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  4. 8:50 and 47:27 - 1400 years of misinterpretation solved?

8:50 and 47:27 - 1400 years of misinterpretation solved?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • Q Offline
    Q Offline
    Q_student
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    Peace Q_Student

    I know where you coming from, so for you all the occurrences of in the Quran can only mean "to beat".

    BTW this is the subject of the thread.

    Peace
    "Beauty needs no ornaments "
    I have given a sentence ,translate it according to travel (self concocted meaning) theory. Why are you reluctant to translate this sentence?

    Regards

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    • H Offline
      H Offline
      herbman
      wrote on last edited by
      #11

      Peace
      "Beauty needs no ornaments "
      I have given a sentence ,translate it according to travel (self concocted meaning) theory. Why are you reluctant to translate this sentence?

      Regards

      I said yes in that context it means "to beat"
      But it is only one of the meaning for and I said that the etymology of the word originally means "move" as by proto-root.

      Now you show me in the following from the Quran also means "to beat"

      peace

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        herbman
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        or I should have simply taken the example from 7320

        In any case I don't understand what you are trying to prove here, the fact is the original meaning is "move" then words evolve to what ever meanings depending on context and situations.

        peace

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        • Q Offline
          Q Offline
          Q_student
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          I said yes in that context it means "to beat"
          But it is only one of the meaning for and I said that the etymology of the word originally means "move" as by proto-root.

          Now you show me in the following from the Quran also means "to beat"

          peace

          Peace
          This is "Dharaba mathalan" . This is well known arabic phrase written and explained in very classical dictionary .
          We are not talking about phrases /idioms of the this verb. We are talking about only about the verb "dharaba".
          To break
          To break out
          To break the ice
          All of the above have different meaning.
          This is basic priniciple of the language.
          "To beat" is the meaning of the word "dharaba". Look at the Lane's Lexicon.
          It means you have to learn the difference between parent verb and its idiomatic expression and you are commenting on the language usages.
          Regards

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          • U Offline
            U Offline
            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #14

            Peace everyone

            how would we translate the following

            peace

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            • H Offline
              H Offline
              herbman
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              Peace
              This is "Dharaba mathalan" . This is well known arabic phrase written and explained in very classical dictionary .
              We are not talking about phrases /idioms of the this verb. We are talking about only about the verb "dharaba".
              To break
              To break out
              To break the ice
              All of the above have different meaning.
              This is basic priniciple of the language.
              "To beat" is the meaning of the word "dharaba". Look at the Lane's Lexicon.
              It means you have to learn the difference between parent verb and its idiomatic expression and you are commenting on the language usages.
              Regards

              Salam, Peace,

              No you are wrong "dharaba"= "To beat" is one of the meanings, see Lane's Lexicon.

              Now let me explain you my point of view

              let's take some of the meanings of "dharaba" from Al Quran (if you have more please provide), where we all agree

              1-To beat
              2-To travel
              3-To explain or to expose

              So I said the basic and guenuin meaning of "dharaba" is "move", so let's apply this to the 3 meanings we have

              1-To beat= the basic process if you break up the action of beating is a "move" of an object from one place to another (F=m*a) see also the definition below
              http//www.collinslanguage.com/results.aspx?context=3&reversed=False&action=define&homonym=-1&text=beat

              2-To travel = to move frome one place to another

              3- To explain, expose = to move, transpose a situation, idea into an image so you can undestand easily.
              colins definition, explain to make something easily understandable, esp. by giving a clear and detailed account of it,

              Let's continue and take other examples from the contempory usage

              4- to multiply to transpose (move) one number several times

              5- to stamp (money or whatever) to move an image into a media

              wa salam

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              • H Offline
                H Offline
                herbman
                wrote on last edited by
                #16

                Peace
                Language is not based on self concocted concepts
                Regards

                please click the link below

                http//www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=arabic+proto-root

                peace

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                • Q Offline
                  Q Offline
                  Q_student
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #17

                  Salam, Peace,

                  1-To beat
                  2-To travel
                  3-To explain or to expose

                  wa salam

                  Peace
                  Here you are mistaken.
                  7320
                  It is not dharaba which means "travel " rather a full phrase i.e dharaba fil ardh.

                  1424
                  Again it is not simply dharaba ,rather dharaba mathalan. which means to narrate parable.

                  Regards

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                  • U Offline
                    U Offline
                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    salaam brother

                    Peace

                    1424
                    Again it is not simply dharaba ,rather dharaba mathalan. which means to narrate parable.

                    Regards

                    what do you say about the following example

                    Peace everyone

                    how would we translate the following

                    peace

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                    • H Offline
                      H Offline
                      herbman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      salaam brother

                      what do you say about the following example

                      Thanks Head of Hamza,

                      I didn't know about that one, I think QS is out of arguments now.
                      Can you please tell us what's is your understanding of it

                      Peace

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                      • S Offline
                        S Offline
                        Samia
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #20

                        Peace
                        Classical arabic is an established and vast language.
                        Dharaba ( ) = travel
                        you need to prove through classical arabic work.
                        BTW what is meant by

                        According to you self concocted theory which meaning is drawn from this sentence /
                        regards

                        Why do you add the adverb to your sentence?

