The difference between us and sunnis/shias
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I went to an honors discussion seminar at my university (I am a student), and met a Feminist-Arab professor. She was very liberal, and was the first "reformist" muslim I had ever met in my life. Though her work mainly concerns feminism in Arab society, she, of course, has to do some Quranic research. Currently, she is analyzing all of the verses that refer to the veil or modesty among men in women in the Quran-quite fascinating!
Feel free to show her
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm -
Yes Sarah,
I am not completely ignorant to the fact that all Americans do not believe in evolution, and I am also familiar with the argument of believing in microevolution, but not macroevolution. As long as you know and understand pure natural selection, then you can formulate whatever views you want, but I am strictly opposed to people who do not teach it in schools.
Also Wakas, I was wondering about reading some of the professors conclusions. Perhaps, I should research independently into the veil and see if we reach the same conclusion in the end.
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My Saudi room mate again As my facebook status says "I am sick of hyperconservatives."
His culture is just SOOO different than mine, and I am not even 100% American. I still have a strong Indian presence with the language (I speak Hindi), food, customs, pop culture, geographic knowledge, regular cultural knowledge, history, ect...
I guess our Indian culture is pretty much in harmony with American culture, as opposed to Saudi. Would you guys agree?
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My Saudi room mate again As my facebook status says "I am sick of hyperconservatives."
His culture is just SOOO different than mine, and I am not even 100% American. I still have a strong Indian presence with the language (I speak Hindi), food, customs, pop culture, geographic knowledge, regular cultural knowledge, history, ect...
I guess our Indian culture is pretty much in harmony with American culture, as opposed to Saudi. Would you guys agree?
Western culture rules this world. So it is better to be in harmony with it.
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are you implicating that we should agree and be like american culture?
Indian culture is better than American (just my opinion)
all people have culture parts of which are interesting, beneficial others are just not..
what do you know about Saudi culture?
What is culture hmmwearing thongs confused
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After about a year of contemplating, I have come to the conclusion that the different between us and shias/sunnis is that we believe in the freedom of interpreting religion, while they don't.
Any thoughts?Sunni DO believe in freedom to interpret religion but extend it only to their own institutions.
Quranists generally are more open to correct, in my experience.
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Western culture rules this world. So it is better to be in harmony with it.
Why is this? Western culture has plenty of flaws, and it's advisable to stay away from parts of it...
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Ahmad Bilal I think he means it is dominating the world.
All culture has pros and cons and culture differs from families and individuals.
That is exactly what I mean.
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Ahmad Bilal I think he means it is dominating the world.
All culture has pros and cons and culture differs from families and individuals.
Oh, okay, that makes sense. I thought he was saying that everyone should absorb western culture, since it's, in some ways, "better" than others... Thanks... peace
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No culture is better or worse.
4913 (Asad) O men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of God is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, God is all-knowing, all-aware.
4911 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! No men shall deride men it may well be that those are better than themselves; and no women women it may well be that those are better than them selves. And neither shall you defame one another, nor insult one another by epithets evil is all imputation of iniquity after faith; and they who do not repent - it is they, they who are evildoers!
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No culture is better or worse.
I agree.
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Selam all
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
the ones who possess intelligence.I feel we can get many good examples from all cultures and follow the best.
Peace
Hope
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Thanks for the post guys, many good points were brought up.
I agree that no culture is better or worse than another culture, but I do believe that some cultures may be more open to religious interpretation than others. As another posts mentions, sunnis do believe in religious interpretation, but, say in Saudi Arabia, that authority is left for the most part to the clerics.
Anyway yesterday a funny thing happened at my local mosque. After salat, we have a nice literal ritual of reading some hadith. The hadith that was read claimed that Muslim men were not permitted to raise hands and say salam to women passing, as this could lead to temptation and sin. The hadith also mentioned that Muhammed (PBUH), did in fact do this-he said salam to women passing by, but the explanation given was funny. The hadith compiler (whoever he was) claimed that Muhammed was sinless, so this was okay for him, but not advisable for normal-lay men. brickwall That is the problem with hadith. Let us assume that this hadith is authentic. Muhammed said salam to women passing by-that is a normal, everyday behavior for all of us. However, some scholar who was around 1200 years ago believes that Muhammed did this because_____, and we can/cannot do this because __________. It is just this scholar's interpretation! It is not God's word; it is not Muhammed's word; for the most part it isn't even logical!
