Al arab =/= The arabs
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Peace,
It's important not to assume what a word means, without extensive cross-referencing and research.
Let's look at 9102
And from Al arabu around you are hypocrites, as well as from the city people/ahul al madinah, they persist in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice, then they will be returned to a great punishment.
It's important to understand 'madinah' here, because of the contrasting relationship between the two.
Madinah has been used in
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The Lot story, 1567
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The Moses story, 2815.
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The Joseph story, 1230.
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The dwellers of the cave, 1819.
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Saleh's story, 2748.
In conclusion, Al arabu = people outside the city/ desert folk. They are not all bad people, either (999).
All related feed-back is welcome.
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9101
Also uses the partitive "min" / from/among, implying it is a section among them. Secondly, since it contrasts this to people of the city, this clearly suggests it is better translated as nomads/bedouin, and further, to translate and capitalise it into Arabs implies there are no Arabs living in the city, which is of course nonsensical. Thus, it is basically saying there are good and bad people everywhere, all around, no matter from city or nomadic people.
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Doesn't 'arabu' refer to Bedouins/Arabs who don't live in the city? If so, then wouldn't 'nomads' wouldn't be an accurate translation, since 'arabu' has something to do with Arabs?
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9101
Also uses the partitive "min" / from/among, implying it is a section among them. Secondly, since it contrasts this to people of the city, this clearly suggests it is better translated as nomads/bedouin, and further, to translate and capitalise it into Arabs implies there are no Arabs living in the city, which is of course nonsensical. Thus, it is basically saying there are good and bad people everywhere, all around, no matter from city or nomadic people.
I had the same thoughts.
Doesn't 'arabu' refer to Bedouins/Arabs who don't live in the city? If so, then wouldn't 'nomads' wouldn't be an accurate translation, since 'arabu' has something to do with Arabs?
Already been addressed
...to translate and capitalise it into Arabs implies there are no Arabs living in the city, which is of course nonsensical. Thus, it is basically saying there are good and bad people everywhere, all around, no matter from city or nomadic people.
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Peace Jack,
It's important not to assume what a word means, without extensive cross-referencing and research.
Let's look at 9102
And from Al arabu around you are hypocrites, as well as from the city people/ahul al madinah, they persist in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice, then they will be returned to a great punishment.
It's important to understand 'madinah' here, because of the contrasting relationship between the two.
Madinah has been used in- The Lot story, 1567
- The Moses story, 2815.
- The Joseph story, 1230.
- The dwellers of the cave, 1819.
- Saleh's story, 2748.
In conclusion, Al arabu = people outside the city/ desert folk. They are not all bad people, either (999).
All related feed-back is welcome.
Thank you for initiating this topic. This is actually very important to the proper understanding of the great reading. As you noted, the word "a'rab" is used in contrast to city dwellers. Therefore, I think that it means, "dwellers of the wilderness". This would also indicate that the word "arabi" used to describe the language of the great reading would mean "wild" language or "unsophisticated" language, in other words a street language.
In addition to the fact that the nomads (dwellers of the wilderness) are always described in the great reading as the outsiders as you noted, it is evident that the prophet lived in a multi-cultural cosmopolitan town where people engaged in agriculture and commerce. Therefore it is certain from the great reading that the people of the prophet were city dwellers and not desert dwellers. So it is in the language of the city dwellers and not the nomads. This is the opposite of what traditions propose. Traditionalists turned things on their head and made the nomads the supposed ultimate arbiters of Arabic linguistics.
I think that this single observation that you made holds the key to how present Classical Arabic and Islamic culture developped.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Jack,
Already been addressed
This didnt address my question. What I meant is that "nomads" does not (necessarily) refer to Bedouins/Arab nomads. You could have Celtic nomads, for example. If, however, "arabu" is a word that refers to nomads in general, then that translation is correct. Just by looking at the word "arabu" one would think that it has something to do Arabs. If it has nothing to do with Arabs, what is the Arabic word for "Arabs" then?
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Peace Progressive1993,
This didnt address my question. What I meant is that "nomads" does not (necessarily) refer to Bedouins/Arab nomads. You could have Celtic nomads, for example. If, however, "arabu" is a word that refers to nomads in general, then that translation is correct.
Yes, it refers to nomads, in general.
Just by looking at the word "arabu" one would think that it has something to do Arabs.
Why? Assumption is not evidence. 1736 is one of the commandments. By looking at the word 'deen' people say religion! Or zakat = charity, etc.
what is the Arabic word for "Arabs" then?
Why should there be an arabic word for arabs?