                        http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598471.msg206418#msg206418

                        To avoid such an answer?

                        http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598471.msg206452#msg206452
                        laugh
                        You know without modifying this verb with intensity/tool/place to strike...etc you cannot translate it into (to beat). Even in colloquial, a question would follow how did he "beat" him? With what? Was it serious?...etc

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                        • Q Offline
                          Q Offline
                          Q_student
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #21

                          Why do you add the adverb to your sentence?

                          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598471.msg206418#msg206418

                          To avoid such an answer?

                          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598471.msg206452#msg206452
                          laugh
                          You know without modifying this verb with intensity/tool/place to strike...etc you cannot translate it into (to beat). Even in colloquial, a question would follow how did he "beat" him? With what? Was it serious?...etc

                          Peace
                          To know its meaning please consult Lane's lexicon.
                          To know its use please W.Wright English Grammar.
                          Your questions are fully elaborated in them.
                          regards

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                          • S Offline
                            S Offline
                            Samia
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #22

                            Peace
                            To know its meaning please consult Lane's lexicon.
                            To know its use please W.Wright English Grammar.
                            Your questions are fully elaborated in them.
                            regards

                            What do these two books say about ?

                            I only have access to about 5 classical dictionaries including Al-3ain and Lisanul 3arab, but could not find the expression( &#1575
                            The verb "Dharaba" in itself implies a strong strike (to kill) .That's why you can't find "strongly strikes him", and this is why sunnis have to insert (lightly) to fool around.

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                            • Q Offline
                              Q Offline
                              Q_student
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #23

                              What do these two books say about ?

                              I only have access to about 5 classical dictionaries including Al-3ain and Lisanul 3arab, but could not find the expression( &#1575
                              The verb "Dharaba" in itself implies a strong strike (to kill) .That's why you can't find "strongly strikes him", and this is why sunnis have to insert (lightly) to fool around.

                              Peace
                              Please copy paste where it says haraba = STRONG strike

                              Dear sister do not use these dictionaries as "a decoration piece" .Try to use them.
                              Here comes a very short list of use of this phrase from many.

                              • ( 1 / 30)
                                .

                              • ( 1 / 8
                                .

                              • ( 1 / 105)

                                • ( 1 / 36)
                                • ( 1 / 46)
                                  .
                              • ( 1 / 157)
                                .

                              • ( 1 / 191)
                                . .

                              • ( 1 / 190)
                                .

                              • ( 3 / 235)
                                .

                              • ( 1 / 162)
                                .

                              • ( 2 / 167)
                                .

                              • ( 2 / 310)

                              • ( 7 / 280)
                                ( )

                              • ( 9 / 221)

                              • ( 12 / 342)

                              • ( 1 / 3639)

                              Dharab Khafiifan Look at this also it is for comparison.

                              • ( 2 / 414)
                                . .

                              • ( 2 / 277)
                                .

                              • ( 10 / 80)

                              • ( 1 / 1779)
                                .

                              • ( 2 / 252)
                                .

                              • ( 2 / 32
                                .

                              • ( 1 / 52)

                              • ( 1 / 225)

                              Regards

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                              • U Offline
                                U Offline
                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #24

                                Thanks Head of Hamza,

                                I didn't know about that one, I think QS is out of arguments now.
                                Can you please tell us what's is your understanding of it

                                Peace

                                check this out

                                http//translate.google.co.uk/translate_t?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&text=%D9%8A%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%82+%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%84&file=&sl=ar&tl=en&history_state0=#

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                                • S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  Samia
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #25

                                  Q_student

                                  You still failed with all these references to show even once where dharaba means (to smack) without showing with what or where, however big is the size of your font.
                                  All your examples are for striking with a sword, a cane or a whip.
                                  Moreover,this "dharban shadeedan" is an explanation of the more eloqouent Arabic terms/phrases which are as follows (from your copy and paste)

                                  Strong beating

                                  Light beating

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                                  • Q Offline
                                    Q Offline
                                    Q_student
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #26

                                    Q_student

                                    You still failed with all these references to show even once where dharaba means (to smack) without showing with what or where, however big is the size of your font.
                                    All your examples are for striking with a sword, a cane or a whip.
                                    Moreover,this "dharban shadeedan" is an explanation of the more eloqouent Arabic terms/phrases which are as follows (from your copy and paste)

                                    Strong beating

                                    Light beating

                                    Peace
                                    Look at your statement

                                    I only have access to about 5 classical dictionaries including Al-3ain and Lisanul 3arab, but could not find the expression(

                                    ( )

                                    • ( 9 / 221)

                                    • ( 12 / 342)
                                      Lie has no leg to stand on.
                                      Look at this also

                                    .
                                    Actually you do not know even abc of Arabic language.You do not know even how to consult a dictionary .

                                    Give a single reference (Lisan or kitaabul Ain) which says that Dharaba means Strong Strike.
                                    Regards

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                                    • S Offline
                                      S Offline
                                      Samia
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #27

                                      If you knew Arabic you would not re-paste these four sentences, because two of them confirm what I just posted, explaining two verbs which mean "to strike heavily" in two complete sentences with and ;and the two other sentences are incomplete.

