The difference between us and sunnis/shias

Yaqub

Thank you Ahmed Bilal

San, I do agree with your point. It would be wonderful to eloquently read, understand, and implement God's orders in the way they were revealed, and like you said who knows... we may find out why God revealed the Quran in Arabic soon....

san

Hi, Yaqub, greetings from a new member here!

As for the original topic, I don't know how "us", "sunnis", and "shias" are grouped, classed or characterized. So i refrain from such perceived groupings.

I grew up in the Sunni tradition myself. However, after all the rages against the (put "suspected" here if you like) "lies" and "conspiracies", i came to pity and worry about those who are still basing their decisions on such mental and psychological tyrannies. Not that their lives have anything to do with mine, but still, you would want your families and friends to be believers in God alone, wouldn't you? Unless made clear to you the rights from the wrongs, you'd still have hope for them to be guided, wouldn't you?

Hate is of no use. Take evil for example. It is useless to hate evil. Stay away from it, yes, of course, just follow God and seek His protection. Why though, we would need to be angry to something that wants our anger, no matter what our anger is directed to? That is simply not peaceful. Wasted, useless, hate is. I came nearer to the conclusion that God's way is perfectly peaceful and of ease and of happiness. No need for all the negative emotions, and even no need to linger on difficulties. The simulation of heavenly life is already beginning when one submits to God entirely. God always remind us to return to Him after we make any fault, that is, in my opinion, so we don't linger on negativity too long. He wants us to quickly return back into peaceful state. Back to 'heaven' again.

That's why i would suggest if they bothered you, be patient. If they don't believe your view (and you got tired of them), leave them. Don't think anything bad about them, not because you "should", but because you would be better off thinking the good things out of them or anything else, for the peace of your own mind.

Instead of talking about the difference between "us" and "them", why don't we talk about what's the similar between "us", for a start. God knows what might bring His believers closer. Anything.

Peace, and may God relieves our hearts from the fires and ashes, and showers us with springs of peace

Yaqub

welcome San to the forum.

Thank you for contributing and insightful post. Many new members come through here, but I get excited when people begin to post intelligent comments that show some wisdom.

I realize that the title of this thread is a little vague, and that it is pointless to pick at differences. I started this thread to cope with the initial negative encounters I had with the Sunni's in my community. However, since then, our relations have improved drastically. I found, like you said, that it was pointless to constantly pick at the behaviors and idiosyncracies among most sunni people. It just provokes argument and leads to nothing but animostiy and hurt feelings. I have also found that it is best to not discuss contraversial religious topics unless someone asks you first and shows general interest in learning about your opinion/arguments but that is another story in itself.

By the way, I like your writing style... are you a college student?

san

Thanks Yaqub, you guessed right, though 'that is another story in itself' ;D

alhamdulillah, that your relations improved drastically since. Your 'let-it-out' topic is proven useful then

Yeah i see the point on that don't-discuss-it-until-you're-asked with those who are uncomfortably different to you. That is a better approach indeed--i've had some uncomfortable experiences in the opposite.

As for the 'insight', i'm a little ashamed for myself... I have not-so-memorable past with hatred/anger myself. So i would describe it as trial-by-fire experience. Now that i have much more reason to forgive, everything becomes easier. I still have issue with one of the basic deeds of reverence to God, as leftovers from the past habits. That's why i need a completely different view, that of God's absolute ease. I left the doctrine that 'religion is difficult'. That, suspiciously, has satanic sign on it--it opposes the view of "ease" in the Quran, for those who follow God and His message. Everything is easy for Him and we are invited to keep asking Him for ease.

And i'm still learning and practicing on this new "easy" view.

Peace,

guest

After about a year of contemplating, I have come to the conclusion that the different between us and shias/sunnis is that we believe in the freedom of interpreting religion, while they don't.