Peace Ayman,
This would also indicate that the word "arabi" used to describe the language of the great reading would mean "wild" language or "unsophisticated" language, in other words a street language.
This is interesting, I also considered this. Doesn't this imply that the messenger was an outsider , because of 144?
How do you understand 16103 ?
Metaphorically, it means that it's in the language of outsiders, hence for all of mankind !. A reading that we are to spread, etc.
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Why? Assumption is not evidence. 1736 is one of the commandments. By looking at the word 'deen' people say religion! Or zakat = charity, etc.
Why? Because the word is ARABu. The word 'deen' is easily defined using dictionaries and 936. Zakat cannot mean charity based on 2177 and 5812-13.
Why should there be an arabic word for arabs?
Me (in arabic) are you an Arab?
Arab What?OR
Me (in arabic) what ethnicity are you?
Arab mmmh... sorry the word for my ethnicity doesnt exist in the Arabic vocabulary...There HAS to be a word for "Arab" in Arabic.
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Doesn't this imply that the messenger was an outsider , because of 144?
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat44_files/44_58.gif
So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.There HAS to be a word for "Arab" in Arabic.
Yes they call themslves Arabs. yes
only because there is no other word for them so they don't have a choice.
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From wiki
An Arab (Arabic , arabi)
Arabs ( al-arab)
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Why? Because the word is ARABu. The word 'deen' is easily defined using dictionaries and 936. Zakat cannot mean charity based on 2177 and 5812-13.
Me (in arabic) are you an Arab?
Arab What?OR
Me (in arabic) what ethnicity are you?
Arab mmmh... sorry the word for my ethnicity doesnt exist in the Arabic vocabulary...There HAS to be a word for "Arab" in Arabic.
Correlation does not imply or mean causation. Still no evidence? Let me get this straight for other concepts (zakat for example) you will do cross-referencing, but arabu, it's arabs because it 'looks' like arabs? Ok, man - each his own. We'll have to agree to disagree, unless you wanna put forth actual evidence.
Al quran also uses 'madinah', is it talking about the city of madinah?
Me (in arabic) are you an Arab?
Arab What?OR
Me (in arabic) what ethnicity are you?
Arab mmmh... sorry the word for my ethnicity doesnt exist in the Arabic vocabulary...There HAS to be a word for "Arab" in Arabic.
The quran is not in modern arabic. If you read the sequence, starting from 26192, al quran has existed long before its unveiling unto Muhammad.
Please, stay on topic. This thread is about what the reading/al quran says about al arabu. Thanks.
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Peace Jack,
Correlation does not imply or mean causation. Still no evidence? Let me get this straight for other concepts (zakat for example) you will do cross-referencing, but arabu, it's arabs because it 'looks' like arabs? Ok, man - each his own. We'll have to agree to disagree, unless you wanna put forth actual evidence.
If you read the sequence, starting from 26192, al quran has existed before...
Please, stay on topic. This thread is about what the reading/al quran says about al arabu. Thanks.
I agreed with you that it doesnt mean 'Arabs'. The only issue was what the word for 'Arab(s)' is in Arabic (which I have clarified).
Ayn-Ra-Ba = Arab, Arabic, become Arabic/Arabian, corrupted/disordered/bad, swollen/abundant (said of a camel's hump or water), recrudescent, brisk/lively/sprightly, reply against/to, lopping/pruning a palm-tree, drinking much/clear water.
Clear/plain/distinct speech free from error/incorrectness.
Dwelt/abode in the desert, amorous/loving/passionate, a river that flows with strong/vehement current, obscene/foul speech.
Friday (an ancient name of that day in the Time of Ignorance, or an Arabicized Nabathaen word according to some), the magnified/manifest, seventh heaven.I have noticed that in 990, 998, 999, 4811 and 4816 'al arabi' is used, and in 4914 and 997 'al arabu' is used. Is there a difference?
Wikipedia said that 'arabi' (without 'al' means 'an Arab', and that 'al arab' means 'the Arabs' (plural).
From http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_the_word_Arab
The proper name Arab or "Arabian" (and cognates in other languages) has been used to translate several different but similar sounding words in ancient and classical texts which do not necessarily have the same meaning or origin. The etymology of the term is of course closely linked to that of the place name "Arabia". Grunebaum, in his book Classical Islam said that an approximate translation is "passerby" or "nomad". Will Durant, in The Age of Faith, said that Arab meant "arid".
