my anaylsis of the word DRB
-
2077
?faidrib lahum tareeqan fee albahri yabasan?
?and strike for them a dry road across the sea? (Khalifa)
Finally, a time came when We commanded Moses, "Take away My servants by night and find for them a dry path through the Sea of Reeds. Fear not of being overtaken (by Pharaoh), and dread not the sea." (QXP)?then strike (!) / put forth for / to them a road in the sea dry?
Now that?s the literal translation of the DRB part. None of the translators above recognized DRB as ?hit? in this verse and it?s definitely not hitting. That?s not the point either. You can see here that Moses was ordered to take a DRY ROAD. Not a road between two mountain-like waves. So what about the sea being splitted? This ayah proves that it was metaphorical.
260
?idrib biAAasaka alhajara?
?"Strike the rock with your staff."? (Khalifa)
?"Smite the rock with your staff."? (QXP)7160
?idrib biAAasaka alhajara?
?"Strike the rock with your staff" ? (Khalifa)
?"Strike the rock with your staff!"? (QXP)2663
Faawhayna ila moosa ani idrib biAAasaka albahra fainfalaqa fakana kullu firqin kaalttawdi alAAatheemi
? "Strike the sea with your staff," ? (Khalifa)
Then We revealed to Moses, "Strike the sea with your staff. (Seek for them a dry path with confidence. Cross over the dried up Sea of Reeds (2077), (4424)). The morning found the two parties apart like two hills with a basin in between. (QXP)After reading brother Wakas?s interpretation of a few ayat I came to a conclusion that nowhere in the Quran was DRB used as ?hitting?. Since we learned that it can mean ?to point at? I think Moses is NOT striking his staff in these ayat he is pointing with it.
3793
Faragha AAalayhim darban bialyameeni
So he then turned on them, striking with his hand. (Free-minds)
Then he turned upon them, striking them with the right hand (struck them hard). (QXP)(ragha) has meanings like ?to con his way; to turn attention?. Whatever is done here is done by hand. Sounds like hitting but I translate this ayah as
He conned his way over them pointing with right hand
What baffled me was why the right hand wasn?t used with ?his? like biyameenihi. Could we use "oath" as a possible alternative to right hand? If so, how... I couldn't find a possible translation with DRB and oath...
474
?fadarba alrriqabi ?
Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you overpower them, then bind them securely. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste. (Free-minds)Now if you meet the disbelievers in battle, strike at their command centers. When you have subdued them, bind in a firm bond, and thereafter an act of kindness or ransom till the battle lays down its weapons. (Free the captives as an act of kindness or ransom, such as in exchange for your men in their captivity. There is no third option). And if Allah willed, He could indeed punish them Himself, but that He may let you humans test one by means of another (as to which nation remains vigilant). And, as for those who are slain in the Cause of Allah, He will never let their actions be lost. (QXP)
Rikab (ب has two meaning in my dictionary neck; captives of war
This word appears in Quran exactly 22 times and 3 times of these as (rikab). In none of these ayat it can be translated as ?neck?. To see all of its appearances click here. Correct me If I?m wrong but as I can see Quran uses the word ?ceedu? for neck as in Sura Tabbat. Plus it would make more sense if it was ?their neck? like ?rikabahum?. What does ?strike / smite necks? mean? It sounds absurd. So what?s the thing to be hit / mix / put forth / go ?
If we read on we can see that it mentions a bond / meesak to be bound. Later it talks about captives of war. So how could the right translation be?
That?s my 2 cents here. Literal
Fe-i? lak?tumu-lle?ne kefer? fedarbe-rrik?bi hatt? i? eantum?hum feudd?-lve?ka?
And when you meet who are ungratefuls then take away / shut / set / put forth captives of war till you have subdued them then strenghten the bondI don't think there is a ayah where DRB means "to hit". The meaning is post-Quranic. Because if there is one ayah it could mean "to hit" we face the question of "why is it not hitting in 434 then"?
Salaam...
-
peace b_a,
Nice to see you post again.
Coincidentally, just yesterday I finished my provisional analysis of DRB in Al Quran, excluding 434. Regarding Moses and his staff, it is important to note the use of "so/then" (Arabic fa) after, implying first DRB then/so happened to the rock/sea. Even if it means strike here, it is not really a problem, because we are told what is struck and what with. When it means strike, this seems to be the common pattern of usage in Classical Arabic dictionaries for example.
Thanks for your observation on 474. I did consider that al riqab meaning 'the necks' was the odd one out in Al Quran, but it seems to come across as an idiom here, and many think the same. Please see my provisional analysis of DRB
http//mypercept.co.uk/DRB.html
I would appreciate if you and/or others could go through it, to determine errors or a pattern of usage. I will be returning to it once I review my notes on 434, of which there are many.
-
Thank you Wakas, good to see you again too )
I guess you're right about fa. But the thing is it will sound illogical however you translate it if you take fa as then. Whatever happened when Moses did something with his stick it must have been seen right away. I'm confused as hell brickwall
Anyways waiting for your analysis. giveup
-
This interpretation is encapsulated in many sources. The following Classical Arabic dictionaries (Lisan ul 3arab; Al-Sah-haah fil lugha; Al Qamoos al-Muheet and Maqayees allugha) have three renditions
1- With might and right
2- By his right hand
2- By his oath, as per 2157 where he made an oath to destroy the idols.Therefore, are there any Classical Arabic meanings of DRB that possibly fit better? The following could also be used casting forth, flinging/throwing, putting forth.
He turned on them flinging with the right hand
It doesn't add up for me. If it had been his right hand the sentence would be like "bi yameeni-hi." Why is there "al" before "yameen"? Is it grammaticaly correct? It's gotta be something with his oath the oath given to God but I'm clueless.
idrib bi AAasaka al bahra fa infalaqa = strike with your staff the sea, then it split/separated
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa infajarat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then vented from it (twelve springs)
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa inbajasat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then gushed from it (twelve springs)
It is likely that in the above case, the rock cracked or breached, see 274 "...from them are those that split/breach so that water comes forth...".
But you can't breach a rock with just a stick just like Abraham couldn't have broken the idol just with his hand. We are missing something here.
-
Salaam all,
I had not seen the last messages in this thread. Really, this d-r-b study is a source of wondering, because it brings out so much we didn't notice... I least I didn't.
I have been studying Waka's text on this subject, And was surprised at your messages because I did come to the same conclusion, that there is not a single instance in the whole Qur'an where d-r-b is not used figuratively, or that at the very least when rendered figurativel doesn't make much more sense than taken as literally hitting.
Good rendering the hitting the sea road, thanks.
Now, reading you and wondering about the construction; daraba mathal, idrib lahum tariqan, yadribu Allah al haqqa wal batila... could it be that idribuhunna means make them come to a sttlement or a clear statement of purpose or intentions, make a pronnouncement... Seems the obvious, like "now that you have seen all, it is up to you".
One obvious question that arises when we take and idiomatic meaning in 4.34 as the ones we have voiced is how did it come then to it being consistently understood as beat. People just cannot believe that if the meaning at the moment of revelation was the idiomatic as stated that it should have been changed to the beat one without nobody objecting or without ever leaving a trace of the proper understanding. I can think of a few reasons or ways myself, but apart from them being plausible, I would prefer if there was some documental material to supprt them as well.
Thanks for your excelent work and in advance for anything you may bring up.
Salaam