In a discussion today my friend were discussing random topics in Islam. He claimed that hadith are infallible, the prophet was infallible, the imams that interpret hadith are infallible (because hadith are so clear and elaborating that there are no two sides), ect.

This discussion basically epitomized my experiences with devout sunni/shiias

I just stood there with my mouth open (allegorically).

Any thoughts?

Peace,

I am providing some observation and thoughts on your post.

You opted to criticize others (shias/sunnis) without first explaining your positions/understanding adequately. And this is not very intelligent thing to do. A good post would have included the rationale behind your stated position.

Who is ?us??

You alone,
Free-minds.org,
All members of free-minds.org,
Some members of free-minds.org,
Acceptance of all the religious position advocated by this web site,
Acceptance of some religious position advocated by this web site,
And so on

In fact ?us? is guilty of the very thing you are accusing the sunnis of

If you read the threads, posts, articles and other documents on this web site very carefully you will find the followings in majority of them

In the name of Quran alone, this web site produces modern hadith that contradicts Quran, God?s physical laws, and the innermost thoughts of righteous persons
If you read these modern hadith carefully you will note that authors are either ill prepared, did not conduct sufficient research (your post being a case), do not adhere to God?s law, contradicts their position from thread to thread, not knowledgeable, etc.?..
The sunnis hadith you are condemning is equivalent to hadith produced by free-minds.org via the use of selective classic Arabic dictionary meaning. No difference, you are replacing sunnis hadith with the classic dictionary. Note that the dictionary is not infallible
Some on this site will advocate that you cannot breakfast fast at sunset, yet they will not define what night is. Any definition other than the sunset will be a contradiction. Let them produce the definition of night if they speak the truth
One hadith will say you will have to fast in the summer time in violation of God?s law/guidance. This hadith makes Bukhari look real good you know
Some moderator will proclaim themselves as good people; as if they don?t need to earn respect from other. This is a blatant violation of human decency
If you present different views (although consistent with the Quran), some moderator will threaten you with throwing you out of the forum. They don?t have the decency to withdraw themselves from the dispute and let a third party settle the dispute. They do not honor the conflict of interest concepts. What bothers me the most is the tolerance of other moderators and the administrators when they are aware of such situations. This is like many good police officers getting bad name for few bad ones. This is not acceptable in God?s system unless the moderator in question invoke the curse of God on them for any unjustly act
Another problematic thing is the title ?wise one? assigned by the web site to some members, where do they get the authority to call someone wise one when they are not. Just read their posts. One cannot call themselves worshipper of God alone and exhibits such behavior. You can?t have your cake and eat it too
Another hadith is the unjustifiable use of Joseph?s plan (to keep his brother in Egypt via the cup steal plot) to generalized the punishment of thief. Yet, they are the one who advocates that if the God did not specifically say such and such thing in the Quran you can imply it. Be aware, they will prohibit you of doing something but they will use it when it suits their purpose

Here is an example of how the use of classic Arabic dictionary can lead many people astray.

4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.

This is the translation of ?us? that allows for suspicion which violate the God given fundamental right of an innocent human i.e. human dignity. This translation allows for illegal search and many other corruptions in the system. Such system cannot be God?s system period.

Contrast the above translation with the below translation which does not violate human dignity nor does it allow corrupted system.

4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

Which one does your innermost tells you to accept? The distinction is very clear God vs. satan (my opinion of course).

I recommend you to read the following thread of belH. This is one of the best threads on this site.

Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

MUNZIR_ALI

I understand exactly what you mean. I usually get the same reaction when I tell people that Hebrew is the language of the Torah, and Aramaic is the language of the Injiyl. People start having ridiculous ideas that God has a certain language and that He can't understand any other ones...

Then why do the call God, "God"? laugh

MUNZIR_ALI

You might want to read an introduction on Arabic such as on
http//arabic.tripod.com/Intro.htm

In short, the Arabic as the speakers speak daily today (also their official version) might be (very) different to the Arabic that is used in the Quran (Classical Arabic or Quranic Arabic).

