The difference between us and sunnis/shias
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I?d really like to know more about imam shafi and his role on hadith. know of any books/ site i could read?
I think part of the problem is people not knowing history. People will always blind follow because it?s easy and it is accepted. I think if you can get people to read history it might get them thinking because they?re too scared to read their own book of belief as they might misinterpret it so history might help i think. Though you can lead a horse to water but you can?t make it drink.
Salaam.
You can try 'Hadith as Scripture Discussions on the Authority of Prophetic Traditions in Islam' by Aisha Musa.I have to agree, it's easy to just listen to what others say and follow them. Especially if you've been taught since you're little not to question, or that it's a sin to do so.
I know what you mean about leading a horse to water. I could buy all the books in the world in the hopes that my husband would read them (or even a different translation of the Qur'an), but I can't make him. He'll just say "such and such imam said this so I'm going to follow him". (
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After about a year of contemplating, I have come to the conclusion that the different between us and shias/sunnis is that we believe in the freedom of interpreting religion, while they don't.
In a discussion today my friend were discussing random topics in Islam. He claimed that hadith are infallible, the prophet was infallible, the imams that interpret hadith are infallible (because hadith are so clear and elaborating that there are no two sides), ect.
This discussion basically epitomized my experiences with devout sunni/shiias
I just stood there with my mouth open (allegorically).
Any thoughts?
Peace everyone,
There is no significant difference between Sunnis/Shiites and Quran Aloners. Even so-called Quran Aloners(Quranists) can be termed sectarian since they are also divided as Rashadites(those belonging to submitters international), 19ers(those belonging to Edip & Co), Free-Minders(those belonging to this forum),... In reality, every group is a cult and nurtures cultist attitude.
The main difference is as under
Sunnis/Shiites Quran, Prophet, Hadiths, Imams are infallible
Quran Aloners Quran is infallible(which is not the case).
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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The imam said so means that they are following the blind following of their scholars which is forbidden is Islam. Is Quran not an open book for everyone to read? If you follow Ijtihad then the answer is yes if you follow taqlid the answer is no. The issue here is when sunnism started out they believed in Ijtihad(independent reasoning) and condemned taqlid(Blind following) in all its forms. After Imam shafi and his hadith movement came on the scene and battle between the mutazilites and the asharites and the sacking of Baghdad all this changed and Ijtihad lost its prestige and was grounded in favor of taqlid. There was a fight between the proponents of Ijtihad and the proponents of Taqlid but unfortunately Imam Shafi and Imam Ghazali were the winner that day. Notwithstanding the fact that taqlid was a system of the shias the sunnis today follow it religiously and condemn anyone who dares to commit Ijtihad. This is the root of all evil in Islam or sunnism today. The following of taqlid that is. May the curse of God be upon those who follow taqlid. The blind following of hadith and the blind following of the scholars or their fatwas without any regard to the Quran is all due to taqlid. It is due to taqlid that the sunnis remain committed to their past scholars and glorify them and do not ponder over the Quran. Think about this for a minute. If whatever is in the Quran has already been explained by the previous interpreters than who needs the Quran and there is no need for new interpretations based on Quran as all has been explained already. Truly human stupidity knows no limits. Sunnism today is the corrupted form of the original sunnism which was based on ijtihad and condemned taqlid in all its forms. Taqlid was and remains the domain of the shias who love to follow their divine imams.
In addition to that the hadith are simply fabrications. Muhammad could not have possible disobeyed God and still be given revelations from God. God makes this clear in the Quran. Muhammad could not have stoned adulterers, screwed a girl who according to hadith (satanic) scripture was IMMATURE (the sunni's believe "if they don't menstruate" in the Quran proves you can sodomize little girls rotfl but then again there are GROWN WOMEN who don't mentruate, so this is an example among an infinite many of sunni ignorance) and do a bunch of other stupid crap like WOOO LET'S KILL THE BLACK DOGS!
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Selam Hope,
yeah I never got a dowry myself. When I asked my husband about it recently, he said they don't do that anymore, and normally my father would've received the money.
I'm wondering about the dowry too.Selam aynur
In Turkey a dowry is called ba$lik parasi. I think it was ban by the goverment because it was considered backward and people use to practically sell their daughters to the highest bidder.
What I would like to know as well is that the dowry obviously must have served a purpose in them days and probably in some countries these days. What was it? Does anymore have a theory?
