guy that he needs to give charity so that there won't be any poor people, he just laughs and says why can't God do it?

I guess they are blind.

Glory be to our God.
Peace.

Prince

yeah i had such experiences where i'd think of someoe and they'd call the next minute... happened several times )
but i say there's no coincidences, to call it that i think is like calling medicine "magic" back 2000 years ago... when we don't understand how these laws work we tend to call things magic, miracles, coincidences...

we should be aware that we are mental being as much as physical beings... we work through our thoughts as much as through our bodies (maybe even more),
and for example when we THINK of someone, that thought is out there and that someone may detect it with his/her thoughts and decide to call you or whatever. ...
or you make an intention to walk down a particular road and your friend thinks of walking down same road, both thoughts are out there in the energy field. you ask yourself, why did you decide to go down THAT road, where did that thought come from? perhaps you're just detecting a thought produced by your friend, he/she decided to go there first... and that's how you meet, and you think, oh what a coincidence... but it's not really.

we are all connected on that level, through thoughts. and they manifest themselves.
even events, situations, conversations... they all first start with thoughts, and we detect them, perhaps that's why we're somehow drawn to them... happened to me quite a lot, i'd randomly think of something, but it'd be a subtle thought, just passes through the mind... later i'd be in a conversation and i hear them say something that's really the answer i was looking for or something... or i'd end up in a situation where things play out in my favour, it's like i was supposed to be there, like i was supposed to hear/see something... and i'd think, hmm, i was just thinking about this, what a coincidence... but it wasn't of course, i just didn't understand how it all works.

and i'd say those are laws set, we're transmitters and detectors of thoughts produced.
i'm still researvhing thoughts and their power, they'ver very subtle, interesting, complicated.
it's really an amazing system once you look at it from a certain prespective... you see the power and magnificence of God and how He can create it like it is. )

Yeh I can relate to the situations your referring to. You say you are researching thoughts and their power, can you recommend any books on this or anyone else reading this. I do prefer reading something scientific or something that does have logical premise behind it and not necessarily using scientific facts as its premise. I'm reading Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle which is very interesting.

Thanks Alen for your input and i agree with what your saying but nevertheless these questions about evil and intervention will always be there even from someone who believes in The God.

PEACE

nerspi

i don't know about books, i mostly read online articles, here's a few
http//www.successconsciousness.com/index_000086.htm
http//www.dlshq.org/download/thought_power.htm
http//flavoursofindia.tripod.com/thoughts.html

what interests me is how they work in a way, for example, when you want something to happen and fear that it may not, that fear will manifest first, and the bad thing happens, something you didn't want, but feared... and that fear is very subtle, you may not even notice it.
and if you want something, they say best thing is to not go for it (vigorously), not to force it to happen, as if when you try to force it, it goes further and further away, so best would be to not think about it, let it go and it will come to you.

strange, yet somehow in on a few occasions, i found it to be true.
but the crazy part is that even though i'm aware of it i still make the mistake, can't control thoughts in that way and fear becomes reality.