By the way, to Yaqub i can understand it if "the way" people glorify Arabic might come hate-able to you. However i will add that the Arabic as in the Quran does indeed sound "eloquent". While reciting Quran in Arabic (correctly and beautifully) without observing its meaning can be useless, doing the same while observing the meaning can be a wonderful experience. It is in some way, healing. That's for the peaceful, or 'good news' verses. As for some heavier verses (warnings), the sounds are not only also heavy (sometimes), but more difficult to pronounce as well.

And despite all the difficulties in translating the Arabic Quran to our own languages, i will not neglect the possibility that there might be reasons not yet made clear to us, as to why the Last Revelation is revealed in the Classical/Quranic Arabic.

Thanks for the valuable information. It was very informative. handshake

Yaqub

Peace,

I am providing some observation and thoughts on your post.

You opted to criticize others (shias/sunnis) without first explaining your positions/understanding adequately. And this is not very intelligent thing to do. A good post would have included the rationale behind your stated position.

Who is ?us??

You alone,
Free-minds.org,
All members of free-minds.org,
Some members of free-minds.org,
Acceptance of all the religious position advocated by this web site,
Acceptance of some religious position advocated by this web site,
And so on

In fact ?us? is guilty of the very thing you are accusing the sunnis of

If you read the threads, posts, articles and other documents on this web site very carefully you will find the followings in majority of them

In the name of Quran alone, this web site produces modern hadith that contradicts Quran, God?s physical laws, and the innermost thoughts of righteous persons
If you read these modern hadith carefully you will note that authors are either ill prepared, did not conduct sufficient research (your post being a case), do not adhere to God?s law, contradicts their position from thread to thread, not knowledgeable, etc.?..
The sunnis hadith you are condemning is equivalent to hadith produced by free-minds.org via the use of selective classic Arabic dictionary meaning. No difference, you are replacing sunnis hadith with the classic dictionary. Note that the dictionary is not infallible
Some on this site will advocate that you cannot breakfast fast at sunset, yet they will not define what night is. Any definition other than the sunset will be a contradiction. Let them produce the definition of night if they speak the truth
One hadith will say you will have to fast in the summer time in violation of God?s law/guidance. This hadith makes Bukhari look real good you know
Some moderator will proclaim themselves as good people; as if they don?t need to earn respect from other. This is a blatant violation of human decency
If you present different views (although consistent with the Quran), some moderator will threaten you with throwing you out of the forum. They don?t have the decency to withdraw themselves from the dispute and let a third party settle the dispute. They do not honor the conflict of interest concepts. What bothers me the most is the tolerance of other moderators and the administrators when they are aware of such situations. This is like many good police officers getting bad name for few bad ones. This is not acceptable in God?s system unless the moderator in question invoke the curse of God on them for any unjustly act
Another problematic thing is the title ?wise one? assigned by the web site to some members, where do they get the authority to call someone wise one when they are not. Just read their posts. One cannot call themselves worshipper of God alone and exhibits such behavior. You can?t have your cake and eat it too
Another hadith is the unjustifiable use of Joseph?s plan (to keep his brother in Egypt via the cup steal plot) to generalized the punishment of thief. Yet, they are the one who advocates that if the God did not specifically say such and such thing in the Quran you can imply it. Be aware, they will prohibit you of doing something but they will use it when it suits their purpose

Here is an example of how the use of classic Arabic dictionary can lead many people astray.

4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.

This is the translation of ?us? that allows for suspicion which violate the God given fundamental right of an innocent human i.e. human dignity. This translation allows for illegal search and many other corruptions in the system. Such system cannot be God?s system period.

Contrast the above translation with the below translation which does not violate human dignity nor does it allow corrupted system.

4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

Which one does your innermost tells you to accept? The distinction is very clear God vs. satan (my opinion of course).

I recommend you to read the following thread of belH. This is one of the best threads on this site.

Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Thank you for your highly enlightening post Guest. You bring much insight and knowledge to this thread. yeah

You also seem to have an exceeding large amount of time on your hands (or you type really fast), and seem to be relieving a large amount of suppressed feelings on this thread. What you have criticized about "us" and "them" has long been beaten dead voodoo. If you had read through the thread, you would find that I wrote the title in a period of anger and frustration. I have already posted that many times throughout the thread, the last being... earlier this week? Then you seem to rant about your criticism of free-minds.org... if you don't like it so much, why don't you leave or start your own forum with people that share the same views as you?

I honestly have not been following the free-minds.org is a sect thread, and have no interest in doing so. I belong to no sect, and am currently forming my own views about religion, the Quran, and the Sunna as we speak.

So I will ask you to please come down...this thread is currently just a place where a college student is sharing stories about his encounters with sunnis on the web...

If you have nothing to contribute, please leave.

guest

if you don't like it so much, why don't you leave or start your own forum with people that share the same views as you?

This is not a good advise. Why do you advocate suppressing the truth. I am making innocent people aware of truth. And nothing happens without God's approval.

I honestly have not been following the free-minds.org is a sect thread, and have no interest in doing so. I belong to no sect, and am currently forming my own views about religion, the Quran, and the Sunna as we speak.

If you want to be successful then make God the focal point as opposed to pleasing the people. Expect lots of enemy if you speak the truth,

If you have nothing to contribute, please leave.

I did contribute by speaking the truth. You will not succeed if you maintain this attitude. It is a futile attempt to supress the truth.

Peace.

Yaqub

Mr. Guest seems to be on a mission claiming the free-minds.org is a sect.

That fftopic. I say again that if you have nothing left to contribute to this thread, please leave this thread, and go back to your free-minds.org is a sect thread! I hate to say it but the last thing I care about in this world is that you think free-minds.org is a sect.

I repeat again that I would not like to debate on this thread with you, and neither do the other posters... All that was left on this thread was college students sharing stories.

I guess the best strategy left now is to ignore your posts.

Rev_John

This is not a good advise. Why do you advocate suppressing the truth. I am making innocent people aware of truth. And nothing happens without God's approval.

If you want to be successful then make God the focal point as opposed to pleasing the people. Expect lots of enemy if you speak the truth,

I did contribute by speaking the truth. You will not succeed if you maintain this attitude. It is a futile attempt to supress the truth.

Peace.

Only God knows the truth, you don't.

guest

Only God knows the truth, you don't.

And the God has revealed truth to mankind and jinnkind, only the good people, the righteous people are able to comprehend the truth and convey it to others.

I hope you are not implying that the God kept the truth to Himself and kept us in the dark.

Peace.

guest

I guess the best strategy left now is to ignore your posts.

Is this your teaching, or the teaching of your God or the teaching of this web site?

Ahmad_Bilal

Then why do the call God, "God"? laugh

Good question... laugh Nowadays, after doing a lot of study on the name (title, description) "Allah", I don't like the concept of referring to the Creator as "God", at least not in most cases (it's a different circumstance if I'm talking to people of other religions). The word "god" is so vague and amendable, meaning simply something you worship or devote yourself to, which is why it can be applied to anything. Based on this description, a "god" can be money, sports, television, cars, people, intoxicants (any addictive substances), books, games, or anything else. It can also be pluralized and gendered ("gods" and "goddesses&quot. This is completely different from "Allah", since this name/title can ONLY refer to one Being, the "rabb" of the universe. There can be no plurality or gender in the name "Allah", nor can it refer to anything other than the Almighty Creator of the heavens and earth. So, from now on, I mostly refer to the Creator as Allah, not "God"...