In the Qur'an, the word arab does not appear, only the nisba adjective, arabiyyun The Qur'an is referring to itself as arabiyyun "Arabic" and mubinun "clear". The two qualities are connected, for example in ayat 43.2-3, "By the clear Book We have made it an Arabic recitation in order that you may understand", and the Qur'an came to be regarded as the prime example of al-arabiyyatu, the language of the Arabs. The term irb is from the same root, referring to a particularly clear and correct mode of speech. Bedouin elders still use this term with the same meaning; those whose speech they comprehend (ie Arabic-speakers) they call Arab, and those whose speech is of unknown meaning to them, they call Ajam (ajam or ajami). In the Persian Gulf region, the term Ajam is often used to refer to the Persians.
The plural noun arb refers to the Bedouin tribes of the desert who resisted Muhammad, for example in ayat 9.97,
al-?a`rbu ?a?addu kufran wa-nifqan "the Bedouin are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy".
Based on this, in early Islamic terminology, arab referred to sedentary Arabs, living in cities such as Mecca and Medina, and arb referred to the Arab Bedouins, carrying a negative connotation due to the Qur'anic verdict just cited. Following the Islamic conquest of the 8th century, however, the language of the nomadic Arabs came to be regarded as preserving the highest purity by the grammarians following Abi Ishaq, and the term kalam al-Arab "language of the Arabs" came to denote the uncontaminated language of the Bedouins.'Al Arabu' could mean 'nomads' or 'desert folk' then, as you have suggested in your opening post or 'bedouins'.
Peace
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Peace Ayman,
You said "So it is in the language of the city dwellers and not the nomads."
I gather from your article that the great reading is written in the Nabatean Aramaic script, but the language is Arabic. From the above, you are saying that the nomads and city dwellers spoke different languages, and, if that is so what are the different languages?
Regards
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al arabi/arabu is plural. There is no singular/dual, as far as I know.
Why are different forms used throughout the Quran? Is it that when 'min' is used, it is 'arabi', and without the 'min' it is 'arabu'?
999 Wamina al-aAArabi...
997 Al-aAArabu...
Bro, anyone can write an article on wikipedia. Anyone can also, edit anything. Trust me, I've done it before. Wiki is a good source for general information, as long as you take it as a pinch of salt. PRL lists most/all of the available definitions (from the dictionaries), not necessarily the ones that fit in the quran, e.g. look at the salat entry (saad-lam-waw).
You're right, but what about the second quote from wiki?
From http//en.allexperts.com/e/e/et/etymology_of_the_word_arab.htm
In Hebrew the words
arav andaravah literally mean "desert" or "steppe". In the Hebrew Bible the latter feminine form is used exclusively for the Arabah, a region associated with the Nabateans, who spoke Arabic. The former masculine form is used in Isaiah 2113 and Ezekiel 2721 for the region of the settlement of Kedar in the Syrian Desert. 2 Chronicles 914 contrasts "kings ofarav " with "governers of the country" when listing those who brought tribute to King Solomon. The word is typically translated Arabia and is the name for Arabia in Modern Hebrew. The New Revised Standard Version of the Bible uses instead the literal translation "desert plain" for the verse in Isaiah. The adjectival nounaravi formed from `arav is used in Isaiah 1320 and Jeremiah 32 for a desert dweller. It is typically translated Arabian or Arab and is the modern Hebrew word for Arab. The New Revised Standard Version uses the translation "nomad" for the verse in Jeremiah.In the Bible, the word
arav is closely associated with the worderev meaning a "mix of people" which has identical spelling in unvowelled text. Jeremiah 2524 parallels "kings ofarav " with "kings of theerev that dwell in the wilderness". The account in 1 Kings 1015 matching 2 Chronicles 914 is traditionally vowellized to read "kings of theerev ". The people in question are understood to be the early Nabateans who do indeed appear to have been a mix of different tribes. The medieval writer Ibn an-Nadim, in Kitab al-Fihrist, derived the word "Arab" from a Syriac pun by Abraham on the same root in his account, Abraham addresses Ishmael and tells him urub, from Syriac `rob, "mingle". -
Why are different forms used throughout the Quran? Is it that when 'min' is used, it is 'arabi', and without the 'min' it is 'arabu'?
999 Wamina al-aAArabi...
997 Al-aAArabu...
No difference between the two, it's just based on how the sentence is structured. You guessed it because of the preposition min.
There is also muslimeen and muslimoon. They both mean the same thing, it's just depends on how the sentence is structured.
You're right, but what about the second quote from wiki?
