becoming dissatisfied with quran translations?

AMS377

As a non-Arabic speaker, I've wondered about this issue too - relying on translations. I would like to know what you all think about the following.

The opening of Surah Baqara indicates the function of the Quran - it is a guidance. Does the Quran as a translation prevent this function? My feeling is that, indeed, certain elements are lost in the translations. Perhpas, the beauty of the rhythm is lost. However, this does not detract from the function of the Quran guide mankind.

002.002
YUSUFALI This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

What do you think about
041.044
YUSUFALI Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes) They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

This verse is particularly relevant since it addresses the hypothetical case of the Quran being in one's non-native tongue. As a foreigner to the language of the Quran, one might lament, "why are not its verses explained in detail?" (4144). When faced with the issue of the language of Quran, God stresses that the book "is a Guide and Healing to those who believe". Again, the function as a source of guidance is stressed. Further, this guidance is only apparent to "those who believe" (4144)

What do you think?

Ams

warda

Salam Zlatan, all

The tehnique is so mighty that i am using it now in a reverse direction -to learn spanish and the german...and maybe the franch in future...i have recently bought a spanish, german and french translations of Koran and i am reading the first two simultaneously with arabic text...of course I am taking also a helping hand of the spanish and german dictionary and grammar book...and i am surprised that i understand much of Koran in spanish now...

So you learn german and spanish from and with the Koran? Not bad....

Which german translation do you use?
As all of you are quite unhappy with the english translations I`m with the german translations. Sometimes they add something and sometimes things are missing...

Salam
warda

Zlatan

As a non-Arabic speaker, I've wondered about this issue too - relying on translations. I would like to know what you all think about the following.

The opening of Surah Baqara indicates the function of the Quran - it is a guidance. Does the Quran as a translation prevent this function? My feeling is that, indeed, certain elements are lost in the translations. Perhpas, the beauty of the rhythm is lost. However, this does not detract from the function of the Quran guide mankind.

002.002
YUSUFALI This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

What do you think about
041.044
YUSUFALI Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes) They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

This verse is particularly relevant since it addresses the hypothetical case of the Quran being in one's non-native tongue. As a foreigner to the language of the Quran, one might lament, "why are not its verses explained in detail?" (4144). When faced with the issue of the language of Quran, God stresses that the book "is a Guide and Healing to those who believe". Again, the function as a source of guidance is stressed. Further, this guidance is only apparent to "those who believe" (4144)

What do you think?

Ams

Peace ams.... you have touched a very important topic...i not sure if it has a simple answer......there is a lot of different aspects to ponder upon and to study them...

i am of opinion that if one is to follow the most of the available translations(if not any or all of them) to the letter that he would be pretty misguided......

btw.... "law la fussilat ayatuhu" should imo be translated as "why its messages or sayings are not distinctly or intelligibly expressed"....and not "detaily" or "explained in detail" as you have put it...

best wishes, Zlatan

Zlatan

peace to you as well warda

Which german translation do you use?

von Max Henning uberarbeitung und Einleitung von Murad Vilfried Hofmann

Thanks for reviving this thread..... not long after my posts on this topic, pressed by more urgent tasks and responsibilities(read by laziness, lack of planing, and disorganisation) i have stoped my learning of spanish and german by this method....starting from today i am going to correct this unconstructive behaviour....i am sure my response to you today would be in german had it happened that i had the strenght to persever and continue with my small and slow but constant learning progress during the past several months...however its not too late for me...neither for those not being familiar with arabic to start today and thus be able to read The God sent reading in the original language next year this season...

best wishes, zlatan

Wakas

(bump)

Personally, I find errors on an almost daily basis. Unfortunately.

unknownuser

If each of you translate quran according to your understanding (and perhaps according to one's ego) then what is the "TRUTH" of the original?

Regards,

Wakas

peace,

If each of you translate quran according to your understanding (and perhaps according to one's ego) then what is the "TRUTH" of the original?

If one reads 'al quran', one should note it demonstrates & recommends verification / truth-seeking procedures. Once they are applied, the answer you seek should become clearer.

Wakas

unknownuser

peace,

If each of you translate quran according to your understanding (and perhaps according to one's ego) then what is the "TRUTH" of the original?

If one reads 'al quran', one should note it demonstrates & recommends verification / truth-seeking procedures. Once they are applied, the answer you seek should become clearer.
Wakas

That was not my quesiton.
If one translates according to one's ego then what is the "truth" of the original? and therefore we can't agree on anything because your translation will be different to mine - and why should that be the case?
If I translate apples into apples and you decide to translate apples into oranges - Is the "truth" not distorted here?

Regards,

TheNabi

Salaam,

what is the "truth" of the original?

The one consistent with the signs friend. hmm

Is the "truth" distorted here?

I believe so.

Joe

unknownuser

Salaam,

what is the "truth" of the original?

The one consistent with the signs friend. hmm

Signs? Which signs? I don't understand, can you elaborate?

Regards,

TheNabi

Salaam,

Why all of them! wow

Joe

unknownuser

Salaam,

Why all of them! wow

Joe

Thanks for that "elaboration" "Gandalf" -)
You sure are a wizard -)

"ach nach kimbatulu"

Regards,

shuaib

salams guys,

i totally agree, and am equally dissatisfied with English translations.. what shocks me though is how many people are SATISFIED with just the English translations.