A few brothers as my masjid disagreed with this hadith. They read the hadith, and questioned it. However, the moment they walked out of the door-they behaved opposite to what they were preaching. There was a pretty messed up American women begging for money (she looked like a prostitute-druggie). The first thing the brother did was to tell her to get out of the men's section of the mosque. brickwall One second you advocate for women's rights, and literally the next second you tell women to get out of your face?? I mean the brother could have asked her nicely to move, and then to talk to her-like a human being, and ask her what she wanted. Fortunately, another brother who likes to do social work took care of her.
The world that we live in....
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I live with a Sunni. I wake up every morning to a confessed Sunni and it has posed no problems at all. This is because Sunnis come in several different flavors. Her family are devout religious but her dad has always 'shown a way' rather than preaching to his children and thus his daughters are now religious and wears the hijabb out of love of God and respect their dad's example. I have the utmost respect for this man, there is no doubt that he reads the Quran and use some hadith for spice (in that order). He has never told his children any of the strange or messenger offending hadith and I think this is because he ignores them and pretend they are not there. So their relationship with hadith seems to be limited to the method of prayer and a few other bells and whistles. Ofcourse there is the whole mecca, hajj thing, but I will have to view this man on his actions, as judging his faith is reserved for someone else and to me he is an exemplary human being and an inspiration. If the women start talking gossip he either leaves the room or tells them kindly to continue with the "woman news" when he has left. He spend a part of each late evening reading and reciting the Quran. He is always polite and freindly and you can tell it is genuine. There may be some theological subjects we disagree on like Mecca, but we both know that God knows the truth and we will both be informed so heated debate is pointless and respectless. In fact, I wish I was more like this Sunni man as a person, but in time perhaps it will rub off a little on me. Im told he 'grew with it' and used to have a short temper
Unfortunally his kind is rare. I know of a few other families like this, friends of my father in law obviously. But my other run ins with sunnis has not been as good. Friendly until you start asking the wrong questions. He accepted my marriage proposal to his daughter knowing that I was not a Sunni, his criterion was that I believed in God and the messengers. That was it. If his daughter thought I was good enough for her, and I believed in God, then I was good enough for him. How many devout Sunnis (tho whole ball of vax, the long beard the arabian clothes and funny hat) in their 60's do you know of who would do like that?
But the reason im telling you this story is because I think it is important not to create a "them and us" situation, because as people on the street there are many sunnis closer to our point of view than the dominant salafi/wahabi one. Which btw. he loathes with a passion and often talks about the vises of. And confronting these undecided sunnis with hard words, and telling them that their family and traditions are crackpot, is certain to push some of them further into the cult...
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Jibreel, thank you for your post and your story.
I agree with you that there are many sunnis who are like us. In fact, I used to be one, as are many in my community back home (composed of many 1st and 2nd generation immigrants). Unfortunately, I now attend college where most of the Muslims (about 80% of the masjid's population are international students) follow the Wahabi version of Islam or some other version they learned back home. I have to deal with them everyday, I even live with a Wahabi, and it is exhausting. That is why I started this thread... basically as a coping mechanism. I hope you don't mind.
My intention is not to create differences.
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Peace
I am also confused about this issue because problem everywhere is the same.
In addition to Quran
Sunnis/Shia use Ahadiths
Some Quranists use 19
Some Quranists use www.blablabla.com
Some Quranists use incscriptions
Some Quranists use Hadiths ul Lugha i.e dictionaries
No one is using PURE QURAN .
Everyone has his own reasons.
Regard"Everyone has his own reasons" This is the summary of your complaint! REASON, worse OWN reason. It must be nor reason; correct? Well, perhaps it is okay to have reason, but it must be only MY REASON!
You have spilled the beans my dear friend with two words that you have biggest problem
OWN
REASONor
Owning Reason.
or
Not following someone else blindly.
or
Not acting like robots.
or
Believing that each will be responsible for their OWN choice.
I think you summarized the best thing about those who do not follow hadith and sunna. They are FREE people who are not scared of using THEIR OWN (not a fascist mind-controller's) reason.
Let me add one more point
The worst individually made reasoning (own reasoning) is better than the best blind following! One has chance to lead to truth and monotheism, but the other has no chance.
Peace,
Edip