Peace
Hope
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Yesterday, I had some day!
I went to an honors discussion seminar at my university (I am a student), and met a Feminist-Arab professor. She was very liberal, and was the first "reformist" muslim I had ever met in my life. Though her work mainly concerns feminism in Arab society, she, of course, has to do some Quranic research. Currently, she is analyzing all of the verses that refer to the veil or modesty among men in women in the Quran-quite fascinating!
After I came back home, I was talking to my Saudi room mate about the differences among our views of religion. Like I have already concluded you either believe the world is black and white, or that there are some areas that are gray (you believe either in interpretation in religion or you don't). Anyway throughout the discussion, I found out that he does NOT believe in evolution. Whatever he learned about it, was rhetoric against it. That leaves me to think how backward Saudi institutions are in biology! If you don't believe in evolution... do you still take flu shots? how do you do taxonomy? where did MRSA come from? what about stem cell research? embryology?
brickwall In one evening I went from highly liberal to highly conservative. This is an intellectual roller coaster ride!
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don't leave your judgement on just one aspect.
i'm sure there are others who don't believe in evolution. i don't know much about it but i can't fathom the logic that i was an ape. but in other terms of evolution sure it exists, humans evolve not 1 of us are the same.,,
but anyway nice that you met someone who shares similar views as yourself.
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I went to an honors discussion seminar at my university (I am a student), and met a Feminist-Arab professor. She was very liberal, and was the first "reformist" muslim I had ever met in my life. Though her work mainly concerns feminism in Arab society, she, of course, has to do some Quranic research. Currently, she is analyzing all of the verses that refer to the veil or modesty among men in women in the Quran-quite fascinating!
Feel free to show her
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm -
Yes Sarah,
I am not completely ignorant to the fact that all Americans do not believe in evolution, and I am also familiar with the argument of believing in microevolution, but not macroevolution. As long as you know and understand pure natural selection, then you can formulate whatever views you want, but I am strictly opposed to people who do not teach it in schools.
Also Wakas, I was wondering about reading some of the professors conclusions. Perhaps, I should research independently into the veil and see if we reach the same conclusion in the end.
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My Saudi room mate again As my facebook status says "I am sick of hyperconservatives."
His culture is just SOOO different than mine, and I am not even 100% American. I still have a strong Indian presence with the language (I speak Hindi), food, customs, pop culture, geographic knowledge, regular cultural knowledge, history, ect...
I guess our Indian culture is pretty much in harmony with American culture, as opposed to Saudi. Would you guys agree?
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My Saudi room mate again As my facebook status says "I am sick of hyperconservatives."
His culture is just SOOO different than mine, and I am not even 100% American. I still have a strong Indian presence with the language (I speak Hindi), food, customs, pop culture, geographic knowledge, regular cultural knowledge, history, ect...
I guess our Indian culture is pretty much in harmony with American culture, as opposed to Saudi. Would you guys agree?
Western culture rules this world. So it is better to be in harmony with it.
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are you implicating that we should agree and be like american culture?
Indian culture is better than American (just my opinion)
all people have culture parts of which are interesting, beneficial others are just not..
what do you know about Saudi culture?
What is culture hmmwearing thongs confused
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After about a year of contemplating, I have come to the conclusion that the different between us and shias/sunnis is that we believe in the freedom of interpreting religion, while they don't.
Any thoughts?Sunni DO believe in freedom to interpret religion but extend it only to their own institutions.
Quranists generally are more open to correct, in my experience.
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Western culture rules this world. So it is better to be in harmony with it.
Why is this? Western culture has plenty of flaws, and it's advisable to stay away from parts of it...
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Ahmad Bilal I think he means it is dominating the world.
All culture has pros and cons and culture differs from families and individuals.
That is exactly what I mean.
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Ahmad Bilal I think he means it is dominating the world.
All culture has pros and cons and culture differs from families and individuals.
Oh, okay, that makes sense. I thought he was saying that everyone should absorb western culture, since it's, in some ways, "better" than others... Thanks... peace
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No culture is better or worse.
4913 (Asad) O men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of God is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, God is all-knowing, all-aware.
4911 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! No men shall deride men it may well be that those are better than themselves; and no women women it may well be that those are better than them selves. And neither shall you defame one another, nor insult one another by epithets evil is all imputation of iniquity after faith; and they who do not repent - it is they, they who are evildoers!
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No culture is better or worse.
I agree.