I mentioned this on another forum, that even Bismallah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem is wracked with Christian influences... translating it into grace and mercy which are COMPLETELY Christian ideas and the crux of their message.

May you all succeed in your endeavors to learn Arabic!

here's a link to another Quran translation.

http//tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/exposition.htm

zenje

Peace to all and sundry

I for one am very satisfied with the english translations, and will not be learning arabic anytime soon. Let me just point out, for those who missed it, the God is beyond language. Quran is merely a tool for 'bigger better' things.

Clarification >> This is my opinion (for all those who are in shock and awe. wink )

unknownuser

Maybe it's not just propblems in translation. The real problem could be the original Arabic text itself.

You are all trying to overcome the problems in muhammads teachings by blaming the translations when in fact it's muhammads original arabic text that is in error.

Luk 643 For a good tree bringeth not forth, corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

mquran

Maybe it's not just propblems in translation. The real problem could be the original Arabic text itself.

You are all trying to overcome the problems in muhammads teachings by blaming the translations when in fact it's muhammads original arabic text that is in error.

Yes, it certainly could be. Would you care to prove it if you know the language? If you don't, then maybe you should just admit that you're just a dogmatic religionist who can't see the wood for the trees.

The only way for guys like you to mount charges against al-quraan is by using EXTRA-quranic sources. That's very pathetic indeed.

unknownuser

The only way for guys like you to mount charges against al-quraan is by using EXTRA-quranic sources. That's very pathetic indeed.

By you guys, do you mean the ones who follow the true prophet, the Prince of Peace, Jesus.

I actually do quote some of muhammads handy work, but from the look of this thread even muslims have troubles following some of muhammads ungodly teachings.

unknownuser

I actually do quote some of muhammads handy work, but from the look of this thread even muslims have troubles following some of muhammads ungodly teachings.

Albion,

What you are saying is because you call these teachings muhammads they must be true. You offer no objective or rational evidence that these relate to the man.

I don't see why I should follow speculations attributed, for all I know it could be a christian at the time inventing these stories realising the superiority of the new emerging way of life. The power of church being threatened is a sufficient motive.

Instead, I prefer to follow the consistent message using my brain and validating my behaviour through a book that acts as a litmus test.

But, in your assertion it is apparently more of a case of "whatever a man wished that too he will believe". The hadithians believe in the nice stories and you in the horrible ones to justify your idol worship to jesus. You and the hadithians can't maintain a balance of independent thought as your thinking is severely corrupted by your ideologies.

Ofcourse, if you can offer any objective evidence that these statements were infact made by the Prophet and the Qur'an approves these then I am prepared to consider your position.

regards

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

We are to read the signs in the universe from the horizons tro within our Spirits/Minds. We verify if the reading is from the God by looking for contradiction. We recognize all of creation to be manifestations of the ONE God, this includes Jesus, no matter how much a human wants to idolize another REPORTED human. It is certainly the truth that mankind was shown an analogy and they took it incorrectly as literal. There is a great lesson iin that story when we are ready to stop differentiating between messengers and listen to the UNIFIED MESSAGE. Why fight over written books? Lets deal with the lessons that can be verified. Lets come to a common agreement about the One SOURCE.

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace everyone,

This is a very interesting thread, in my opinion.

In my view, no translation of the Quran is perfect/flawless. I think all translations of the Quran contain errors. And I believe that the meanings of many quranic words, get lost in translation. No matter how beautiful a painting is, the objects in the painting can never feel as real as natural objects. Similarly, an english translation of the Quran, can never convey the full meaning of quranic words.

Many classical arabic words in the Quran, seem to have no english equivalents. For example the quranic words "Allah", "sabr" and "sawm" seem to have no english equivalents. I think that if one wants to understand the full meaning of quranic words, then one has to use different study tools/resources.

I recommend using these study tools/resources

A concordance of the Quran (see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607032.msg359413#msg359413).
An arabic dictionary/lexicon of the Quran (e.g. Arabic-English lexicon by E.W. Lane).
A word for word Arabic-English translation of the Quran (see http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp).
A comparison of several/multiple quranic translations (See http//www.islamawakened.com/index.php/qur-an
A grammar of the arabic language (See this http//www.islamicbulletin.org/free_downloads/other/arabic_for_dummies.pdf).
A book about interpretation techniques/methods (e.g. a book about Hermeneutics).

And I recommend this post.

I'd also like to share a quote here

You said that when you translated the word ummy from arabic to english it means illiterate. It seems that you have used Modern Arabic dictionary to translate the quranic word ummy to english. But the fact is that the language of the Quran is not Modern Arabic. "Modern Arabic" is not the language of the Quran. The language of the Quran is Classical Arabic. There is a a huge difference between Modern Arabic and Classical Arabic. Therefore I think we should not use Modern Arabic dictionaries to translate Quranic words to english. In my opinion, we should only use Classical Arabic dictionaries when translating quranic words to english. Because the language of the Quran is Classical Arabic, not Modern Arabic. For example, if a man/woman is going to translate a greek book from greek to english, it is not a good idea to use a german dictionary when translating the greek book to english. If a man/woman wants to translate a greek book to english, then he/she should use a greek dictionary. Because the language of the greek book is greek, not german.

Hopefully, you will find the tips and advice, plus the link and the quote in this post useful/helpful.