From http//en.allexperts.com/e/e/et/etymology_of_the_word_arab.htm
In Hebrew the words
arav andaravah literally mean "desert" or "steppe". In the Hebrew Bible the latter feminine form is used exclusively for the Arabah, a region associated with the Nabateans, who spoke Arabic. The former masculine form is used in Isaiah 2113 and Ezekiel 2721 for the region of the settlement of Kedar in the Syrian Desert. 2 Chronicles 914 contrasts "kings ofarav " with "governers of the country" when listing those who brought tribute to King Solomon. The word is typically translated Arabia and is the name for Arabia in Modern Hebrew. The New Revised Standard Version of the Bible uses instead the literal translation "desert plain" for the verse in Isaiah. The adjectival nounaravi formed from `arav is used in Isaiah 1320 and Jeremiah 32 for a desert dweller. It is typically translated Arabian or Arab and is the modern Hebrew word for Arab. The New Revised Standard Version uses the translation "nomad" for the verse in Jeremiah.In the Bible, the word
arav is closely associated with the worderev meaning a "mix of people" which has identical spelling in unvowelled text. Jeremiah 2524 parallels "kings ofarav " with "kings of theerev that dwell in the wilderness". The account in 1 Kings 1015 matching 2 Chronicles 914 is traditionally vowellized to read "kings of theerev ". The people in question are understood to be the early Nabateans who do indeed appear to have been a mix of different tribes. The medieval writer Ibn an-Nadim, in Kitab al-Fihrist, derived the word "Arab" from a Syriac pun by Abraham on the same root in his account, Abraham addresses Ishmael and tells him urub, from Syriac `rob, "mingle".Very interesting.
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Peace Jack,
This is interesting, I also considered this. Doesn't this imply that the messenger was an outsider , because of 144?
Nope. The messenger was not an outsider. The word "arabi" doesn't mean an exclusive language of the "a'rab". It means a wild/natural/street language.
How do you understand 16103 ?
16103 implies that the language of the great reading was not a language of teaching, in other words not a language of literacy and religion.
We know that people at the time used Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek for religious and literary teaching.
Metaphorically, it means that it's in the language of outsiders, hence for all of mankind !. A reading that we are to spread, etc.
It means a vernacular street language, not a formal language of literacy and religion. This is why the "umiyun" (the common people who don't understand the language of literacy) are in contrast to the "people of the book". I hope that you can see the difference between "not understanding" and "illiterate".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Mozmahe,
You said "So it is in the language of the city dwellers and not the nomads."
I gather from your article that the great reading is written in the Nabatean Aramaic script, but the language is Arabic. From the above, you are saying that the nomads and city dwellers spoke different languages, and, if that is so what are the different languages?Not different languages but different dialects that were mutually comprehensible. This would be like the typical Arabic-speaking Middle Eastern country today, there were two main vernacular dialects spoken by the common folk. One dialect was spoken in the rural areas (ANA dialects such as Safaitic) and the other (Arabic) was spoken in the towns. The two dialects were largely mutually comprehensible despite their variances. This is much like say the Egyptian Cairienne dialect spoken by city dwellers and Egyptian Sinai dialect spoken by the nomads are mutually comprehensible. Like those modern day dialects, the dialects of the nomads would have been seen as a more ?rough? dialect than the Old Arabic city dialect. One can see some evidence of this ?roughness?, for example, in the Safaitic definite article (h-) having a demonstrative connotation while this is largely subdued in the Arabic definite article.
This would also resolve another paradox. Why do we find thousands of ANA and Safaitic inscriptions in the deserts of Arabia left by the nomads but very few Old Arabic inscriptions?
When the common people in towns needed to write something, they had access to scribes who could write it in the language of prestige. This is why Old Arabic inscriptions are rare. On the rare occasions when Old Arabic was written, the script of the language of prestige that the scribes of that region were using was used to write it.
When the nomads in the desert needed to write something, it didn?t serve any practical purpose but was done as a form of entertainment to kill time during the long hours of solitary nomadic life. This is why the nomads despite being illiterate scribbled thousands of graffiti in the desert of Northern Arabia. Because the purpose was entertainment and had nothing to do with literacy, they used their oral language. Also, since they didn?t have access to scribes, they used the simplest script that required no adjustments or knowledge of writing standards to represent foreign letters. Prestige was not a factor so they naturally used the Arabian Musnad script which had the 28 letters of Arabic represented.
All this and more can be deduced based on the single important observation from the great reading that Jack made. As far as I know, no one has ever considered that the people of the prophet (and thus their language) was from the city and not the desert when forming theories on Classical Arabic. This holds the key to resolving many paradoxes that have challenged researchers for a long time.
Peace,
Ayman