imfromjakarta

Salam Ahmad Bilal,

Good question... laugh Nowadays, after doing a lot of study on the name (title, description) "Allah", I don't like the concept of referring to the Creator as "God", at least not in most cases (it's a different circumstance if I'm talking to people of other religions). The word "god" is so vague and amendable, meaning simply something you worship or devote yourself to, which is why it can be applied to anything. Based on this description, a "god" can be money, sports, television, cars, people, intoxicants (any addictive substances), books, games, or anything else. It can also be pluralized and gendered ("gods" and "goddesses&quot. This is completely different from "Allah", since this name/title can ONLY refer to one Being, the "rabb" of the universe. There can be no plurality or gender in the name "Allah", nor can it refer to anything other than the Almighty Creator of the heavens and earth. So, from now on, I mostly refer to the Creator as Allah, not "God"...

I could not agree more with you. Do you a translation of al-Qur'an in English that can be as literal as it can be?

For example = Allah is used instead og God, ma malakat aymanakum = what is your right hand possessed

san

Allah is the most beautiful name and word.

Yet i think, when someone is doing, say, a charity to an orphan or a stranger poor man--spontaneously or out of habit in submission--he would just suddenly feel his Creator's blessing in his heart.

No words involved.

That is heavens better than arguing about "God" is Allah or "God" is not "Allah",

een my humble opeeneeon...

Peace.

Ahmad_Bilal

Wa salaam Imfromjakarta,

I could not agree more with you. Do you a translation of al-Qur'an in English that can be as literal as it can be?

For example = Allah is used instead og God, ma malakat aymanakum = what is your right hand possessed

To be honest, I've been going through a bunch of English translations and comparing them to the Arabic texts, trying to see which one gives a more literal, and logical, translation of the scripture. So far, the best one I've seen is the one by Maulana Muhammad Ali, since he translates the Qur'aan from a REASONABLE perspective, rejecting mythical concepts like Moses striking the sea with his stick and causing it to split in two; Jonah being completely swallowed by a fish and remaining inside the belly for 3 days; the virgin birth; the miracles of Jesus; Abraham being literally thrown into a blazing fire and not being burned; Jesus being "taken" by Allah and flying into the heavens to escape from his attackers; and many other stories that seemingly conflict with the laws of nature (as they're portrayed in other translations). Many people rejected his work because of his "mark" as being with the Ahmadi fold of Islaam, as a follow of Ghulam Ahmad, but, in my opinion, that doesn't change the quality of his work. Muhammad Ali's is the only translation that I've seen that tries to thoroughly examine all of these "miraculous" works and interpret them logically. His translation is also the only one (that I've seen) that readily accepts scientific doctrines as being supported in the Qur'aan (i.e. the big bang, genetic human and animal evolution, life on other planets, etc.)... And, of course, he doesn't replace "Allah" with "God", since he considered Allah to be the unique name/title of the Creator...

Peace,

Ahmad

san

So, from now on, I mostly refer to the Creator as Allah, not "God"...

Peace, Ahmad Bilal, maybe it's time to make a little change to your signature?

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace San,

Peace, Ahmad Bilal, maybe it's time to make a little change to your signature?

laugh I forgot all about my signature... Oh well, people know what I mean. I'll probably change it later, maybe even put something else there. Thanks for the reminder...

Peace,

Ahmad

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace Ahmad

And, of course, he doesn't replace "Allah" with "God", since he considered Allah to be the unique name/title of the Creator...

This is nonsense, and is easily refuted.

God mentioned 114 of his names/descriptions in the reading
17110 Say, "Call on God or call on the Almighty ("al rahman&quot. Whichever it is you call on, to Him are the best names/decriptions." Do not be loud with your bond, nor quiet, but seek a path in-between.
63 Wahuwa Allahu fee alssamawatiwafee al-ardi yaAAlamu sirrakum wajahrakum wayaAAlamu mataksiboona
63 He is the god in the heavens and in the earth...
If you substitute "God", "Allah" or any other proper name for "the god", it will not make sense.

Conclusion the creator of the Universe has no unique name.