                                      You don't even know what I am saying in English, let alone in Arabic. And do not divert the issue, which is that "Dharaba" DOES NOT MEAN SMACK. I repeated many times that it means to strike with a sword or a cane or a whip. when used alone. Whether it comes with "severly/strongly" or not is irrelevant. NONE OF YOUR COPY AND PASTE GIVES ANY MEANING FOR THE VERB AS TO "BEAT/ SMACK" without showing with what or where.

                                      I have lisanul 3arab in hard copy and online. I do not know why I need to tell a lie, (although what you copy and paste from lisanul 3arab is not on my online copies). Yet, it makes no difference and apart from the incomplete sentences, it supports what I have been saying. These are what I have from the online copy I have , with "dharban shadeedan"

                                      Explaining dharban "mubr-ri7an" as shadeedan. This is under two entries "bara7a" and "dharaba"
                                      and no such a thing as light beating, but .

                                      The above one is froma hadith about whipping a drunken. They almost killed him.

                                      These are the only sentences containing dharban shadeedan althrough lisanul 3arab.
                                      I have posted more than once my online source of the lisanul 3arab, www.baheth.info. You may check for yourself if you can. Just enter and you will have all the occurences of this word throughout the dictionary. Search for the ones followed by

                                      End of discussion with thick heads.

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                                      • U Offline
                                        U Offline
                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #28

                                        Peace
                                        Look at your statement
                                        280)
                                        ( )

                                        • ( 9 / 221)

                                        • ( 12 / 342)
                                          Lie has no leg to stand on.
                                          Look at this also

                                        .

                                        Actually you do not know even abc of Arabic language.You do not know even how to consult a dictionary .
                                        Give a single reference (Lisan or kitaabul Ain) which says that Dharaba means Strong Strike.
                                        Regards

                                        Salaam brother

                                        you have very good knowledge of arabic language elhamdulillah. Would you please help me translating the following

                                        God strikes the right and wrong

                                        is that the correct translation?

                                        http//translate.google.co.uk/translate_t?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&text=%D9%8A%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%82+%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B7%D9%84&file=&sl=ar&tl=en&history_state0=#

                                        Thanks.

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                                        • Q Offline
                                          Q Offline
                                          Q_student
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #29

                                          Peace sister
                                          Again you are showing height of ignorance you said

                                          I only have access to about 5 classical dictionaries including Al-3ain and Lisanul 3arab, but could not find the expression( &#1575
                                          The verb "Dharaba" in itself implies a strong strike (to kill) .That's why you can't find "strongly strikes him",

                                          You said

                                          I only have access to about 5 classical dictionaries including Al-3ain and Lisanul 3arab, but could not find the expression(

                                          In the next post you have quoted Lisaan showing the xpression of "Dharaban Shadeedan". (Lie has no memory).

                                          You said

                                          NONE OF YOUR COPY AND PASTE GIVES ANY MEANING FOR THE VERB AS TO "BEAT/ SMACK" without showing with what or where.

                                          Again you are trying to misguide the readers .Your claim was

                                          What do these two books say about ?

                                          I only have access to about 5 classical dictionaries including Al-3ain and Lisanul 3arab, but could not find the expression( &#1575
                                          The verb "Dharaba" in itself implies a strong strike (to kill) .That's why you can't find "strongly strikes him", and this is why sunnis have to insert (lightly) to fool around.

                                          In response to this I put so many reference SHOWING THE EXPRESSION OF DHARABAN SHADEEDAN.

                                          Again I am demanding from you about your claim the "The verb "Dharaba" in itself implies a strong strike"

                                          Produce a single evidence which says
                                          Dharaba = strong strike.

                                          On the other hand dictionaries clearly say

                                          • ( 2 /

                                          • ( 1 / 157)
                                            .Again you are trying to dodge and misguid the readers

                                          you said

                                          Explaining dharban "mubr-ri7an" as shadeedan. This is under two entries "bara7a" and "dharaba"
                                          and no such a thing as light beating, but

                                          It is explaining the meaning of "mubarrihan" not that of "dharaban".This sentence has been taken from Lisaanul arab under "Bariha" .The exact wording of lisaan is

                                          • ( 2 / 40

                                          Dharaba is common word for any sort of strike which may be strong or weak.To explain this specificity you have to use the word shadeedan or khafifan (strong or weak) as I have already shown many examples. If it had inherant meaning of "Strength" of strike there is no sense in using "Dharaban Shadeedan" (unfortunately this is question of common sense which is uncommon) and then khafeefan can never be used with it.

                                          It is exactly like an English word "odor" which can be good or bad. For good smell we use either "good odor " or "fragrance" and for bad odor we use either "offensive odor" or "stink"
                                          Please sister try to have some Classes in Classical Arabic.There is no harm in learning.
                                          Having Lisaanul arab and using it as DECORATION PIECE "just to impress reader makes one as a "laughing stock" and nothing else.

                                          Regards

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